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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So after reading Hester's post about her CSDA screen with Geneva labs I went back and realized I had done this a couple of years ago. The results showed "NG" for bifidobacterium, though I had 2+ levels for Lacto and 4+ levels for E. Coli.Hester or others, how certain are you as to the results of the Geneva labs test and if we really are "missing" bifidobacterium, is this really a serious problem or not?I gave my results at the time to my gastro here, but she didn't blink an eye at them. She never said - aha, no Bifido. I also had something else called Klebsiella something, which is a borderline organism that may or may not cause diarrhea, etc. But again, my gastro didn't seem to worry about it.Makes me think I should go back to her and press her on it. Hester, how much is the bifidobacterium supplements you take really helping, and how long did it take you?It has now been 2 years since I last took the test - maybe I should do it again. Just don't know.Any views on bacterial balance would be super helpful. Especially the absence of bifido.
 

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Well, I had a hell of a time getting Moss labs to send me the Bifidio. A doctor on their staff finally listened to my Geneva score and certified my Rx. Otherwise you need a doctor to call them and be ON their "special" list of practitioners. ND's work too. This strain, this small pill has absolutely changed my life. I take one to three a day and am honestly CONSTIPATED at times. (LOL) I no longer have cramps with some new fiber added. I am bike riding, kayaking and thinking clearly. Drinking is still troublesome and I don't do it often. I still eat organic whenever possible and do the aloe and Glutamine powder in my fruit smoothies daily with some flax and wallnuts. I truly feel better than I have felt in years. Their product has changed my life. More than even the bowel improvements, I have less fungal infections, my eyes are no longer blistering and I am sleeping better. I had enough energy today to bike 30 miles. (no bathrooms in sight.) Read up on the strain. NG is a really bad rating. . . I absolutely believe it. Problem is that most doctors do NOT know they can get this strain pharmaceutical grade to help their patients. So they think the test is worthless.Sun, my score was nearly the same. I also had some potential pathogens. I forgot the price but I think I get it for around 30 dollars a month or more depending on how much I take. I don't care. It works and I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING!!!!!
 

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Is it a name of the product? Do you know if it possible to get in the europe?
Bifidobacterium probotics. You want something from a reputable lab where they ship cold and the probotic stays cold. There should be several strains in the billions. The place I used is in Nevada I can offer up the website but doubt they will ship overseas. Some of the European pharmacies might be able to compound this probotic for you or a teaching institution. It is certainly worth searching out. Use your phone and Internet, talk to teaching hospitals' GI or pharmacy departments. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So did the Bifidobacteria combo you got actually reduce/remove your diarrhea? Sounds like it! Do you have to continuously take the Bifido supplement forever or is there a point you are back to normal?Since you have started on this, have you re-tried the CDSA test to see whether it comes back far more positive on Bifido?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Oh, couple of more questions Hester. (1) Is it Moss Nutritionals you went to? Is there a website for Moss?(2) What is ND stand for?(3) Did you use other types of probiotics that never worked? In particular, did you ever try VSL#3 (I did and it really didn't do anything).Thanks again, so curious!
 

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(3) Did you use other types of probiotics that never worked? In particular, did you ever try VSL#3 (I did and it really didn't do anything).
Maybe you can name which you tried? Because I tried Align, Digestive Advantage, Probio 7, some other not known brand (but all these probiotics were not cold and just in capsules) and they also did nothing (or almost nothing) to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have tried Align, Culturelle, Metagenics Ultra Bifido DF (I think that was the name), to name the major ones. I also tried VSL #3. I have also read that other than HPI techniques (using fecal implant), there is no way to get the bacteria from these supplements to actually stay in our gut, and that the flora from these supplements will last only 1 or 2 weeks and then transient out versus going the faecal implant route which the claim is puts the proper bacteria that can adhere to the intestines back into the system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Trust me, feel your pain. I am absolutely certain that at some level my gut flora is at issue, but I have never found a product that solves the problem, and so left with immdodium and other strategies for now until someone finds the smoking gun for me!
 

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I have posted the cites before and you cannot buy this product without a doctor or at the very least the Geneva lab stool test showing what your a missing in your gut flora. I have tried every probotic I think of and many that were recommended here. None of them did anything, a couple made me worse and some gave me cramps. I have SIBO too. I do see a GI doctor from a teaching hospital. He is needed to order the COMPREHENSIVE STOOL TEST FROM GENEVIA http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/ THIS IS A SPECIALIZED LABORATORY IN THE U.S. They perform a five day stool test for pathogens and analyze gut flora. Many MDs think this is a BIG waste because they have no idea what to do with the information. I was lucky enough to find (I called and called) a doctor that believes in the usefulness of knowing this information. My Natropathic doctor is also a dietician - well a supplement specialist. An ND or alternative practitioner is the ONLY doctor that might be able to do a LIVE BLOOD CELL ANALYSIS. She came recommended from a neighbor and I got lucky. I would say you have to call around to see what alternative practitioner might do this test (they do NOT have to be an ND). Reading it is KEY and many who have it will try to sell you 1000 dollars worth of supplements and detox teas. So, beware!!!! I know what live blood should look like and wanted to SEE mine in order to see if there was a bacteria in there and to see if she had some ideas how to heal my gut. It took me on the journey to meditate each morning to relieve my depression, anger and stress, change to natural foods, take better liquid supplements, found the bacteria which I told my GI MD that I wanted to take Tetracycline (an broad antibiotic for the GI). MY MD did NOT argue with me and WROTE the script for the RX. (Surprise - not an ######!) I use the MD/GI for regular check ups, tests, those fun upper and lowers, to check out my supplements and diet changes to see if he thinks I'm wacked or on the right track. He is a very forward thinking MD. This is some info on the ND's or alternative therapy and what the Live Cell or Dark Cell Analysis can do: http://livebloodlabs.com/Here is a great probotic lab if you actually find out from your MD/GI doctor and a good stool gut flora analysis you ARE missing an important florahttp://www.mossnutrition.com/I do recommend BOTH tests. They will give YOU information. The Stool test MUST be ordered by an MD.re are the cites again. I use the Factor 4 from Klaire Labs ProThera Inc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
FYI, I ordered the CDSA 2.0 test through Chrohns.net I think. There is a very nice ND that runs the site (Pamela?) and though for some reason it couldn't be shipped to NYC, I made alternate arrangements to have it come to NJ and then completed the test and sent in the samples for analysis. I still sometimes wonder whether at some point soon I shouldn't try to run the test again to just double check where I am now, especially on the parasite and bacteria portion of the test. I was stunned when I saw myself NG for bifido which I thought was the most common bacteria in the large intestine that is measurable. I was also surprised since I had done so many pro bio supplements including VSL #3, that my other measures weren't that strong either. I thought you should really be a 3+ for most of these categories.So Hester, have you tried the test again after feeling better, to see how the results look? I think that is the clincher. If you feel better but the test results show no change, I wonder what that means about the test! Oh well, anyway, I will try the Klaire products if not to just see if a more bifido focused supplement might not be a better way to go. Previous pro bios have always been more broad band, though I still do take Florastor and Culturelle again recently which are much more specific but narrowly focused.
 

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I am better but not perfect. Still have some D and bad days but I have SIBO too. I plan on repeating the test if my new doctors think it is a good idea, maybe in a year. Otherwise, I have considered a fecal transplant to put the bacteria back. I hear those can work too . . . for a while. Nothing seems like a total cure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Is it similar to moss's probiotics,?
I took a quick look and unlike the product Hester is taking, this product has a combination of bugs but not just strictly bifido.Hester, regarding fecal implantation, I have been fascinated by it since I had a doctor friend here tell me about a colleague who has cleared up C. Difficile in his research using fecal implantation.However, since then and reading the web for HPI procedures, I see the only main place where they practice this beyond some experimental work with c. difficile appears to be in Australia (Dr. Borody). Thing that scares me is (1) it appears from IBS people's experience to be hit or miss as to whether it works and (2) even if it initially works, appears even in those cases to be transient or at least for the one person I saw on this board who did it, they suggested it would wear off after 6 months.Now who knows what may be the reason for the 6 month only effect? Maybe he/she went back to their old ways of eating, and then things in their bowel just died off. Perhaps they should have continued taking probiotics after the process to refresh and keep the new bugs in friendly company. Who knows! Problem is there are just little anecdotes here and there but no consistent study and reference point for the use of this technique with IBS.This all said, trust me, I'd do it in a heartbeat if I felt somehow this was the magic bullet. I just am so scared it will take me the opposite direction. I particularly hate that they first pump you up with antibiotics first...
 

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I took a quick look and unlike the product Hester is taking, this product has a combination of bugs but not just strictly bifido.
But it should not harm, should it? More "good" bacteria is better I believe. As I understood from Hester story, that the main difference in probiotics was that moss probitotics are cold and have billions of bacteria.I just rechecked again Factor 4 probiotic and yeah there is a difference that it contains 4 different types of bifido and probiotics which I mentioned contains 3 differnet types of "bugs" (and one of them is bifido).
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't think I have ever been harmed by any pro bio product, but the real question is whether it helps! So I guess the answer is I doubt it will harm you (unless there is something there which shouldn't be), but otherwise I am not sure if it is really helping whether there is a real point to it.By the way, I have found other sources for the Factor 4 probiotic that do not require RN or doctors involved. That noted, I will see whether the source i purchased it from will pack it right and with ice or whether this will be a disaster and some fly by night operation that just shoves it in a manilla folder and sends my way. Clearly not right.
 

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I wanted to comment on the fecal infusions.They can be very beneficial especially for those suffering from cdiff. After 7mos of this illness I decided to give them a try. I research a lot, spoke to the clinic(dr borody) read the reports. It is a procedure that is done for both cdiff & IBS with great success.As for my experience it did clear the cdiff, but I'm suffering from apparent post IBS. If I do them again(which I'm considering) I will do a taper method and continue for a year at once a month.
 
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