Advertisement

Jump to content


Photo

Why does probiotics cause gas?


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 kitty2

kitty2

    Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 361 posts

Posted 29 November 2002 - 07:07 PM

Advertisement
I'm trying to get rid of gas by taking probiotics and it seems to cause more gas. Why is this? I thought probiotics were non-gas forming. Posted Image Thanks for any insight! Posted Image


Advertisement

#2 OppOnn

OppOnn

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,795 posts

Posted 29 November 2002 - 07:52 PM

Are you taking your probiotics with food?It works best on an empty stomach.They usually tell us to take it 30 minutesbefore breakfast but I take mine in the eveningor at least 30 mins before or after eating.Also, most should be kept fresh, in the fridge,to be effective. And the store from whom youbought it should have had it in the fridge too,before they sold it to you.As far as I know, only Culturelle's Lactobacillus GG has strong enough strains not to be in the fridge, which makes it good to travel, but Istill keep mine in the fridge most of the timeto keep it stronger longer.It really helps me.So I hope you can work it out to help you.I don't think you should be getting gas orbloating. The opposite should be happening.
Crohn's ileitis. Mild.

#3 Jadair

Jadair

    Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 559 posts

Posted 30 November 2002 - 08:13 AM

Is probiotics a medication, herb, vitamin, or something else. I've seen it mentioned a lot on these boards, what exactly is it, who should use it, who shouldn't use it, and most importantly, what is it used for?? I've seen gas mentioned, also a few other statements that I don't remember off hand. A question, is it good to stop the gas, or just let it "go". I know in certain situations, a lot of people who work, would not want the gas. As far as the ones who stay home, isn't it good to rid the gas??Thanx for listeningJadair

#4 Jadair

Jadair

    Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 559 posts

Posted 30 November 2002 - 08:15 AM

One more question, is this used for anything else, besides gas??thanx again,Jadair

#5 Kathleen M.

Kathleen M.

    Community Manager

  • Community Managers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 34,848 posts
  • Country:United States

Posted 30 November 2002 - 11:24 AM

The bacteria you are adding in by definition do not produce gas from carbohydrates.But you are not introducing them into a blank clean colon. You are introducting them into a pre-existing ecosystem. Think about the havoc that happens when they introduced Kudzu, Zebra Muscles or other things into an ecosystem. It can upset the balance that is there.I believe it is this upset of the ecosystem that increases gas. For *most* people this is something that settles out in a few days to a couple of weeks. Some people have ecosystems that never get past this and settle back down. Although starting them after you take antibiotics could help this. Just that there are fewer bacteria to be "upset" about the whole thing.It may depend greatly on which probiotic you take. Some species may upset the pre-existing ecosystem more than others.Why I think this may be going on is that in cows when you change the diet the ecosystem flips from one predominate species to another and during the flip gas production can be astoundingly large (in cows with holes to the inside and corks they can blow the cork off....intact cows can if you muck them up bad enough with diet actually rupture inside and die)Reducing gas producing foods during the transition may help. Limit starches other than rice, no raffinose, sorbtiol, and you may need to limit lactose.Probiotics in the med. lit have also been used for treating acute diarrhea causing diseases. They seem to help for that. The studies with IBS are mixed. Either no benefit, possible benefit for some subtypes (suspected to be diarrhea predominate), or benefits that mostly stem from reduction in gas production (less bloating and pain).K.
My story of beating IBS: My Story with IBS
Ph.D in Biology

#6 SpAsMaN*

SpAsMaN*

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9,139 posts

Posted 30 November 2002 - 02:12 PM

what was the brand of the product or the name of that?me i tried lactobacillus and not worst but no help.i think about ordering primal defense,some have relief with it.
---------------------------------
-->IBS INDUCED BY NSAIDS NAPROXEN
-->NSAIDS YOU SUCKS!!!
-Permanent discomfort/cecum&sigmoid stuck/trapped gas-
---->IBS-Type constipation normal transit time(diagnose with non-relaxing puborectalis december 2005)
--->Pubic nevralgia
***WORST PERMANENTLY SINCE RIFAXIMIN

#7 kitty2

kitty2

    Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 361 posts

Posted 30 November 2002 - 02:15 PM

Thanks Kmottus for your insight! I always appreciate your posts - they are very informative, helpful and well thought out! I was thinking that some of the gas may be from the bad bacteria "dying off". Do you think that's a possibility? Do you think enemas could be of use? That possibly could reduce the number of bacteria in the colon and it then could be easier to replace them with the probiotics.OppOnn - thanks for your post! I take the probiotics on an empty stomach right before I go to bed. I take Jarro-Dophilus with fos which is refrigerated. It has the following bacteria & amount:L. rhamnosus - 670 million,L. casei - 670 millionL.plantarum - 360 millionL. acidophilus - 670 millionB. longum - 670 millionB. breve - 360 millionJadair - probiotics are bacteria that are good for your gut. We all have bacteria living in our gut - some good and some bad. The bad can cause all sorts of digestive problems - diarrhea, gas etc. so when we take the probiotics we are trying to populate our intestines with the good. You can buy probiotics in any health food store but you should look for the "live" ones they have in the refrigerated section. The ones not refrigerated are probably dead and won't help you much. Hope this helps! Posted Image

#8 kamie

kamie

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,012 posts

Posted 30 November 2002 - 02:23 PM

In the world of probiotics there are a huge amount of choices. The list is huge on the different kinds and what theydo. So study up on the kinds of organisms and begin there in making choices.I also beleive that imuch depends of the company and their integrity in the whole manufacturing shipping and retailing process.Good useful probiotics must absolutely stay in a refrigerated area.They have to be produced that way, shipped that way and bought that way. And once you get them home, they have to be stored that way as heat kills the organisms and you want those things delivered live to your gut.The gassiness I would suspect might be a process where the organisms are dying in the product.I don't take probiotics in the caps.I mix plain, non fat real organic yogurt with water evry single day and thats also what I use on my cereal.Some people can't tolerate yogurt.But I can, and time after time, it saves my gut.and now, several months down the road on this whole belly healing, gas is not one of my big problems.Kamie

#9 kamie

kamie

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,012 posts

Posted 30 November 2002 - 02:27 PM

K's post:Probiotics in the med. lit have also been used for treating acute diarrhea causing diseases. _____________________________________One of the lactobacillus specifics is the L.Rueteri.Stoneyfield is the only company in the US that uses L.Ruteri in their yogurt.You might want to bop on over to the stoneyfield site because they give a lot off good probiotic info and they also have a number of good links to other resources.Kamie

#10 OppOnn

OppOnn

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,795 posts

Posted 30 November 2002 - 04:42 PM

I am on about my 7th or 8th make and kind of acidophilus over the years. And I find theones I am taking now the very best. Although they are the least expensive. About $22 as opposed to their predessor, which was almost $100 for the same amount!The ones I take now were bought at a drug store, not my usual health food store, and were not refrigerated. I wrote to the company, had a long correspondence about this and they told mesomething like the strain in their acidophilusis so strong, you can even travel with it, whichis what I did when I went to France recently.Otherwise, I do keep it in the fridge to help itstay stronger longer. But it does have itsadvantages.I take Culturelle Lactobacillus GG.O
Crohn's ileitis. Mild.

#11 flux

flux

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 10,398 posts

Posted 30 November 2002 - 08:19 PM

quote:
and it seems to cause more gas.
How do you know it's more? What happens to it if you don't eat at all for two days?
I am not a doctor, but utilize sources of information not readily available to the public. Some of this information may contradict what you think you know and some of it may sound harsh, but the information is what it is, and you got it here for free. I am just a messenger. Always consult a real doctor.

#12 Blair

Blair

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts

Posted 30 November 2002 - 11:08 PM

I bet its because the probiotics also normaly have FOS or some type of starch included which feeds bacteria, maybe not probiotic ones you purchased and hope for either. So possibly the probiotics bacteria are DOA (dead on arrival or soon after) and the FOS is giving your Colon bacteria a nice Thanksgiving feast. How to replace exsiting bacteria with ones you hope are more helpful? VSL3.com has a few interesting stories about doctors tring to do just that. BTW probiotics make me worse. All kinds I've tried. So don't kill yourself just because others have had sucess. Or at least try different types if one doesn't help after some time. My 18 month old son seems to have been helped with his chronic diarrhea with a probiotic? Its still early and my fingers are crossed. Of course hes so young that compeating bateria might not be to prevelent. And I also believe some "IBS" subset acually are defficent in Colon bateria and anything to promote bacteria helps them. So good luck and let us know if you have sucess with probiotics.

#13 MoonShine88

MoonShine88

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 02 December 2002 - 01:58 PM

I started taking Primal Defense last week and had a terrible time! I failed to read up on it before taking it and took two tablets the first day, which is not a high dose. But next day I had awful gas, bloating, diaherra (I have IBS-D) and my hemmorioids got bad. I cut down to one the next day and had no D but did have cramps. I quit them yesterday but "still" had cramps. Today I'm free of cramps but have some slight constipation.Those of you taking PD or, for that matter, any probiotic would be wise to read how to take them at http://www.vital-nutrients.com/what_to_expect_1.htm. It may be very helpful to you.It's my understanding that this purging is natural but I don't like it at all. I felt awful. Still not great. I just returned from a trip to the HFS and bought some Solaray Multidolphis (sp) which I've used in the past without this problem. PD is broad sprectrum and terribly expensive. I paid $44 for a bottle of ninety. And it requires no refrigeration.I would very much like to hear what others have experienced with various probiotics and how they take them.BTW, I took two Solaray Aloe Vera Gel Tabs for the cramps and it helped. In fact, the cramps dissappeared shortly after taking them.

#14 Kathleen M.

Kathleen M.

    Community Manager

  • Community Managers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 34,848 posts
  • Country:United States

Posted 02 December 2002 - 03:30 PM

I have a problem with the dead/dying bacteria theory.Kinda along the first rule of genetic mutation research. Dead bacteria do not mutate.I'm not sure dead/dying bacteria do metabolic processes like digesting carbs all that well. At least the dead ones do not.Now if the dead bacteria somehow only feed bacteria that make gas...but that seems unlikely.I think it is more of a ecological pressure sort of thing. Resources being used by a new species might alter the metabolic rate of and existing species. It is a complex eco-system so what is going on with one species as it colonizes the colon may effect the species around it. Kind of like "sibling rivalry" I have a new sibling so I eat more to make sure they don't get it....something like that.Eventually most people reach a new steady state with the probiotic species that were introduced finding a niche that isn't upsetting others so much.I don't know that an enema would do much. If I recall correctly the bacteria in the colon tend to form like a slime mat sort of thing (think rocks around a hot spring) that tends to be fairly resistant to being flushed out all that easily. You would get rid of bacteria that left the mat and are in the stool, but that may not change much of the overall ecology.K.
My story of beating IBS: My Story with IBS
Ph.D in Biology

#15 Blair

Blair

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts

Posted 02 December 2002 - 11:09 PM

I was reading that most gas produced in the bowel is Hydrogen from bacteria that excrete Hydrogen (H2). I also read that methane producing bacteria use H2 to produce methane. Therefore if one has methane produers you could have little to no gas because they (methane producing bacteria) will use up H2 from the H2 producing bacteria. They use 4 H2 molecules and 1 carbon dioxide molecule for one methane molecule. Not everyone has methane producers though. another type of bacteria uses H2 to produce hydrogen sulfide, which smells bad, like rotten eggs.I don't know what probiotic bacteria are? H2 producers? methane producers? I still think the extra gas maybe coming from the FOS added to probiotic formulas. FOS is added to feed bacteria, we can't digest it. Fructo -oligosaccharides (FOS) I beleive is the spelling?Anyway I got this From the book "wind Breaks" which I descibed in the book section of this web-site.

#16 kitty2

kitty2

    Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 361 posts

Posted 03 December 2002 - 10:10 AM

Blair, my probiotic has FOS in it. Maybe that's what's causing the gas! Thanks for the info - I wasn't sure what FOS was.

#17 flux

flux

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 10,398 posts

Posted 03 December 2002 - 12:35 PM

quote:
they use 4 H2 molecules and 1 carbon dioxide molecule for one methane molecule.
That leaves 2 H2 unaccounted for. I would think the equation is 2CO2 + 4H2 = 2CH4 + 202. The O2 are probably consumed by other bacteria.
quote:
Not everyone has methane producers though.
Only 1/3 the population.
quote:
another type of bacteria uses H2 to produce hydrogen sulfide
That is in very small amounts, though.Most bacteria that consume H2 don�t produce any gas. They mainly make vinegar.
quote:
I don't know what probiotic bacteria are? H2 producers? methane producers?
None of the above. They make most short-chain fatty acids, such as lactic acid or related stuff like vinegar.
quote:
I still think the extra gas maybe coming from the FOS added to probiotic formulas.
Initial experiments with FOS had confirmed this, although whether it�s happening here we don�t know.
I am not a doctor, but utilize sources of information not readily available to the public. Some of this information may contradict what you think you know and some of it may sound harsh, but the information is what it is, and you got it here for free. I am just a messenger. Always consult a real doctor.

#18 Blair

Blair

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts

Posted 04 December 2002 - 12:14 AM

Ok then probiotics will reduce H2 volume if they take the place of some of the H2 producing bacteria, presumably. Would vinegar or short chain fatty acids be irritating to an Irritable Colon? More than H2 gas? would one type of bacteria or less bacteria reduce symptoms? I am under the impression that my diet has reduced bacteria in the colon and reduced IBS symptoms? I know at one time researchers tested IBS verus Normal people in a gas collecting tents and found some differences. In Britain this was done I think. But prehaps research has moved on to different causes of IBS? What ever happened to the cedars sinai bacteria Overgrowth research? Thanks for the chemisry Flux, I just copied what I posted out of a book. Its been a long time since I studied chemisry. i'll take your word on it.

#19 flux

flux

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 10,398 posts

Posted 04 December 2002 - 03:43 AM

quote:
Would vinegar or short chain fatty acids be irritating to an Irritable Colon
Quite the opposite. The colon requires it for nutrition. Enemas of these things have use to treat ulcerative colitis, although the results have been mixed.[
quote:
More than H2 gas?
H2 is harmless to the gut. However, hydrogen sulfide (H2S) is toxic to colon and may be a factor in causing ulcerative colitis.
quote:
would one type of bacteria or less bacteria reduce symptoms?
I don�t think we know the answer to that, but Lactobacillus GG has sucessfully treated antibiotic associated colitis.
quote:
I know at one time researchers tested IBS verus Normal people in a gas collecting tents and found some differences.
Their method has never been verified so we don�t know if the result is trustworthy. I don�t believe it.
quote:
What ever happened to the cedars sinai bacteria Overgrowth research?
They still seem to be getting near perfect data supporting their claims. (I think they keep using the same set of patients Posted Image )
I am not a doctor, but utilize sources of information not readily available to the public. Some of this information may contradict what you think you know and some of it may sound harsh, but the information is what it is, and you got it here for free. I am just a messenger. Always consult a real doctor.

#20 Blair

Blair

    Very Prolific Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts

Posted 04 December 2002 - 05:37 PM

Thnks Flux, I still don't think the bacteria connection can be ruled out until a more definite cause of IBD can be found. As far as IBS goes which I seem to have, in my mind it definitly seems to be exactly what the name implies, an irritable or over sensitive colon to a wide range of things,(syndrome). I also don't see how it would be easy for bacteria to live to a ripe old age in my colon for long as it (the Colon) seems to like to operate in flush mode. any bacteria that like a stable enviroment or comsume H2 would seem to me to be out of luck. But a few hours to me may be a life time to mr and mrs bacteria.cedars is still on the bacteria over growth cause of IBS? well I suppose time will tell.





Advertisement


About Us | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Disclaimer | Terms of Service | Crisis Resources

Irritable Bowel Syndrome |  Inflammatory Bowel Disease |  Crohn's Disease |  Ulcerative Colitis |  Fibromyalgia |  GERD - Reflux Disease


©Copyright 1995-2014 IBS Self Help and Support Group All rights reserved




This website is certified by Health On the Net Foundation. Click to verify. We comply with the HONcode standard for trustworthy health information: verify here