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Kel,I received this response from curezone.com (ask Andreas Moritz). His response is clear and very similar to what a Naturopath was telling me. I have a hunch he's right. Treat the digestive disorder, liver, kidney cleanse etc...and forget about clearing the body of bacteria/yeast as they are a natural part of the body's response. This is why I think cleansing the liver and slowly detoxing my body with diet and herbs are the best answer. Maybe even no vitamins, just alot of fresh juicing and fish oil, borage oil being the only supplements & coconut oil etc..Here's his response: Dear Chris,I have answered a similar question just yesterday, so I adding the answer to this message. Apart form that, cleansing your liver (see The Amazing Liver Cleanse, www.1stbooks.com) is very necessary, for without removing the hundreds or thousands of stones form the bile ducts you digestion continues to be weak. This in turn, lead to extra waste from undigested food which requires the help of destructive bacteria to break it down. Rooting out bacteria is lost cause and is counterproductive, and it can lead to many unwanted side-effects. Again, bacteria are not the culprit here. Inadequate digesiton is. -------------------"Killing bacteria or trying to get rid of them is not the approach to treat recurring infections. Destructive bacteria are part of every healthy organsism. Without them we could not survive. The live in our body and are natrually attracted to go to areas of damaged, weak, undernourished cells and accumulated metabolic waste products (due to digestive problems and/or dietary mistakes).Killing all bacteria is impossible, if he you flooded every nuke and cranny of the body antibiotics. You would have to permanently live in a sterilized space ship forever. Our body has many times more bacteria than it has cells. Any known destrucitve bacteria can multiply to the billions in a matter of 48 hours. However, the growth of the friendly, useful bacteria in our gut that help us digest and assimlilate food and help to make such things as vitamins and proteins, gets heavily inhibited through the use of antibiotics. These cells get overpowered by yeast. The yeast thrives in a toxic tissue-damaged environment. The more often you use antibiotics the stronger the yeast population. The is a lot more information about this in my book The Key to Health and Rejuvenation, www.1stbooks.com.The doctors prescibe antibiotics because that is all they have to prescribe for infections. An infection, however, is not a disease, it is the body's natural way to do away with the toxic waste deposits and the damaged cells. TO do this effeectively it engages the immune system, which, in turn can do its job of multiplying macrophages, B-cells, antibodies, etc. only by raising the body temperature. Fever is a natural way to combat the infection. The higher it is the stronger the immune response. The body does that to prevent the onset of cancer later in life (cancer results from suffocation of cells that consquequently get damaged and are forced to mutate). The repeated use of antibiotics is one of the leading causes of the current cancer epidemic in this country,a mong numerous other diseases. It also is one of most unscientific procedures applied by traditional medicine. It has killed scores of people and compartively saved a few, who could have been saved by natural means just as well. Letting the body do its job is the only real way to escape the vicious cycle. You may need to find a doctor you uses natural, supportive measures (instead of drugs) that help the body succeed in its own efforts. Fever is the most ideal method to the toxicity crisis, and it can be kept at an acceptable level by simple means (described in the above book). Using vitamins can severly affect the kidneys, especially in children. Please also see the section on vitamins in the above book. You can poison a child with vitamins. In addiiton, commercial vitamins have a meager absorption rate of 5 percent due to the binders they came with. The rest becomes waste. The 5 percent absorbed are not necessarily getting into the cells, for they are deprived of their life force. In this form, they are powerful acids that can damge the alkaline cells, which, in turn, requires destrive baceria to help break down the resulting cell debris. Pau d' Arco is widely available, but not all brands are useful. You may ask the members of this forum about a good source. Another very powerful immune-strenghting herb is The Indian Herb, abvailable on http://lifelinewater.com. It also helps to clear damaged cell structures. Lastly, don't try to treat this without making major alteration to her diet. During a toxicity crisis (healing phase) that includes fever, it is important to give her only fluids to drink, no food (see book). Otherwise, the body will have a hard time healing itself." With kind regardsAndreasKel, what do you think. Makes sense to me.Chris
 

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I did 3 liver cleanses and I got about 70 small stone/fatty deposits out of me. The third cleanse resulted in almost nothing coming out so I knew I was finished.
quote: Rooting out bacteria is lost cause and is counterproductive, and it can lead to many unwanted side-effects. Again, bacteria are not the culprit here. Inadequate digesiton is.
YES and NO on this one. My mega herbal antibacterial and antifungal teas plus the raw crushed garlic not only solved my gas problem but it was able to remove me from the deep clutches of this horrible sickness that I was living with for several years. I still felt the "sick" feeling after the herbs but at least it was cut by 50 to 75%. When I first started doing it I was getting a nice big die off reaction which was really nice --- it gave me diarrhea and then I would feel much better.He does a nice job explaining why my initial program failed me. I was drinking the potent herbal cocktail every 48 hours. ---and then I switched to every 72 hours and so on. BIG MISTAKE. In fact dianne from the ibsacol site helped lead me to the correct way of doing it ---- EVERY NIGHT!!!! I am better because of it. In fact I even read that a person can sip pau d'arco tea all day long.I would go against Moritz on this one. Besides most of my herbs have a multifactorial mechanism at work. They clean the liver, blood, kidneys --- everything. Herbs are very high in natural minerals and vitamins, and they have been proven to not harm beneficial bacteria.However, he appears to be correct about this NOT being the solution. I kept a long running diary of my ibsacol trial and I repeatedly mentioned this phenomena (i.e., of -----"why do I need to keep taking these stupid herbs?&#8221
( the 5 month diary is here. It is kind of interesting to see the progress that I went through on ibsacol along with the herbs. It was an incredible learning experience) --- http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...=1;t=033268;p=1
quote:Again, bacteria are not the culprit here. Inadequate digesiton is.
xtian,he is probably correct here. Maybe what is happening is a number of things. Poor functioning pancreas, food intolerances that MAY lead to the body trying to reject the food instead of digest it, immune activation that saps the body of its vital force, many things could be going on.I think that pancreatic enzymes (I take them) and herbs are great. Same with a probiotic. Do a liver cleanse and tell me what comes out.
quote: The doctors prescibe antibiotics because that is all they have to prescribe for infections
yes this is true. Herbs are better. So is breastfeeding your kids so they don't get ear infections and have to take antibiotics. This has hurt me a lot and I am pissed about it.
quote: and forget about clearing the body of bacteria/yeast as they are a natural part of the body's response.
I strongly disagree for all the reasons that I stated above. Since when does a natural healer like Moritz think that herbs are bad????? ---just be certain you engage in a multimodal program so that you can address several issues. Curezone is BIG into homeopathy. They have some very intelligent moderators over there. They are on the cutting edge, but some of it is too new age for me.One other thing ---- Moritz---- makes a BIG mistake. read the book "Herbal antibiotics" (i wrote a post on it over the past week or so in the ibsacol thread).the aauthor will scare the heck out of you with PROVEN facts about bacteria and how they have mutated and diguised themselves from our immune system.I suspect that many of us are living with these toxin spewing little critters inside of us (it is the bacterial exotoxins that make us sick and create "false brain neurotransmitters", etc etc)do you want to take a chance that your body will all of a sudden "wake Up" after you cleanse your liver and then recognize the trillions of bad bacteria????No! that is not the answer. you need to be aggressive on several fronts. think of world war II. air, land, sea assault. go after everything. if it is natural (and you pick the safest herbs) and you are prudent you will not hurt yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Kel,I think I've voted out the Dr's. Just can't handle more drugs, I hope that's not a mistake. So I have two choices. I go with the local herbalist (Dr. matt Van benschoten) who's supposed to be good, or go back to a naturopath, who will treat with vitamin/herbs/diet. I suppose I have to see one of them as I can't do it on my own. Too dangerous. It's very hard to follow an herbal protocol via online.Chris
 

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Just one thing to consider --- you seem to have some decent doctors. At least they are running tests on you. Have you had any type of viral load done yet? How about a basic immune profile?If you have insurance then you may want to stick around in case they "stumble" into something.I need to find out more about this 2 week mycoplasma treatment with antibiotics. I thought it took longer than that to kill it.i am baffled. we are battling a nightmare. someone once told me that it is a long journey --they are not kidding.concerning the B vitamins, every time i tried to do things my way i screwed it up, so i finally am listening to these good doctors and when they tell me to take the B vitamins then i trust them.they have me on everything that the body MUST have plus a few additional things like CoE Q10.
 

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quote: did 3 liver cleanses and I got about 70 small stone/fatty deposits out of me
An imaginary event?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Kel,I've had several t-cell counts done and they were very normal. Is that viral load? It looked pretty extensive. The one thing they always see on my tests are low whites, low platelets and sometimes low reds, but usually not. Sometimes borderline low hemocritoma.The Dr. recommended a 10 day course of levaquin for the mycoplasma infection. I will meet with him on tues. Really don't like antibiotics. I don't have a diagnosed auto-immune disease. Just positive ANA. The rest of the auto-immune panels (complements etc..) were negative. I have some symptoms though. Strange how one moment I feel totally run down and the next I have energy. It plays with your mind. I bought Pau D'Arco today (organic, loose) and evening primrose oil which I will try.Chris
 
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