5 replies to this topic

[Lis]

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There isn't a lot of research on this topic yet, but I just spent a few hours and found that there is definitely a link between celiac disease and mental disorders (like anxiety, depression, etc) due to a decreased blood flow to the brain. It would stand to reason that IBS would be similar, since lots of people with IBS also have food intolerances. My hunch is that IBS could both be caused by EDs and cause EDs. From personal experience, I've found that needing to follow a strict diet (no gluten, dairy or fructose for me) to help my IBS has led me to become too controlling with my food, although I don't believe I could be classified as having a full-blown ED. I obsess over my appearance, which for me focuses specifically on exercise and food. It makes a lot of sense to me that eating foods that block my body's ability to obtain nutrients from them would cause other non-stomach issues. So, you see, it's circular--IBS depletes my body of nutrients, which causes depression/anxiety and leads me toward EDs, which cause my IBS to flare up and deplete my body of nutrients ... Quite a vicious cycle. I'm planning on going to an integrative doctor shortly who can test me and see if I have any deficiencies due to my limited diet. My hope is that following my diet will eliminate the stomach & related problems, and supplementing whatever vitamins & minerals I'm lacking will eliminate the depression that leads me back into the vicious cycle. Fingers crossed!If you're interested, you might want to check out some of the articles (or abstracts) I just found (it's interesting but fairly scholarly):

• Depression, Anxiety, Panic (The Gluten File) - This is a summary of quite a bit of research, all in one place. I'd recommend starting here.
• Food Cravings, Obesity and Gluten Consumption (Dr. Ron Hoggan, Ed.D)
• Features of Eating Disorders in Patients with IBS (Tang TN, Toner BB, Stuckless N, Dion KL, Daplan AS, Ali A.)
• Depression and Gluten: Is Dietary Change Too Easy? (Dr. Vikki Petersen)
• Psychiatric Issues in Celiac Disease (Ron Hoggan)

Anyone else have experience with IBS/celiac disease and anxiety/depression/compulsive tendencies/EDs? I'd really love to learn more and figure this out!Lis

[twonK]

There isn't a lot of research on this topic yet, but I just spent a few hours and found that there is definitely a link between celiac disease and mental disorders (like anxiety, depression, etc) due to a decreased blood flow to the brain. It would stand to reason that IBS would be similar, since lots of people with IBS also have food intolerances. My hunch is that IBS could both be caused by EDs and cause EDs. From personal experience, I've found that needing to follow a strict diet (no gluten, dairy or fructose for me) to help my IBS has led me to become too controlling with my food, although I don't believe I could be classified as having a full-blown ED. I obsess over my appearance, which for me focuses specifically on exercise and food.

Hi Lis,I'm not entirely sure I've got the whole gist of your thoughts here but for me there is an absolutely certain relationship between my depression and IBS pain. When the IBS pain is bad, I blame myself. I can't not do it, it's almost like it's hardwired in there. I think I believe that it's my fault I "gave myself" IBS through years of untreated anxiety and depression. So for me when my IBS pain is severe, so is my depression. The minute the IBS pain alleviates (e.g. overnight or after a bathroom visit), my self-loathing ceases.Regarding diet, I did the caveman diet and stuck to it pretty faithfully. In retrospect, I don't really think it helped me find any safe or unsafe foods. IBS is just too dynamic and complex for that. Say you are just eating potatoes, salt and vegetable oil. Then say you add raw tomatoes and react badly. Your brain wants to go: "great, that's one in the 'no' column" but it's not that simple. Cooked tomatoes could be fine. It could be the amount. It could be that you try them again (raw) 2 weeks later and you're fine. I just don't think IBS is as diet-driven as a lot of people believe. I think it's inherently hard for humans to accept that they can't have control over the pain and so we look for reasons for the pain. Don't get me wrong - I know certain foods for certain people are reliably safe/unsafe. I'm just saying that IBS is multi-faceted and dynamic.

It makes a lot of sense to me that eating foods that block my body's ability to obtain nutrients from them would cause other non-stomach issues. So, you see, it's circular--IBS depletes my body of nutrients, which causes depression/anxiety and leads me toward EDs, which cause my IBS to flare up and deplete my body of nutrients ... Quite a vicious cycle.

Makes sense to me. My cycle is that I loathe myself for "giving myself" IBS when the pain is bad. That blame is strong and distressing and subsequently fuels the IBS pain, which intensifies, which increases the blame and so on. But yes, if you're diet is missing vital components then that could definitely affect the brain.

I'm planning on going to an integrative doctor shortly who can test me and see if I have any deficiencies due to my limited diet. My hope is that following my diet will eliminate the stomach & related problems, and supplementing whatever vitamins & minerals I'm lacking will eliminate the depression that leads me back into the vicious cycle. Fingers crossed!

Good luck with your plan. If you have IBS though then I don't think you will find "success", in any absolute sense. Same with the vitamins and depression IMO. What is the history with your depression if you don't mind me asking? Have you been professionally diagnosed and treated by a psychologist/psychiatrist? You might find more success via those routes.

Anyone else have experience with IBS/celiac disease and anxiety/depression/compulsive tendencies/EDs? I'd really love to learn more and figure this out!Lis

For the record I have IBS-C, GERD, OCD, major depression, anxiety and probably a whole bunch of other nasties I do not eat/drink fried food, spicy food, coffee, artificial preservatives currently. I eat small portions regularly.Cheers,Pete

[screeb]

"My cycle is that I loathe myself for "giving myself" IBS when the pain is bad. That blame is strong and distressing and subsequently fuels the IBS pain, which intensifies, which increases the blame and so on" says Twonk.I will loosely define anxiety as discontent as thinking badly of yourself or others. Since there is no one to blame for IBS, the feeling may turn into self-hate or guilt. The amygdala and anterior cingulate cortex(ACC) are directly activated by descending colon pain. The amygdala is the "fight or flight" brain site. When the two former brainsites are activated they decrease activity in the pre-frontal cortex,(PFC--the analytical part of the brain that by pain patterns determines if pain is escapable or inescapable). If inescapable, there is a top-down peristaltic shut-down which improves colon pain. The decrease in PFC activity decreases DA (dopamine) output which decreases ACC activity and decreasing neural activation of the brain, producing an excess of glutamate (GLUT), which causes descending colon pain. This feeds into the ACC and amygdala, blocking the top-down PFC peristaltic shut down, which causes proximal colon activity and peristalsis. With me, I run around like a chicken with its head cut off until I lie down and notice that my distal colon is contracting. Then I use my traction device (see my blog) and I empty my stomach and the anxiety goes away. One would think that anxiety disorders are caused by inescapable pain, but that isn't true. The cause in unknown.

[twonK]

NT10 - bedbathstoreintentional suboptimality

"My cycle is that I loathe myself for "giving myself" IBS when the pain is bad. That blame is strong and distressing and subsequently fuels the IBS pain, which intensifies, which increases the blame and so on" says Twonk.I will loosely define anxiety as discontent as thinking badly of yourself or others. Since there is no one to blame for IBS, the feeling may turn into self-hate or guilt. The amygdala and anterior cingulate cortex(ACC) are directly activated by descending colon pain. The amygdala is the "fight or flight" brain site. When the two former brainsites are activated they decrease activity in the pre-frontal cortex,(PFC--the analytical part of the brain that by pain patterns determines if pain is escapable or inescapable). If inescapable, there is a top-down peristaltic shut-down which improves colon pain. The decrease in PFC activity decreases DA (dopamine) output which decreases ACC activity and decreasing neural activation of the brain, producing an excess of glutamate (GLUT), which causes descending colon pain. This feeds into the ACC and amygdala, blocking the top-down PFC peristaltic shut down, which causes proximal colon activity and peristalsis. With me, I run around like a chicken with its head cut off until I lie down and notice that my distal colon is contracting. Then I use my traction device (see my blog) and I empty my stomach and the anxiety goes away. One would think that anxiety disorders are caused by inescapable pain, but that isn't true. The cause in unknown.

I will loosely define anxiety as discontent as thinking badly of yourself or others.

That's incorrect. Anxiety is not necessarily to do with thinking badly in that way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety

Since there is no one to blame for IBS, the feeling may turn into self-hate or guilt.

That's the thing though. I spent many years blaming myself, beating myself up in a mixture of OCD and depression I didn't know I was in. I firmly believe that that triggered my IBS. Therefore IBS _is_ my fault. I can't prove it but it's what I believe...

When the two former brainsites

can you explain what these are?

PFC--the analytical part of the brain that by pain patterns determines if pain is escapable or inescapable). If inescapable, there is a top-down peristaltic shut-down which improves colon pain. ...

where did you get this info? I'm intrigued.

One would think that anxiety disorders are caused by inescapable pain, but that isn't true. The cause in unknown.

Well not entirely. If anxiety & depression are in your family, you are more likely to suffer from it than someone who's family has no history. Also, traumatic events are known to be a cause of anxiety based conditions such as PTSD and phobias. Also, unpredictable pain (e.g. occurring at random intervals) has been shown to be far more anxiety-provoking than predictable pain and can lead to learned helplessness.Cheers,Pete

[screeb]

The two afore-mentioned brainsites are the Amygdala, which is involved with fear and anger. If one electrically stimulates the AMG in a cat, its hair stands on end and it hisses. The anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) is associated with Brodman's area 25 and directs memory recall in specific areas of the neocortex, if sufficiently stimulated. If poorly stimulated, it globalizes activation of the entire neoocortex, and increases the overall oxidative metabolism of the brain,leading to the increased output of glutamate, which sensitizes the distension of the distal colon.There are two sources from which I got the IBS effects on PFC."Brain networks underlying perceptual habituation to repeated aversive visceral stimuli in patients with irritable bowel syndrome." 2009, Neuroimage 47(3):952-960."Co-occuring anxiety influences patterns of brain acitvity in depression."2010, Cogn Affect Behav Neurosci.10(1):141-156.The articles basically say that after a year of IBS symptoms, there is a failure to implement top-down processing by PFC, (resulting in globalization of the neocortex--associated with depression) due to increased activation of ACC and AMG. What causes ACC activation? Globalization causes increased sensitivity of the descending colon, I rock side to side on my descending colon producing pain that projects to and activates the ACC. The increased ACC causes depression and globalization, restarting the negative feedback loop.

[Cheryl1967]

It is true about the reaction in the gut...simply put I read that when acetylcholine is high causing the painful spasms epinephrine, which is the "fight or flight" neurotransmitter is then released to relax the gut. So the anxiety related to IBS is not "all in your head" also I have read many an article that acetylcholine causes depression which is why many of the older antidepressants like the tricyclics have an anticholinergic in them. I also read that serotonin is actually higher in the gut with IBS so perhaps it is more localized rather than circulating throughout your body and norepinephrine which is the "calm down" neurotransmitter the opposite of epinephrine is low.