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Took20...the Grapefruit Seed Extract(GSE) works for me 2


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#301 Kathleen M.

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 03:03 PM

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I've been fine with them when I've taken probitoics with them in them, but I know some people seem to have a lot of trouble with them. I wanted to mention it because we've had people here with lots of issues with the ones with FOS in them. But like I said, they work fine for me.I think it is one of those things that has good points and bad points like most everything else in the world. Nothing is ever 100% good or 100% bad, and it is often hard to know where inbetween the two extremes the truth lies.K.
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#302 Talissa

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 03:12 PM

quote:
Nothing is ever 100% good or 100% bad, and it is often hard to know where inbetween the two extremes the truth lies.
I don't want to sound too mushy, K, but sometimes your wisdom and ability to articulate your thoughts just blows me away... I'm glad you're here. Posted Image
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>Post-infectious IBS-D(giardia/flagyl)...100% normal w/ Pro-Bio Inulin Free probiotic & metamucil, no drugs, exercise. Can now eat & drink anything without a problem. KOW.
>"subjects who are given antibiotics are more than 3 times as likely to report more bowel problems 4 months later than controls." American Journal of Gastroenterology, Jan 02

#303 harpy

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 11:46 PM

Yeah, Cats, I don't have a problem with that- I figure if the transitory S. boulardii helps the other probiotics I'm taking to get a good start, then it will have served its full function and I'll then discontinue it and continue on with the natives.And I still say it can't be any less likely that a pill full of bugs can infect me nicely than that a handful of stray nasties can plague me. as it were. <grin>Besides, I'm definitely continuing to improve, a little better every week. I'm trying to make use of prebiotics with the evening probiotics, too, just to help them get going.Speaking of which... did someone here say using FOS was controversial?Thanks,Carla[QUOTE]Originally posted by Catsdeadnow:--------------------------BTW: Florastor's Pros are also temporary bowel residents ... not my opinion:Florastor Extra Strength 250mg capsules (50/bottle) $37.50 with FREE shipping. The active ingredients in Florastor: Saccharomyces boulardii lyo, acts as a temporary flora to protect your intestinal tract and keep your intestines functioning well.---------------------------

#304 harpy

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 11:54 PM

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Originally posted by hanna:Re probiotics. In my opinion they work better when you go off chlorinated water completely. It makes sense because dose'nt chlorine kill bacteria and would it not also kill the good ones?
Makes sense to me, Hanna... that's why I stopped drinking chlorinated water after realizing that if I was taking my pet rats off it for that reason, maybe I should do the same for me! Posted Image I sure don't miss the taste!Carla

#305 harpy

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 12:00 AM

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Originally posted by Talissa:Harpy/Carla...But I really miss the carrot, apple, spinach, cucumber combo...so good...
Oh! I've never added cucumber to that blend. I'll have to file that away for future experiments! Thanks, Tal. Posted ImageMy fave is carrots, granny smith apples, pineapple, spinach, ginger, lemon (peel, too)Can't wait to get back to it!Carla

#306 harpy

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 12:13 AM

Stokes- Yes, I used tea bags at first, but it was expensive and my local hfs sells hundreds of herbs in bulk, by the ounce, so I guessed at amounts, jiggled a bit, etc. and came up with a bulk blend that I just dump in 1/4 c. for each batch, then pour it through a strainer when done steeping. Down and dirty, and not nearly as much trouble as it seems at first.C. diff is Clostridium difficile, the nasty bug that erupted in my G. I. tract after a course of Clindamycin for a tooth abscess and cellulitis.One of the things I like about this board is that many of the members here have shucked the victim thing and declared all out war on this whole invasion of the good bug snatchers. Carla
quote:
Originally posted by Stokes:Harpy- I like your idea of mixing the herbal teas and will definitely try that. Do you just use tea bags and steep several at the same time?Excuse my ignorance but what is C diff.? And are you saying that you have not eaten any fruits or vegetables in four months??? That must be challenging to put it mildly!Time for me to stop kidding around with myself and take some action.Stokes


#307 harpy

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 12:36 AM

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Originally posted by Talissa:Still other patients may have a condition indistinguishable from colitis, with cramps, diarrhea, urgency, mucus and variable amounts of blood (33)..Lastly the most severe and even devastating CD infection can develop into ‘pseudomembranous enterocolitis’
That would be me. Pseudomembranous enterocolitis was the diagnosis my doctor made after my pharmacist made me call him when it truly seemed like I had just shed my 20 odd feet of intestinal lining... when they say variable amounts of blood... holy cow... those were some scary, awful times, and I've had five kids- two with some pretty impressive hemorrhaging. I'm much less inclined to complain about the pain and bloating now... just trying to resolve it as best I can. <sigh> Btw, I think the fatalities in PMC are mostly among the hospitalized very elderly, with multiple problems and weak immune systems. At least that's what the stats looked like to me. I needed a little reassurance at first, I was so terrified by what was happening to me, and what I was reading.Going for a ride on the silver bullet in May to see how things are improving... oh, la...Carla

#308 harpy

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 12:50 AM

Re: FOS- my question has been nicely answered by all. Thanks for the variety and aspects to ponder.Carla

#309 harpy

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 01:02 AM

No, only two months... sigh... I started abiding by Heather's recommended emergency diet after my doctor put me on Flagy for the C. diff/PMC and it all came back again afterwards.For two months I pretty much just ate rice, rice chex, japanese rice crackers, etc, until I stopped being so violently sick every time I ate anything. the only fruit I could handle was applesauce and raw apples, peeled. Only veggies were sweet potatoes and carrots, peeled and steamed. I'm now adding potatoes, squash and canned green beans, and doing ok with them, as long as I don't yum them up with any fat. I can eat avocado and raw jicama along with rice, and they don't seem to bother me at all, as long as I really chew everything well. I dip the jicama sticks in fat free zesty italian dressing, and it seems like such a splurge! Joy! <rolling eyes>
quote:
Originally posted by Stokes:And are you saying that you have not eaten any fruits or vegetables in four months??? That must be challenging to put it mildly!Stokes


#310 Talissa

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 12:31 PM

Hey Yewtaw gal, sorry to read you were struck by the p. colitis. Scary stuff. But really glad you've got it under control...with that diet, exactly how skinny are you now?? Posted Image My first year after giardia/flagyl, I became a walking skeleton...If you are a bit on the thin side rt now, I'm proof its only temporary. I'm still a thin person, just not bad enough for peeps to start rumors of anorexia!! But hey, you've got jicama, be glad for simple pleasures... T--------------------------------Hanna, re: natural antibiotics, I thought I'd go into the details of grapefruit seed extract(GSE), since it's the thread's (original) topic. Posted Image It has helped me with food sensitivites probably due to not only its antibacterial action, but also anti-inflammatory...Acc to Dr Leo Galland, its safe to take long-term for chronic infections (like what can occur with intestinal inflammation & hyperpermeability)...More direct answers to your Qs~"GSE has been shown to be effective in treating hundreds of different organisms including: Shigella, Staphylococcus, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Giardia lamblia, Diplococcus pneumoniae, Haemophilus influenzae, Mycobacterium species, Campylobacter, Candida albicans, Escherichia coli, Streptococcus, Salmonella, Klebsiella, Proteus, Cholera, Chlamydia trachomatis, Trichomonas vaginalis, Legionella pneumoniae, Helicobacter pylori, Herpes simplex 1, Influenza A2, and measles virus. GSE has been shown to kill both gram-negative and gram-positive strains of bacteria.......In much the same way that synthetic antibiotics can kill off the naturally occurring flora which exists in one's body, so might GSE. Consequently, if this herb is to be used long-term in the treatment of a chronic infection, supplemental acidophilus may need to be taken. However, while one study found that GSE significantly inhibited E. coli, another normal inhabitant of the GI tract, it left the important and beneficial Bifidobacteria unchanged, and only slightly reduced the Lactobacilli species."http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T223917.html>>Some sites claim the mechanism of action ag pathogens, but not the beneficial bacteria, is due to its ability to normalize the pH level of the intestinal tract--not too acidic, not too alkaline. The pathogens don't thrive w/ proper pH, whereas the probiotics do...but I can't find any research to support this theory..."..."With the aid of scanning transmission electron microscopy (STEM), the mechanism of GSE's antibacterial activity was revealed. It was evident that GSE disrupts the bacterial membrane and liberates the cytoplasmic contents within 15 minutes after contact even at more dilute concentrations."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...l=pubmed_docsum---------------------------------------The mechanism of Berberine is really interesting, though, so it deserves honorable mention here...Berberine "appears to work by staining microbes to be targets for macrophages (large immune cells that 'eat' pathogens) and by preventing microbes from attaching to cells."http://www.ei-resource.org/anti-bacterial.aspThe ABOVE link has exc info on several other natural antibacterials.Tal
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>Post-infectious IBS-D(giardia/flagyl)...100% normal w/ Pro-Bio Inulin Free probiotic & metamucil, no drugs, exercise. Can now eat & drink anything without a problem. KOW.
>"subjects who are given antibiotics are more than 3 times as likely to report more bowel problems 4 months later than controls." American Journal of Gastroenterology, Jan 02

#311 catsdeadnow

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 02:05 PM

http://mmbr.asm.org/cgi/reprint/67/3/429.pdf

#312 Noguts

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 03:40 PM

Hello GSE Threadsters, Day 6, no improvements on the Bactrim, 4 more to go, then I will resort to a few days of the GSE, and then just full on with the probiotics....just when I thought I was completely confused about probiotics, well thats when I stumbled upon something down under...... http://jds.fass.org/cgi/reprint/83/4/894.pdf#search='do%20yogurt%20cultures%20colonizes%20the%20gut'

#313 Talissa

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 08:35 AM

Hey ng, thx for the update. Patience is the key, eh? And thx for the article. That ole problem of keeping added probiotic strains alive in yogurt, w/ the sugar fermentation...but then again, they seemed to present a solution. And the article is from 2000, advances have surely been made...But then again, it may not matter if the strains are "alive". Here's the article from last year, it mentions the problem of adding probiotics to yogurt~2/2004 - "Probiotics, the bacteria thought to help gut health disorders, allergies and even some forms of cancer, contain immune system-stimulating DNA, which makes them just as effective when inactivated as when consumed as live microorganisms in dairy products, say US researchers. The findings, reported in this month’s Gastroenterology, offer considerable potential for food makers previously restricted to adding bacteria to fermented foods like yoghurt......The scientists say that the beneficial, anti-inflammatory activities seen with the inactivated probiotics could be the product of the innate immune system, the body’s instant response to invasion by pathogens. "http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/news-b...biotics-dead-orHere's an amazing commentary on probiotics for IBD published in GUT that touches on the -dead or alive- topic, and is extremely interesting. The authors are anything but novices in re: to probiotics and gut flora~http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/53/5/620THIS is extremelly interesting from the above. I think it highlights the trap of painting the probiotics immune-modulating effects into black & whites.It may also explain why the P reuteri helped with the bloating in my case(yes, I'm bloating again a bit w/o it Posted Image ). It's also why I'm going to start taking it again, despite the studies that showed it stimulated proinflammatory IL12...acc to the authors, its a weak influence, while it also INHIBITS dendritic cell activation--which may? be more important..."There has recently been much interest in the function of dendritic cells (DC) in controlling gut immune activity. DC act as the switch that determines the delicate balance between Th1 and Th2 immunity, as well as tolerance (Th3)...Different species of lactobacillus exert different DC activation patterns and the complexity of such interactions is exemplified by demonstration that Lactobacillus reuteri, a poor inducer of IL-12, is capable of inhibiting DC activation by other Lactobacillus species.22 The threshold of bacterial concentration necessary to induce cytokine production may be different for proinflammatory cytokines IL-12/TNF and anti-inflammatory/regulatory cytokine IL-10, permitting fine modulation of the immune response.22"The more we learn....
_____________________
>Post-infectious IBS-D(giardia/flagyl)...100% normal w/ Pro-Bio Inulin Free probiotic & metamucil, no drugs, exercise. Can now eat & drink anything without a problem. KOW.
>"subjects who are given antibiotics are more than 3 times as likely to report more bowel problems 4 months later than controls." American Journal of Gastroenterology, Jan 02

#314 Talissa

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:45 AM

OK then, maybe it wasn't stopping the P reuteri that changed the bloating status. It may be I'm adjusting to the new probiotics and its just a temporary thing...OR, it was actually stopping the Jarro Dophilus EPS. There are plenty of good benefits from taking L reuteri, but no studies that I can find include reducing bloating.The probiotics that HAVE been shown to reduce bloating incl~L plantarumB infantisL casei...which are all in the JD EPS...this is confusing...All I know is I took JD EPS for a long time w/o seeing a diff in bloating, only after adding in the Florastor did I see an effect...So, I'm going to just take all of them. I ought to be able to do the triathlon with all these good bugs!!T-
_____________________
>Post-infectious IBS-D(giardia/flagyl)...100% normal w/ Pro-Bio Inulin Free probiotic & metamucil, no drugs, exercise. Can now eat & drink anything without a problem. KOW.
>"subjects who are given antibiotics are more than 3 times as likely to report more bowel problems 4 months later than controls." American Journal of Gastroenterology, Jan 02

#315 hanna

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 11:03 AM

Tal.Thank you for your post re natural antibacterials and how they work and the links in that post. Your posts are the most informational and interesting to read. And I appreciate it all. Posted ImageI will read all the info on the links later, for now just skimmed through it. Chronic shortage of time and energy with me, a side kick of ibs I presume.

#316 Talissa

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 05:59 PM

Hi guys, Hope everyone's doing fine & had a good wkd...any more updates? It's too soon for any feedback from me & the bucket of probiotics I'm shoveling down...although I can feel some changes going on...New news on the feacal infusions front from australia--it looks like Dr Borody is taking international calls/emails again...You can read abt it on the C Diff bb...He's also going to be doing a "talk" on using this for crohn's patients in NYC~http://www.cdiffsupport.com/phpBB/viewforu...659e8ac38f55365...I'd be very interested in this if only my DH weren't so incredibly gassy Posted Image
_____________________
>Post-infectious IBS-D(giardia/flagyl)...100% normal w/ Pro-Bio Inulin Free probiotic & metamucil, no drugs, exercise. Can now eat & drink anything without a problem. KOW.
>"subjects who are given antibiotics are more than 3 times as likely to report more bowel problems 4 months later than controls." American Journal of Gastroenterology, Jan 02

#317 jomo569

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 08:19 PM

Talissa,I was wondering how long you have been taking Grapefruit Seed Extract and why you are taking it?Thanks!

#318 Talissa

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 04:26 AM

Hey jomo, Wow, I guess you don't want to read this entire thread, eh? Posted Image Actually, the first page would probably answer your questions...short answers, I've been taking the grapefruit seed ext capsules since around Christmas. I take them because I'm low on beneficial bacteria which when I had them, they helped keep pathogens at bay. This way I help the probiotics I'm taking out. While I was hoping it'd allow me to stop needing to take fiber, it's helped me with food sensitivites. Can only guess that the indirect/direct? lowering of inflammation has allowed the digestive enzymes to once again be produced and do their thing...Here's a crohn's case where the patient had to take antibiotics for 2 years to rid himself of the CD~ http://www.satevepost.org/issues/2004/0304...t73701034.shtmlHopefully, because my inflammation is less severe then crohn's, the GSE will work long term as well. IMO, it's much safer than antibiotics...I've definitely seen more of a diff using it than other natural anti's.Am REALLY glad I have the GSE now because we haven't had running water in 2 days here now...oy...it's disgusting! Paradise. yeh.Tal
_____________________
>Post-infectious IBS-D(giardia/flagyl)...100% normal w/ Pro-Bio Inulin Free probiotic & metamucil, no drugs, exercise. Can now eat & drink anything without a problem. KOW.
>"subjects who are given antibiotics are more than 3 times as likely to report more bowel problems 4 months later than controls." American Journal of Gastroenterology, Jan 02

#319 Kathleen M.

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 01:42 PM

In case it takes awhile for people to see it, and since a lot of the discussion on this thread is about probiotics, Jeff opened up a new forum to discuss probiotics. http://ibsgroup.org/eve/forums/a/frm/f/252105322It'd be cool to see some good conversations over there.K.
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#320 Talissa

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 08:14 AM

Thx K. That's a great addition to the bb, along w/ the SIBO forum.
_____________________
>Post-infectious IBS-D(giardia/flagyl)...100% normal w/ Pro-Bio Inulin Free probiotic & metamucil, no drugs, exercise. Can now eat & drink anything without a problem. KOW.
>"subjects who are given antibiotics are more than 3 times as likely to report more bowel problems 4 months later than controls." American Journal of Gastroenterology, Jan 02





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