10 replies to this topic

[katiebabe]

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Hi all,My question is, can post infectious ibs be linked to later developing neuropathic pains?After I developed post ifect ibs one year ago with severe symptoms like pain everytime I would walk being my most severe 'stomach still efecting me daily but I'm coping a bit better' anyway six months later I developed 'burning pain' in my middle-upper back. This came on gradually until it was happening everyday. It feels like muscle/organ irritation or something- but after an mri which showed a normal scan and research I've learnt burning pains can be linked to the nervous system.The problem has only seemed to get worse and I'm often waking in the night to go for a 'wee'-excuse me and my whole back is aching badly-not burning but aching like it wud if you have flu. And just over the last month on and off I'm getting 'like chest pain but in the middle to upper back- feels like trapped wind,can be sharp,hurts to twist around or turn over in bed. Also feels a bit like someones sitting on your back? Very difficult to describe.Anyway my question is as the bowel is linked with the nerves and signals and ur brain etc has this been linked in the past? I went to the docs about the new pain as my gastro app isn't till next month and the doc sent me away with neuropathic epilepsy tablets which have horrible side effects. He said my body seems to be giving me a hard time and he hasn't seen anyone with this as severe as me! Made me feel bloody great!I just want to know how to make it stop or reverse itself. I've tried lots of relaxation techniques but nothing works. The burning comes on when I am engaged in activity- totally concentrating on whatever I'm doing so how can I possibly by thinking and making the pain happen- I don't get it?Thw doc explained how that's not the case and the nerves are causing the pain subconsiously 'if this is even the problem!'Has others suffered from this? Have you overcome it?? Let me know the secret please I'm desperate I'm open to anything. I also see a physio who tells me my tummy and back is in spasm. The first six is months of being poorly I most of the time sat up in bed with very little exercise as I got in so much stomach pain and I'm worried I've caused this issue myself by nerve damage.Thanks for reading, can anyone explain this is more detail? It seems doctors only tell you how to try manage the pain and not how to overcome it. kate

[Cheryl1967]

Someone else posted in here about the pain in the upper back. Before I has IBS a couple of years ago I was taking Benadryl for allergies for about three months straight. I did not know that Benadryl was an anticholinergic and I started having weird symptoms so I lookid it up on the internet. I abruptly stopped taking the Benadryl and suffered what is known as "cholinergic rebound" One of the things I was experiencing was a orrible burning sensation and pain/really contracted muscles in my back near my shoulder blades. I discovered that the vagus nerve is directly effected by acetylcholine which is the neurotransmitter that is elevated in IBS. I looked up about muscles controlled by the vagus nerve and sure enough those muscles in the back near the shoulder blade are effected. Just as the acetylcholine causes spasms in the gut it also causes muscle contractions along the route of the vagus nerve. The outer part of the ears and the muscles that run alongside both side of the throat are effected as well. Elevated levels of acetylcholine can cause a raspy voice as well because the vagus nerve controls the voice box. Acetylcholine is also responsible for body temperature regulation (which is why many of us experience sweating before a BM or during spasms and it control the oil glands in our skin. Since this started my face and hair have become excessively oily Any sudden changes in room/outside temperature effects the release of acetylcholine. If you look up about acetylcholine and the vagus nerve and muscles that are controlled by it you will see why this is happening. I hope this helps =)

[Cheryl1967]

KATIEBABE!!!!!!! It was actually YOUR post that I answered about the back pain!!

[Puppy3D]

Especially PI-IBS is organic disease. You had activation of your immunesystem. People with IBS have more immunecells and inflammation than healthy people. These Immunecells release substances into the gut which irritates gut nerves,make them sensible,also inflammation alteres motility of the gut.Your pain is cause of irritiate gut nerves. http://www.scienceda...9141950.htmkeep inflammation on low level. Mastcell blocker, boswellia, mesalazine is a way .Some probiotics also have antiinflammation effect. keep oxiadtive stress low. Avoid milk and wheat, even if there are no allergies. switch to rice. IBS is organic disease , but colonoscopy cannot show because this not useful for this type of inflammation.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19438846

[Kathleen M.]

I don't know if there is a good, do it for a few months and never have to do anything ever again, so these may still be management rather than it is overcome and you never have to do anything about it again.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20090445 is a small study, it does give the dose ranges of fish oil that can help reduce the pain, and was used up to 19 months in the study, which is really long term for a lot of research.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/12/031201065814.htm mentions some drugs used and a researcher that may be one to see what their papers say.

[screeb]

Use a C-PAP machine with C-Flex+ (Newer model),and try to get some sleep. With C-Flex+, you don't use the crural diaphragm to breathe, (see my blog), and this may not set off the upper abdominal pain. How you get the C-Flex machine is another question. UK's nationalized medicine may require a sleep apnea test for recieving the C-PAP. Otherwise you might have to get it by other means.

[katiebabe]

Guys u've lost me! There seems to be that many theories I don't know which one is me and this condition, all I know is that the more I try do the more my back burns. Then it just intensifies and the whole way round my ribs through to my stomach gets sore and feels inflamed. I've just got home now from slowely walking round the town for 4hours and carrying a few bits of shopping- simple things like this is hard work.I'm fine to start off with and just the longer I'm moving the worse it gets. I'm now in so much pain, my back burns so intensly on the bus I can't wait to get home and lie out flat,its not right.However thanku all for ur replies. It really does feel like nerve issues or something, its just muscular burning 'in the back anyway' its got into such a pattern 'doing it most days unless I hardly do anything that it makes me want to just sit and rest all the time but I refuse tooCheryl how can I stop this happening if that is the case?Screeb -are u suggesting using this machine through the night and it will stop the pain in the day? xx

[screeb]

SSC (selective spinal cord) cooling is a quantum physiological change that allowed for the natural selection of larger human brains. Essentially with SSC cooling, adrenaline secreted during exercise causes an increase in IVC splanchnic vein flow to the liver, where it causes a vascular waterfall that blocks the flow of the femoral vein to the heart such that it must take an alternate channel to the heart via the IVVP (Internal vertebral venous plexus). This causes the IVVP to fill until it closes a valve in a brain sinus that causes a jugular dump of CBF (cerebral blood flow), rather than going down the E(External)VVP. The dump sets off a neural network that causes a transport of BAT (Brown adipose tissue) via the muscular contraction of the shoulder haunches. This is the upper back pain. It injects blood into the IVVP at the lumbar level going up the IVVP, repeating the cycle.Somatosensory lesions to the hindlimb region altered responses to mechanical stimulation in the presence of experimentally-induced inflammation, but did not attenuate the inflammation-induced paw volume changes or the level of pain affect. This demonstrates the presence of pain affect in the absence of somatosensory processing, by inflammatory pain. In the case of projecting crural diaphragm pain, the above may mean that when the crural diaphragm pain is decreased, the affect of the somatosensory cortex on the shoulder haunches (causing the vascular waterfall), is less present, (neither are inflammatory).This means the hindlimb pain caused by walking, when combined with the inflammatory pain from the colon, shifts that pain level of the SI to more sensitive, that causes a transport of BAT via the muscular contraction of the shoulder haunches to recycle the vascular waterfall. The decrease in crural diaphragm pain projecting to the SI (with the C-PAP machine), shifts the pain level to less sensitive. I.E., it decreases back spasms while being applied during the day or night, at the time of application.

[TVgirl]

Oh my gosh this thread has lost me also. I find your post interesting because I am suffering back pain.....horrid back pain!!! The muscles mostly down the right side of my back are chronically tense and they tighten and burn with increased activity. I feel better with rest and thfn when i do stuff my back just burns and hurts. I have fone extensive physiotherapy, few chiropractor treatments as well as massage therapy. I feel i have improved compared to a year ago so i am not worsening. The thing with me is i hurt my back at work operating a cart i push and bend on and it was a jerking pain. I thought nothing of it but noticed my back hurting and hurting. Doc diagnosed me with a sprain in mid back. But the sprain should have healed in 6-8 weeks but it didnt. Now it is almost a year later and i think it is related to sometjing elsr. I never considered a relationship to my IBS though. But the pain you describe sounds just like mine. I find at work i have to use ice packs to get through my shift. I go for massages or my husband massages for me which helps relax things. Naproxyn i take (aleve) when it is bad. I hate taking meds!! I also have to be very careful with my posture and ensure i exercise. I think the med you might be refering to is gabapentin??!? I have nevet tried iy. But i wonder if it is all connected somehow...the ibs and back pain.

[TVgirl]

Sorry for spelling errors ....typing on the tiniest keyboard on my phone.

[katiebabe]

Hi tv girl so sorry for my late reply I've been trying to keep off here.I was glad to read ur post and find ur dealing with a similar situation.Yeh the tablets he gave me was gabapentin.The last few weeks I have tried to attack the burning back pain head on by working longer shift- working way into the afternoon when its usually worse.I've found some days its not as bad as others. Its so weird I find doing repetitive things makes it ten times worse if its alredy there.I feel like its deffo nerve related.and ibs is all linked to nerve problems-signals from the brain- oversensitivity etc.If you would like to talk more my email is...Katiedoubleyou@hotmail.co.uk:-) xx