neomycin/bacterial overgrowth continued/part 2
Posted 24 February 2001 - 12:24 AM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 12:34 AM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 01:44 AM
I wholeheartedly agree.quote:I know this is a confusing issue when there are people who are posting bad information(ie, Island Girl)
This doesn't prove you had BO believe it or not. Neomycin could conceivably deaden the breath test response in anyone who had any H2-producing bacteria.quote:My result was normal.
This is correct, but 1) did they do antroduodenal manometry and find a problem with your Phase III? 2) Usually, they give you erthromycin and see if that induces Phase III. It does in healthy folks but not in those with pseudo-obstructionCould they be testing the a non-IBS crowd? It's hard for me believe because not having Phase III is a motility disorder of mega proportions. It is not IBS; it's pseudo-obstruction. People who don't have Phase III usually cannot eat at all and must live on either tube feedings or intravenous feedings.quote:Once again unknown but they believe it has to do with your Phase III contractions.
Constipation I don't get. But it should cause a lot more. Malabsorption for one. And that usually leads to anemia, which leads to fatigue, but I doubt it could fix your fatigue that quickly and were you ever diagnosed with anemia?quote:He also claims the BO causes diarrhea and constipation.
Ditto.quote:He also said in theory that probiotics can make the matter worse.
First, what exactly was the result numerically? Second, the burping could be related to the esophagus (and LES) and not the stomach. Do you know how well your LES works?quote:He had me do a repeat study after 4 days off of my med. I was shocked to see that the result was normal study. Does this make sense to you?
This is a normal high value in labs who do the test right. Must be your gas was mainly CO2 or you had really bad overgrowth along the whole tract. Do you know what the area under the curve was? [This message has been edited by flux (edited 02-23-2001).]quote:You also asked my peak H2 level on the first breath test. It was 80.
Posted 24 February 2001 - 03:06 AM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 04:56 AM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 04:59 AM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 05:05 AM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 01:14 PM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 01:24 PM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 04:18 PM
Oh, it almost certainly was. There is way more bacteria in the colon than in the small bowel, even when bacterially infested.quote:why can't this gas reduction be from the removal of gas causing bacteria in the colon?
I actually tend to doubt that BO in the small gut can cause any significant amount of gas from what they specifically produce in the small gut unless it were really badly overgrown.However, what I just realized is they should cause malabsorption and the malabsorbed sugars can cause major gas in the colon.However, I'm still curious to know what the area under the curve was when Pete said his peak H2 was 80. That peak is in the colon and is perfectly normal. No way it could cause 100 passes of gas a day. So my guess: gas must have been mainly CO2 from the colon either from a lot of active CO2 producing bacteria or from having a normal amount of CO2 bacteria feasting on an extra load of sugars from the small intestine that couldn't have digested them properly due to interference of the BO in the small gut.squote:I'm not sure if the only way to have excessive gas from bacteria is to have that bacteria in the small intestine, does anyone know?
Some strains do produce gas, but they would that wherever they are located if given enough to feed on.quote:As for the probiotics, why would they cause gas if situated in the small intestine?
2 hours is too short a study. Should have been at least 6 hours.quote:believe it was unable to access phase III.
Really? Were they using the clunky water-perfused tubes? I don't trust that method anyway.quote:This test is absolutely torture.
Yes, that's it. Sounds good.quote:I believe it said t-1/2 of stomach after 58 minutes. Do you know what that means? Does it mean that 1/2 of my stomach emptied after one hour?
I don't think there is any way to predict how erythromycin should affect the gut. Dose is small and it's similar to neomycin I think. But there is no real proof you have a problem with MMCs. Not having phase III should make mucho ill.Also, baclofen has been tried to fix problems with reflux and there is botox, too.quote:Do you think the erythromycin is a reasonable treatment option or do you think I would be better off with Imitrex or zelmac(when it comes available).
Zantac (ranitidine) speeds up stomach emptying! See www3.infotrieve.com/medline/infotrieve/detail.asp?med9496+426645+"(ranitidine)+AND+(gastroparesis)"[This message has been edited by flux (edited 02-24-2001).]quote:Also if prevacid was delaying my stomach, shouldn't zantac(600mg a day) do the same thing?
Posted 24 February 2001 - 10:28 PM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 10:30 PM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 10:32 PM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 10:32 PM
Posted 24 February 2001 - 11:58 PM
That is just what the drug does. It's a cholinergic agonist (in addition to being an H2 antagonist).quote:How could zantac speed up emptying?
I had the information mangled in my head It's botulism toxin, but it's used to treat achalasia, not GERD or reflux.quote:Also what is botox?
Did you ever try titrating the dose? Start it very small, breaking up the tablets if need be. Then working your way up. No guarantees, just an idea to cheat on the side effect problem.quote:I tried baclofen. It helped a little but not enough to deal with the side effects. Made me groggy.
But you haven't tried it yet, so yeah it would do it a person who really had this problem (well, that is the hope) I'd want evidence of a problem with your MMCs before giving it. Say your real problem is the odd case where your bacteria in your colon changed. Probably it won't help that.Another option is octeotride, but again you want a good study before doing that.[quote[My gas was much worse when I ate sugar. Does this piece of information help your second theory?[/quote]Possibly, but nothing beats a good clean study of the MMCs. Also, you could get breath testing done for individual sugars.quote:Why else would erythromycin delay recurrence of BO by 5 to 6 months?
It probably won't. It cuts back on histamine, not on acid directly. The Prevacid is more potent in that regard.quote:One more for you. The zantac doesn't seem to be controlling the acid like prevacid did.
Perhaps reflux from the duodenum into the stomach, but I don't see that happening at the other end of the stomach. That's got be something to do with esophagus or its sphincters.quote:In your opinion could a problem with Phase III cause reflux/and or burping?
Posted 25 February 2001 - 12:09 AM
Ohhhh, okay...now it makes more sense. I was under the impression that the bacteria in the small intestine in BO somehow were directly responsible for the excessive gas (which I understand is a major symptom of BO). So, actually the BO causes malabsorbtion which then causes gas. More complicated than I thought.quote:However, what I just realized is they should cause malabsorption and the malabsorbed sugars can cause major gas in the colon.
I take it this is why doctors don't usually give h2 breath tests to people with IBS like symptoms.flux, when is your editorial on the Cedar's BO treatment coming out? you're behind schedule.quote:Not having phase III should make mucho ill.
Posted 25 February 2001 - 10:37 PM
Posted 26 February 2001 - 12:44 AM
Posted 26 February 2001 - 12:55 AM