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IBS diarrhea (severe weight loss)


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#1 Guest_BASHI2_*

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 05:32 AM

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I was very moved by reading the comments and suggestions people posted, and I hope somebody will be able to share his or her experience with me. My mother is suffering from the IBS-diarrhea (according to her physician/s), and she has been reduced to nothing over the years, due to repeated diarrhea (chronic), and when it starts she is unable to retain anything. She is 62 years old and very fragile, and now she is scared to step out of the house. Her doctor thinks she has intestinal hurry. I am wondering if you could offer some advice. She experiences high blood pressure, occasionally. Thank you!


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#2 Mike NoLomotil

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 09:28 AM

Has Mom had a complete workup by a Board Certified Gastroenterologist yet, or is the cae being handled by her primary care physician(s). Sometime very fine PCP's may miss something "reversible" (treatable) while doing the workup and she should be seen by a Board Certified GI doc. If she HAS, I recommend a second opinion beofe doing anything else. Typically patient with the symptom sets of IBS, even episodic diarrhea, do not have a loss-of-weight problem unless it is so severe and frequent and the transit time so chronically shortened that is effects complete digestion and absorption. This would be atypical, but not unheard of.Let us know a little more.ThanksMNL_____________ www.leapallergy.com
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#3 Mike NoLomotil

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 09:28 AM

Has Mom had a complete workup by a Board Certified Gastroenterologist yet, or is the cae being handled by her primary care physician(s). Sometime very fine PCP's may miss something "reversible" (treatable) while doing the workup and she should be seen by a Board Certified GI doc. If she HAS, I recommend a second opinion beofe doing anything else. Typically patient with the symptom sets of IBS, even episodic diarrhea, do not have a loss-of-weight problem unless it is so severe and frequent and the transit time so chronically shortened that is effects complete digestion and absorption. This would be atypical, but not unheard of.Let us know a little more.ThanksMNL_____________ www.leapallergy.com
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#4 Kathleen M.

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 12:07 PM

2nd the good work up by a good doctor.Can she take Ensure? It is a calorie dense nutritionally dense supplement that is for the most part easily digested and may help her supplement her diet.K.------------------I have worked for the government and at universities doing scientific research primarily in the area of the environment and the impact of environmental factors on human health, I have never done any independant clinical testing for the pharmaceutical industry, nor have I ever worked for a drug company. I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial, natural, or any other product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html
My story of beating IBS: My Story with IBS
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#5 Kathleen M.

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 12:07 PM

2nd the good work up by a good doctor.Can she take Ensure? It is a calorie dense nutritionally dense supplement that is for the most part easily digested and may help her supplement her diet.K.------------------I have worked for the government and at universities doing scientific research primarily in the area of the environment and the impact of environmental factors on human health, I have never done any independant clinical testing for the pharmaceutical industry, nor have I ever worked for a drug company. I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial, natural, or any other product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html
My story of beating IBS: My Story with IBS
Ph.D in Biology

#6 LadyM

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 01:42 PM

Hi, I have been having a problem losing weight too. Last August I had my gallbladder taking out, in turn this cause my minor ibs to turned into major symptoms, and I have lost over 50 pounds. Every time I have a flare up of the D, I lose weight. Doctors got me eating alot of sweets to stop weight lost but some people are sensitive to sugar, I am not. This time around after this bad flare up, I lost four more pounds, but this time I manage to gain 2 back, first time I have gained since my surgery. Take ten more pounds off me and you won't be able to tell the difference in me and a pole. I am wearing size 16 in little girls clothes. Losing all this weight has caused me problems with my muscles, I am in a wellness program to strengthing back up. Might be something to consider for her too, they will help her get her muscle back to where they protect her bones better. I am 39 and a specialist told me that I had the muscle tone of a 75 year old woman were I lost weight so quickly and prio to my rapid weight lost I was a muscular person, could lift very heavy stuff, now it hard to pick up my fat cat The meds I am on that seems to have helped my D is pepcid. I hope your mother gets to feeling better. I know how she feels about being fragile, been so afraid that I would break a bone, the doc told me that I could very easily when I went to him, but glad to say I have build my muscles back up some but still got a long ways to go. Now I am taking one day at a time and hope that I don't lose no more weight. Hugs to your mother, God Bless.

#7 LadyM

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 01:42 PM

Hi, I have been having a problem losing weight too. Last August I had my gallbladder taking out, in turn this cause my minor ibs to turned into major symptoms, and I have lost over 50 pounds. Every time I have a flare up of the D, I lose weight. Doctors got me eating alot of sweets to stop weight lost but some people are sensitive to sugar, I am not. This time around after this bad flare up, I lost four more pounds, but this time I manage to gain 2 back, first time I have gained since my surgery. Take ten more pounds off me and you won't be able to tell the difference in me and a pole. I am wearing size 16 in little girls clothes. Losing all this weight has caused me problems with my muscles, I am in a wellness program to strengthing back up. Might be something to consider for her too, they will help her get her muscle back to where they protect her bones better. I am 39 and a specialist told me that I had the muscle tone of a 75 year old woman were I lost weight so quickly and prio to my rapid weight lost I was a muscular person, could lift very heavy stuff, now it hard to pick up my fat cat The meds I am on that seems to have helped my D is pepcid. I hope your mother gets to feeling better. I know how she feels about being fragile, been so afraid that I would break a bone, the doc told me that I could very easily when I went to him, but glad to say I have build my muscles back up some but still got a long ways to go. Now I am taking one day at a time and hope that I don't lose no more weight. Hugs to your mother, God Bless.

#8 NewBreedGirl

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 01:59 PM

when I started out on this board a year ago I was 5'7 and 97 pounds. Also suffering from IBS-DSince milk was an issue I would drink Ensure Plus for weight gain and also I was prescribed a light med for an anger disorder.....it didnt help with that but the side effects are constipation and weight gain. And man did it work. I am now at my recommended weight of 135. You may wanna look into it its light drug non-addictive its called Zyprexa.

#9 NewBreedGirl

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 01:59 PM

when I started out on this board a year ago I was 5'7 and 97 pounds. Also suffering from IBS-DSince milk was an issue I would drink Ensure Plus for weight gain and also I was prescribed a light med for an anger disorder.....it didnt help with that but the side effects are constipation and weight gain. And man did it work. I am now at my recommended weight of 135. You may wanna look into it its light drug non-addictive its called Zyprexa.

#10 Jeffrey Roberts

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 02:55 PM

I agree with a more thorough work-up. Weight loss is not typically an indication of IBS.Jeff

#11 Jeffrey Roberts

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Posted 20 August 2001 - 02:55 PM

I agree with a more thorough work-up. Weight loss is not typically an indication of IBS.Jeff

#12 LadyM

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Posted 21 August 2001 - 12:51 AM

I agree with Jeff on a more through work up. But I do have a question, why isn't weight lost part of ibs? When you have constant D, you are going to lose weight, I do and I read where others have too. Logical you would lose weight with D, and if it was bad enough you would dehydrate with it, I did that last time with the worst flare up with the D I ever had(due to milk, actually I ate the largest ice cream cone you ever saw and paid for it severly, that is when it really soaked into my blonde brain that I was Lactose intollerate). I also have read post where people who have D want to lose weight and can't. It is perplexing about the weight loss but to me it could happen to a person who has ibs with alot of D. And logically with a person who has C, they really should have a hard time losing weight. But who said IBS was logical? Spock? lol, sorry, had to laugh at my own humor. God Bless.

#13 LadyM

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Posted 21 August 2001 - 12:51 AM

I agree with Jeff on a more through work up. But I do have a question, why isn't weight lost part of ibs? When you have constant D, you are going to lose weight, I do and I read where others have too. Logical you would lose weight with D, and if it was bad enough you would dehydrate with it, I did that last time with the worst flare up with the D I ever had(due to milk, actually I ate the largest ice cream cone you ever saw and paid for it severly, that is when it really soaked into my blonde brain that I was Lactose intollerate). I also have read post where people who have D want to lose weight and can't. It is perplexing about the weight loss but to me it could happen to a person who has ibs with alot of D. And logically with a person who has C, they really should have a hard time losing weight. But who said IBS was logical? Spock? lol, sorry, had to laugh at my own humor. God Bless.

#14 Aussiedeb

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Posted 21 August 2001 - 02:06 AM

NewBreedGirl.. Zyprexa is not a good med to recommend..i was put on it by an idiot shrink..and ya i gained a lot of weight..but it caused me to self-mutilate(cutting yourself) for months..now im am permanently scarred because of it..i had no history of that before and have not cut myself since i took myself off it and told the doctor what he can do with it...now im on remeron for depression it helps for that but not my IBS-D type...Lately i have lost a lot of weight but im jumping for joy...i gained 40 pounds on the zyprexa and prozac..but my IBS has been really bad as of late...and im hardly eating anything but bananas and bread..------------------AussieDeb
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#15 Aussiedeb

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Posted 21 August 2001 - 02:06 AM

NewBreedGirl.. Zyprexa is not a good med to recommend..i was put on it by an idiot shrink..and ya i gained a lot of weight..but it caused me to self-mutilate(cutting yourself) for months..now im am permanently scarred because of it..i had no history of that before and have not cut myself since i took myself off it and told the doctor what he can do with it...now im on remeron for depression it helps for that but not my IBS-D type...Lately i have lost a lot of weight but im jumping for joy...i gained 40 pounds on the zyprexa and prozac..but my IBS has been really bad as of late...and im hardly eating anything but bananas and bread..------------------AussieDeb
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#16 Mike NoLomotil

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Posted 21 August 2001 - 11:21 AM

LADY M:The things you say are absolutely true in the context of loss of weight following an episode. This of course is fluid loss and is quickly replenished. The person who fails to thrive, so to speak, secondary to constant diarreah which so shortens the transit time chronically, and such derangment of the normal lumen-to-vasuclar interface structure and function is present that normal digestion and absorption of nutrients is impeded does also appear to occur clinically.Sometimes people with this problem are misdiagnosed and further investigation sometimes reveals a pathogenic basis for the symptoms. Many many times I have seen patients whith this chronic non-episodic diarrhea be "reworked up" and found pathogenic invlvement of one form or another and relief is achieved. Also, I have seen sometimes people like this have true food allergy or severe non-allergic reactivity (delayed hypersensitivity, intolerance whatever the term du jour, its irrelevant)which (when identified) causes the constant, nonepisodic diarrhea to diminish or even cease, whereupon weight is regained. There are other possibilities those are but 3.I think what folks are saying that in the patients who suffer the more typical episodic diarrhea and/or cyclic symtoms, without exception assessments of selected patient populations have shown no trend towards chronic weight loss in the more typical patients. They tend to be of normal weight when assessed in their normative state (not right after an attack), and there is another subpopulation which struggles with weight Gain.This second one is the most interesting, and the physicians and dieticians I work with see this very frequently: patients with comorbid weight difficulties and symptoms of IBS.Now a number of theories have been set forth as to the mechanism for this, and they can become as exotic as the effects of specific mediators on lypolisis. In a more practical sense gained from experience observing the clinical management of these patients during a recent 5 year period, these patients have a certain amount of excess water weight, which is shed when their provoking dietary components are identified and removed. This averages 6-10 pounds (I lost 6 pounds and I was s kinny guy...but my little 40+ front-corporation diminished). Fell, Sandberg and others have many times confirmed this phenomenon in food-sensitive patients over the years. It is basically an expected response.After the initial phase of a specific avoidance diet, patients find in retrospect that often they were suffering food cravings which corresponded to their reactive foods. Since very often this involves aberrant or excessive consumption of foods which are realtively high in caloric density (as some patients receive serotonergic and endorphinergic response benefits from these foods....also called "comfort foods") sometimes a prolonged phase of weight loss occurs merely as a result of ths subsidance of food cravings which resulted in overconsumption of more calorii-dense foods.There was a study published several years ago using older in vitro technology to identify the offending foods and then monitor weight loss during avoidance diets, which demonstrated not only scale weight loss but reduced fat ratio to body mass. So a postulate was set forth by some which linked this to enhanced lipolytic action. BUT this to me is highly specultaive at this stage since they did NOT track caloric intake as I recall nor check basal metabolic rate nor establish the patients caloric consumption at her homeostatic state (weight before the reactive foods were removed). So personally I am more inclined, having observed hundtreds of dietary intake logs during the avoidance phase and loaded the foods into one of several medically-accepted (ADA approved) nutrient analysis datatbase programs to suspect plain old ordinary reduced caloric intake. I have obsrved it first hand more often than not and quantified it.Anyway, in a nutshell, thats how much time I have today to talk about weight and IBS or anything else. Gotta go to work. But I have been priviliged to see alot of people with these symptoms undergo dietary therapy and seen the data points, and read other investigators finidings, so I base my editorializing on that.Eat well, think well, be well.MNL______________ www.leapallergy.com
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#17 Mike NoLomotil

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Posted 21 August 2001 - 11:21 AM

LADY M:The things you say are absolutely true in the context of loss of weight following an episode. This of course is fluid loss and is quickly replenished. The person who fails to thrive, so to speak, secondary to constant diarreah which so shortens the transit time chronically, and such derangment of the normal lumen-to-vasuclar interface structure and function is present that normal digestion and absorption of nutrients is impeded does also appear to occur clinically.Sometimes people with this problem are misdiagnosed and further investigation sometimes reveals a pathogenic basis for the symptoms. Many many times I have seen patients whith this chronic non-episodic diarrhea be "reworked up" and found pathogenic invlvement of one form or another and relief is achieved. Also, I have seen sometimes people like this have true food allergy or severe non-allergic reactivity (delayed hypersensitivity, intolerance whatever the term du jour, its irrelevant)which (when identified) causes the constant, nonepisodic diarrhea to diminish or even cease, whereupon weight is regained. There are other possibilities those are but 3.I think what folks are saying that in the patients who suffer the more typical episodic diarrhea and/or cyclic symtoms, without exception assessments of selected patient populations have shown no trend towards chronic weight loss in the more typical patients. They tend to be of normal weight when assessed in their normative state (not right after an attack), and there is another subpopulation which struggles with weight Gain.This second one is the most interesting, and the physicians and dieticians I work with see this very frequently: patients with comorbid weight difficulties and symptoms of IBS.Now a number of theories have been set forth as to the mechanism for this, and they can become as exotic as the effects of specific mediators on lypolisis. In a more practical sense gained from experience observing the clinical management of these patients during a recent 5 year period, these patients have a certain amount of excess water weight, which is shed when their provoking dietary components are identified and removed. This averages 6-10 pounds (I lost 6 pounds and I was s kinny guy...but my little 40+ front-corporation diminished). Fell, Sandberg and others have many times confirmed this phenomenon in food-sensitive patients over the years. It is basically an expected response.After the initial phase of a specific avoidance diet, patients find in retrospect that often they were suffering food cravings which corresponded to their reactive foods. Since very often this involves aberrant or excessive consumption of foods which are realtively high in caloric density (as some patients receive serotonergic and endorphinergic response benefits from these foods....also called "comfort foods") sometimes a prolonged phase of weight loss occurs merely as a result of ths subsidance of food cravings which resulted in overconsumption of more calorii-dense foods.There was a study published several years ago using older in vitro technology to identify the offending foods and then monitor weight loss during avoidance diets, which demonstrated not only scale weight loss but reduced fat ratio to body mass. So a postulate was set forth by some which linked this to enhanced lipolytic action. BUT this to me is highly specultaive at this stage since they did NOT track caloric intake as I recall nor check basal metabolic rate nor establish the patients caloric consumption at her homeostatic state (weight before the reactive foods were removed). So personally I am more inclined, having observed hundtreds of dietary intake logs during the avoidance phase and loaded the foods into one of several medically-accepted (ADA approved) nutrient analysis datatbase programs to suspect plain old ordinary reduced caloric intake. I have obsrved it first hand more often than not and quantified it.Anyway, in a nutshell, thats how much time I have today to talk about weight and IBS or anything else. Gotta go to work. But I have been priviliged to see alot of people with these symptoms undergo dietary therapy and seen the data points, and read other investigators finidings, so I base my editorializing on that.Eat well, think well, be well.MNL______________ www.leapallergy.com
Eat Well. Think Well. Be Well.
www.nowleap.com
What's My Line?:
http://ibsgroup.org/...910646#51910646

#18 Kathleen M.

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Posted 21 August 2001 - 11:22 AM

LadyM--The diarrhea in IBS seems to be mostly a colon problem and things not processing correctly there.You absorb zero nutrients from the colon. It doesn't matter if the food leaves you 30 minutes or 60 hours after it gets in the colon (and it takes ~ 3 hours to reach the colon) other than you aren't getting the water back out of the stool so you may have to watch for dehydration.In IBS the small intestine appears to be working just fine. That is where you get the nutrients and calories out of the food you eat. People who have problems with the small intestine that cannot absorb things are seriously and critically ill without treatment. IBSers are for the most part generally healthy and not on the verge of being hospitalized, so the small intestine seems to be working just fine.The stool you poop out right after you eat is from a previous meal that you have already rung the nutrients and calories out of, so it doesn't effect weight.What effects weight in IBSers is how much they eat and how active they are. It is very common for people to not eat to avoid symptoms. Normal people that don't eat enough have weight loss. IBSers that don't eat enough have weight loss. (and visa versa with eating too much and not enough exercise).If you are losing weight and having IBS symptoms right down everything you eat and the amounts and consult a calorie chart. If you are eating sufficiently to maintain weight (usually over 2000 calories a day) or gain weight and you are still losing weight that needs to be evaluated as that is a symptom of something other than IBS.K.------------------I have worked for the government and at universities doing scientific research primarily in the area of the environment and the impact of environmental factors on human health, I have never done any independant clinical testing for the pharmaceutical industry, nor have I ever worked for a drug company. I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial, natural, or any other product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html
My story of beating IBS: My Story with IBS
Ph.D in Biology

#19 Kathleen M.

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Posted 21 August 2001 - 11:22 AM

LadyM--The diarrhea in IBS seems to be mostly a colon problem and things not processing correctly there.You absorb zero nutrients from the colon. It doesn't matter if the food leaves you 30 minutes or 60 hours after it gets in the colon (and it takes ~ 3 hours to reach the colon) other than you aren't getting the water back out of the stool so you may have to watch for dehydration.In IBS the small intestine appears to be working just fine. That is where you get the nutrients and calories out of the food you eat. People who have problems with the small intestine that cannot absorb things are seriously and critically ill without treatment. IBSers are for the most part generally healthy and not on the verge of being hospitalized, so the small intestine seems to be working just fine.The stool you poop out right after you eat is from a previous meal that you have already rung the nutrients and calories out of, so it doesn't effect weight.What effects weight in IBSers is how much they eat and how active they are. It is very common for people to not eat to avoid symptoms. Normal people that don't eat enough have weight loss. IBSers that don't eat enough have weight loss. (and visa versa with eating too much and not enough exercise).If you are losing weight and having IBS symptoms right down everything you eat and the amounts and consult a calorie chart. If you are eating sufficiently to maintain weight (usually over 2000 calories a day) or gain weight and you are still losing weight that needs to be evaluated as that is a symptom of something other than IBS.K.------------------I have worked for the government and at universities doing scientific research primarily in the area of the environment and the impact of environmental factors on human health, I have never done any independant clinical testing for the pharmaceutical industry, nor have I ever worked for a drug company. I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial, natural, or any other product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html
My story of beating IBS: My Story with IBS
Ph.D in Biology

#20 LotronexLover

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Posted 21 August 2001 - 05:29 PM

I too have IBS D. I am 5'5 & weight 100 lbs forever. The ONLY time I ever gained weight was on Lotronex 13 lbs!!! Because I kept everything in. I then lost the 13 lbs when taken off of Lotronex ... I now gained 8 lbs back on Remeron. Again because everything is staying in.Has your mom ever had a test for celiac disease (blood test) or for osteoporosis?Fibracon pills or calcium pills may help her bind up a bit. Has she taken anything for her IBS?





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