[SpAsMaN*]

Is that possible that a bacteria who produce fungus and toxins in the bowel disrupting the flora balance?something must create ibs in general to affect 20%of the population!!Anyway the 5-htp theory dosen't help anyone againand zelnorm is not a cure as i see at the moment.

 

[SpAsMaN*]

www.greatplainslaboratory.comanother labs with yeast overgrow test.Anyone know about them?i'm asking me if someone know how to change my user name?

 

[meckle]

Interesting link dreamers.So yeast-sceptics - what do you have to say about this Dr Shaw fellow ? (see dreamers link)

 

[flux]

quote:something must create ibs in general to affect 20%of the population!

It's not yeast or fungus in any percent.

 

[kel1059]

Dreamers,excellent find!!! i have been saying and thinking these things for several years. It is nice to finally see it backed up. It is just like i thought --- our doctors are going around with their Mr. Magoo glasses on (for those who do not know --- mr.magoo was a cartoon klutz who bumped into everything)

quote: Questions & Answers With Dr. ShawDr. Shaw discusses microbial metabolites in autism, developmental disorders, illness and various conditions. This interview is reccomended reading for people seeking information on bowel disorders, candida, and dybiosis (and links to those subjects lead here).How did you get interested in the role of urinary metabolites of microorganisms and their role in human conditions? I became interested in using gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC/MS) to detect abnormal microbial metabolites when I worked at the Center for Disease Control (CDC). At CDC, GC/MS was used to identify the species of pure cultures of isolated bacteria. I wondered why you couldn't directly test human body fluids directly for products of microorganisms. Later, while working at Children's Mercy Hospital, the pediatric hospital for the University of Missouri at Kansas City Medical School, I became interested in the role of abnormal urinary metabolites while evaluating two brothers who had autism as well as occasional muscle weakness (Clin Chem 41:1094-1104,1995). Since some inborn errors of metabolism are associated with muscle weakness, I was really looking for metabolites characteristic of these conditions which were all negative. Instead, I noticed that several unusual compounds were consistently elevated. None were adequately described in the medical literature. Colleagues in the field of metabolic diseases said they were probably from gut flora (microorganisms). Since several of these compounds were analogs (altered forms) of normal Krebs cycle compounds, I thought these compounds might be significant, perhaps as anti-metabolites. At the same time, I was testing the culture media of a large number of different yeast and bacteria strains from the human gastrointestinal tract in order to find out which compounds in the human might be derived from the yeast and bacteria. During the same time period, I began a collaborative study of evaluating urine samples of patients with schizophrenia obtained by Dr. Gattaz at the Central Mental Health Institute of Germany in Mannheim. These samples were very valuable since they were obtained from patients who were drug-free. Thus, any biochemical abnormalities would be due to their condition and not a drug effect. A child with an acute psychotic reaction had been tested when relatively well and then was tested again during the psychotic reaction had a much higher level of a compound derived from tyrosine during the psychosis than when he was well. A colleague in the field suggested that this compound was derived from microorganisms in the intestine. The compound that was elevated in this child during the psychotic episode was also found in a large percentage of the adults with schizophrenia. Since tyrosine is the raw material used by the body for the production of neurotransmitters, I suspected that this product might be very important. TopWhen did you even begin to suspect the connection between human disease and yeast abnormalities in Krebs cycle metabolism?The compound that led to the discovery was tartaric acid. The brothers with autism and severe muscle weakness had extremely high values of tartaric acid in their urine. Another child with autism had a urine value of tartaric acid 600 times than that of normal children. The only source of tartaric acid is yeast. This compound forms a sludge in the wine brewing process and has to be removed. Wine is sugar fermented by yeast to alcohol and other products. Humans do not produce this material. When I pulled the medical charts of several other children with autism, they had similar abnormalities and immediately I entertained a possible causal connection. The next step seemed obvious. If these compounds were from yeast and were causing some of the symptoms of autism, antifungal drugs which kill yeast should reduce some of the symptoms of autism. At that time a two year old boy was currently being evaluated for autism at the hospital where I worked and I had just done the organic acid test. The child had been developing normally up to about 18 months of age and had a vocabulary of 100 words. He was treated several times for ear infections with antibiotics and developed thrush (a Candida or yeast infection of the mouth and tongue). His behavior deteriorated quickly after that. He lost all speech, became extremely hyperactive, woke up all night long, lost eye contact with his parents and was diagnosed with autism. His organic acids that I thought were due to the yeast, including tartaric acid, were very elevated. The neurologist at the hospital would not prescribe the antifungal drug Nystatin for the child so the parents and I convinced an outside pediatrician to prescribe it. The child's eye contact returned by the following day and the elevated organic acids decreased markedly, although it took 60 days to return to the normal values. Tartaric acid is a muscle toxin and as little as 12 grams have been fatal to a human. (One gram is about the weight of a cigarette.) Tartaric acid is also extremely elevated in many patients with fibromyalgia who also have muscle and joint pain. A large percentage of patients with fibromyalgia respond favorably to treatment with malic acid. Tartaric acid is an analog (close chemical relative) of malic acid. Malic acid is a key intermediate in the Krebs cycle, a process used for the extraction of most of the energy from our food. Presumably tartaric acid is toxic because it inhibits the biochemical function of the normal compound, malic acid. I presume that supplements of malic acid are able to overcome the toxic effects of tartaric acid by competition at the enzyme level. TopIn these two brothers with autistic features, can you explain where these Krebs cycle metabolites came from and how they might effect behavior? Most of the abnormal metabolites are almost surely from yeast and/or fungi in the gastrointestinal tract since they decline following an antifungal drug, Nystatin that is not absorbed into the bloodstream. Many, but not all, autistic children have a background of frequent infections (especially otitis media) which are treated with broad spectrum antibiotics. One parent reported that her child had 50 consecutive ear infections before he was 5 years old. Some children, however, may have elevated metabolites after only a single antibiotic exposure. Over 700 articles in the medical literature document antibiotic stimulation of yeast growth.Since both early onset and high frequency of otitis media are associated with greater severity of autism (J Autism and Dev Dis 17:585,1987 ), a yeast connection seemed worthwhile to evaluate. Many children with autism have a history of developing normally and then regressing. This regression is often associated with thrush (a yeast infection of the mouth and tongue) and/or frequent antibiotic use. TopMany children who use antibiotics never develop autism. Doesn't this disprove your hypothesis?Many smokers never develop lung cancer and a small percentage of people who develop lung cancer have never smoked. Nevertheless, there is little doubt that smoking causes lung cancer. Who gets lung cancer and who survives depends on other genetic and environmental factors. I have found that these metabolites are not specific for autism but may also be associated with other neurological conditions such as attention deficit hyperactivity, seizures, learning disabilities, or speech disorders. In one set of identical twins, one of the twins was autistic while the other was not autistic but had speech difficulty. The factors that influence which condition is present probably include which metabolites are elevated, how high their concentrations are, how long the exposure to these products lasts, the number of exposures, and differences in the ability to detoxify these products. Other significant modulating factors in autism and other yeast-related illnesses are immunodeficiencies which are very common in autism and may be present in other disorders as well. Some individuals may be so immunodeficient that even a single antibiotic exposure may alter the gut flora significantly. Sudhir Gupta MD, a clinical immunologist in California estimates that a high percentage of autistic children have a significant immune dysfunction and may include myeloperoxidase deficiency, a genetic deficit that impairs yeast killing by the white blood cells, IgA deficiency, complement C4b deficiency, IgG deficiency, or IgG subclass deficiency. In one case, Gupta obtained complete remission of autism by infusions of gamma globulin (a concentrate of human antibodies). I saw the before and after videotapes of this child and the transformation is remarkable. Environmental toxins might also be important in weakening the immune system. The news is full of incidents of marine life (seals, dolphins, and fish) with unusual infections or tumors following exposure to PCB's and other toxins. TopMy doctor says everyone has yeast in their intestine and if yeast were the cause of all these disorders then everyone would be adversely affected. How do answer that assertion? The most important question is not whether yeast are present or not. The critical factors are the quantity of yeast and the kinds and amounts of toxic products they produce. Everyone in this society has carbon monoxide in their blood and can tolerate a low value. When the amount of carbon monoxide increases, some individuals feel depressed, some have headaches, some feel tightness in the chest or angina, some experience nausea and vomiting, some become dizzy, some develop dimming of vision. As values increase, symptoms may include convulsions, coma, respiratory failure, and death. Individuals who recover from severe carbon monoxide poisoning may suffer residual neurological damage.Different people will respond with different symptoms to the same concentration of carbon monoxide. Why is it surprising that exposure to a wide range of toxic yeast products at different times and at different ages might produce different symptoms? If I suggested that there were a carbon monoxide connection with all of the diverse symptoms associated with carbon monoxide exposure, no one would challenge me. The reason that the carbon monoxide connection is accepted is because carbon monoxide can be easily measured in blood. The toxic yeast products were just discovered, but as knowledge of them increases, acceptance of the yeast-related illnesses will increase. The philosopher Schopenhauer said, "All truth goes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Within five years, people who ignore the importance of yeast-related illness will be in the same camp with those in the Flat-Earth Society.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/autisminterview.html ....

 

[kel1059]

i have suspected that yeast plays a role in not only CFIDS and fibro but many conditions. maybe this is why Dr Carol Jessop has had a lot of success treating her patients with antifungals. however, this appraoach does NOT seem to solve the whole problem. I suspect that CFIDS is a very complicated condition and it takes a very disclipined and multifactorial approach to getting it under control.

quote: FibromyalgiaYeast Byproducts in Fibromyalgia PatientsPlease note: Although this article frequently refers to Fibromyalgia, the information also applies to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.Fibromyalgia & Yeast (page 1) Tartaric acid? Where the Yeast is and Why it Causes Problems Figure 1 - Tartaric Inhibition in the Krebs Cycle Figure 2 - Effects of Nystatin on Urine Tartaric Acid Contributing Factors (page 2) Figure 3 - Factors that Contribute to Yeast Overgrowth Testing - What to Expect, and How it can Help Frequently Asked Questions About Yeast Testing Notes on Our Testing from the book Detoxification and Healing: The Key to Optimal Health References Order a Test Kit Fibromyalgia & YeastAccording to William Crook, MD, the author of twelve books and numerous medical articles, "CFS/CFIDS and FMS are often yeast-related.…Increasing evidence shows that a sugar-free special diet and antifungal medications may help people with these chronic disorders get well." (1). At The Great Plains Laboratory, some of the reasons that yeast overgrowth causes so many problems are becoming clear. We have found that patients with fibromyalgia have abnormally high levels of yeast and fungal metabolites in the urine. One of the most prevalent of these yeast or fungal metabolites is called tartaric acid. We have found that this compound can be elevated as high as 50 times normal in adults with fibromyalgia.TopTartaric acid?Tartaric acid is a muscle toxin. When administered to experimental animal, tartaric acid causes muscle damage. In fact, as little as 12 grams have been fatal to a human (3). (One gram is about the weight of a cigarette.)The main natural source of tartaric acid is yeast (2). The process in the body is similar to the wine brewing process, where tartaric acid forms a sludge and has to be removed from the final product (2). Wine is essentially sugar fermented by yeast into alcohol and byproducts. Of course, humans do not produce this material. However, when yeast in the intestinal tract are fed sugar from the diet, they produce tartaric acid--just like the yeast in the wine-making process does.Tartaric acid is also extremely elevated in many patients with fibromyalgia who also experience muscle and joint pain. Tartaric acid was initially discovered by Dr. Shaw, Director of the Great Plains Laboratory, in the urine of two autistic brothers with muscle weakness so severe that they could not stand up (4). TopWhere the Yeast is & Why it Causes ProblemsTartaric acid is an analog (or close chemical relative) of malic acid. Malic acid is a key intermediate in the Krebs cycle, a biochemical process used for the extraction of most of the energy from our food. Presumably tartaric acid is toxic because it inhibits the biochemical production of the normal compound, malic acid. Tartaric acid is a known inhibitor of the Krebs cycle enzyme fumarase (Figure 1) which produces malic acid from fumaric acid (5). A large percentage of patients with fibromyalgia respond favorably to treatment with malic acid (6). I presume that supplements of malic acid are able to overcome the toxic effects of tartaric acid by supplying deficient malic acid. Treatment with the antifungal drug Nystatin kills the yeast and values for tartaric acid steadily diminish with antifungal treatment (Figure 3).Fifty percent of patients with fibromyalgia often suffer from hypoglycemia (7)--low blood sugar--even though their diet may have adequate or even excessive sugar. The reason may be due to the inhibition of the Krebs cycle by tartaric acid. The Krebs cycle is the main provider of raw materials such as malic acid that can be converted to blood sugar (Figure 2) when the body uses up its supply. If sufficient malic acid cannot be produced, the body cannot produce the sugar glucose which is the main fuel for the brain. The person with hypoglycemia feels weak and their thinking is foggy because there is insufficient fuel for their brain.Top

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/fibromyalgia.html ....

 

[kel1059]

The evidence mounts. Since so many of us have multiple "syndromes" this looks like it could be the reason why dr Carol Jessop has had success treating her patients with antifungals. However, i also think that dr dantini's anti-viral approach is something that can't be ignored. Could some people be suffering from "measles of the gut"?????? --- and how about bacteria that could be kicking out toxic compounds???

quote: http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/fibromyalgia2.html FibromyalgiaYeast Byproducts in Fibromyalgia Patients Fibromyalgia & Yeast (page 1)  Tartaric acid?  Where the Yeast is and Why it Causes Problems  Figure 1 - Tartaric Inhibition in the Krebs Cycle  Figure 2 - Effects of Nystatin on Urine Tartaric Acid  Contributing Factors (page 2)  Figure 3 - Factors that Contribute to Yeast Overgrowth  Testing - What to Expect, and How it can Help  Frequently Asked Questions About Yeast Testing  Notes on Our Testing from the book Detoxification and Healing: The Key to Optimal Health  References  Order a Test Kit Contributing FactorsMost of the time the yeast are present only in the intestinal tract, not in the blood and other organs. However, the tartaric acid and other compounds produced by yeast in the intestine are absorbed into the bloodstream and may enter all of the cells of the body.Dr. St Anand noticed that patients with fibromyalgia had high amounts of dental tartar on their teeth and speculated that similar deposits in the muscles and ligaments might be causing the pain of fibromyalgia. It's possible that tartaric acid is the compound found in the dental tartar and that crystals of this substance may be causing the muscle and joint pain, just as kidney stones cause kidney pain. The two main causes of the yeast overgrowth are use of broad-spectrum antibiotics and the high sugar and carbohydrate content of the American diet (Figure 3). These antibiotics kill most of the normal bacteria (germs) in the intestinal tract, but do not kill organisms such as yeast (8-15). As a matter of fact, some yeast grow faster in the presence of antibiotics. The reason fibromyalgia commonly follows traumatic accidents may be related to the use of antibiotics to treat trauma. Sugar consumption is the second major factor in causing yeast-related illnesses. The average American consumes 10 times more sugar than Americans in the time of George Washington(about 150 lb per year). In a study done in mice, those mice receiving sugar in their water had 200 times more yeast in their intestine than mice receiving plain water (16). Other factors that cause yeast overgrowth may include stress, birth control pills, viral infections, and a weak immune system.Testing - What to Expect, and How it can HelpSome doctors assert that everyone has yeast in their intestine, and if yeast were the cause of fibromyalgia, everyone would suffer from fibromyalgia-like symptoms. However, the important question is not about the presence of yeast. The critical factors are the quantity of yeast and the kinds and amounts of toxic products they produce.To illustrate: everyone in our society has carbon monoxide in their blood and can tolerate a low value. However, when the amount of carbon monoxide increases, some individuals feel depressed, some have headaches, some develop muscle weakness, some feel tightness in the chest or angina, some experience nausea and vomiting, some become dizzy, and some develop dimming of vision. As amounts of carbon monoxide increase, symptoms may include convulsions, coma, respiratory failure, and death. Individuals who recover from severe carbon monoxide poisoning may suffer residual neurological damage. Different people will respond with different symptoms to the same concentration of toxins. So why would it be surprising that exposure to a wide range of toxic yeast products--at different times and at different ages--might produce different symptoms? No one would challenge a suggestion of a connection between carbon monoxide and all of the diverse symptoms associated with carbon monoxide exposure. That connection is accepted because carbon monoxide is easily measured in blood. The toxic yeast products were just discovered, but as knowledge of them increases, acceptance of the yeast-related illnesses will increase. As the philosopher Schopenhauer said, "All truth goes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Within five years, people who ignore the importance of yeast-related illness will be in the same camp with those in the Flat-Earth Society. TopFrequently Asked Questions About Yeast TestingWhat can I do about this problem if I have it? The yeast problem can be treated with a combination of a low sugar/low carbohydrate diet, an antifungal drug to kill the yeast, and probiotics, which are supplements of Lactobacillus acidophilus to restore beneficial bacteria to the intestinal tract. Malic acid and magnesium supplements will help the patient until the yeast problem is resolved (which may take about two months). The reduction in tartaric acid in urine following antifungal treatment is illustrated in Figure 2.Top |OrderWhat other information will I get from your test? The test evaluates inborn errors of metabolism that can be detected with this technology (called GC/MS, such as PKU, maple-syrup urine disease, and many others). In addition, we check for other problems such as vitamin deficiencies and the abnormal metabolism of catecholamines, dopamine, and seretonin We currently quantitate 62 substances, but also evaluate other substances that are not quantitated. For example, in one report, high kynurenic acid indicated a need for vitamin B-6, and an elevated glutaric acid indicated a requirement for coenzyme Q-10. Even if you don't have the yeast problem, our test may still be beneficial to you!Top |OrderHow do I get the test done? A medical practitioner who is licensed to order urine testing in your state must approve the test order. Regulations vary from state to state so an approved medical practitioner could be a medical doctor (MD), osteopath (DO), nurse practitioner, chiropractor (DC), or naturopath (ND). If you have difficulty in getting your physician to approve the test, we can refer you to a physician in most locations in the United States and in some foreign countries. The test is reimbursed by most insurance companies but, of course, we cannot guarantee reimbursement. The test requires that a morning urine sample be shipped to The Great Plains Laboratory, and results are usually available within two weeks, including a recommendation to your physician for treatment.Top |OrderWill drugs or nutritional supplements interfere with the test?No, there is no interference from any known drug or supplement. The malic acid and magnesium products will not affect the test results.However, if antifungal supplements or drugs are taken before the test, you will probably get a lower value for the yeast byproducts. We advise you to get the test first so that you will know what the starting point is. Top |OrderI have been disabled due to the severity of my fibromyalgia, but have not been able to get benefits. Could this test help me to get benefits?This test could benefit you if we document a defined biochemical disorder. Of course, more important is the possibility of reversing the fibromyalgia if the yeast problem is a significant factor.Top |OrderWhat can I do if my physician doesn't understand the test results? We will be glad to help you and your physician develop a suitable therapy based on your test results.Top |OrderI have an HMO, and they have to send the test to a certain lab. Is that okay? Unfortunately, no. There is no other laboratory that routinely analyzes the same compounds as this laboratory (including Labcorp, SmithKline, or Mayo Medical laboratories). If you do not specify our laboratory, your urine will be sent to one of the large reference labs which cannot accurately evaluate your condition. Most of these labs only test for inborn errors of metabolism.Top |OrderWhat about reimbursement for Medicaid and Medicare? We are set up for Medicare, but we do not yet have Medicaid authorization.Top |OrderI don't have insurance and can't afford the price. Can you help me? We would be happy to work out an installment plan for you. We can also accept MasterCard and VISA payments. Top |OrderNotes on Our Testing from the Book Detoxification and Healing: the Key to Optimal Health"Dr. Shaw's work is very recent and as I write this he has just opened a new lab… The reason for telling you about his work is to ask you to think about the implications and watch as his ideas develop over the next few years. As you will see...there is other evidence to support these ideas and, if you understand the implications, there are things you can do now that will reduce your risk of ill health while continuing to watch from the sidelines." Dr. Baker, the author of Detoxification and Healing, is a graduate of Yale University School of Medicine and is board certified in obstetrics and pediatrics. Dr. Baker was director of the Gessell Institute of Human Development and has taught at Yale Medical School, and is the author of dozens of articles and several books about health and nutritional biochemistry. (Return to page 1.)Top |OrderReferences 1. Crook William. The Yeast Connection Handbook. Jackson,TN,1997:34-35. 2. "Tartaric acid." Microsoft Encarta 96 Encyclopedia on CD ROM. 3. Webster R. Legal Medicine and Toxicology. WB Saunders, Philadelphia, 1930: 413-414. 4. Shaw W, Kassen E, and Chaves E. "Increased excretion of analogs of Krebs cycle metabolites and arabinose in two brothers with autistic features." Clinical Chemistry 41:1094-1104, 1995. 5. Mahler H and Cordes. Biological Chemistry. New York, Harper and Row. 1966: 417-418. 6. Holzschlag Molly. "CoQ10, malic acid, and magnesium may improve CFIDS/FM symptoms." The CFIDS Chronicle, Summer 1993. 7. St Amand RP. "Exploring the fibromyalgia connection." The Vulvar Pain Newsletter. Fall 1996, 4-6. 8. Kennedy M and Volz P "Dissemination of yeasts after gastrointestinal inoculation in antibiotic-treated mice." Sabouradia 21:27-33, 1983. 9. Danna P, Urban C, Bellin E, and Rahal J. "Role of Candida in pathogenesis of antibiotic associated diarrhea in elderly patients." Lancet 337: 511-14, 1991. 10. Ostfeld E , Rubinstein E, Gazit E, Smetana Z. "Effect of systemic antibiotics on the microbial flora of the external ear canal in hospitalized children." Pediat 60: 364-66, 1977. 11. Kinsman OS, Pitblado K. "Candida albicans gastrointestinal colonization and invasion in the mouse: effect of antibacterial dosing, antifungal therapy, and immunosuppression." Mycoses 32:664-74,1989. 12. Van der Waaij D. "Colonization resistance of the digestive tract-mechanism and clinical consequences." Nahrung 31:507-17, 1987. 13. Samonis G and Dassiou M. "Antibiotics affecting gastrointestinal colonization of mice by yeasts." Chemotherapy 6: 50-2, 1994. 14. Samonis G, Gikas A, and Toloudis P. "Prospective evaluation of the impact of broad-spectrum antibiotics on the yeast flora of the human gut." European Journal of Clinical Microbiology & Infectious Diseases 13:665-7, 1994. 15. Samonis G, Gikas A, and Anaissie E. "Prospective evaluation of the impact of broad-spectrum antibiotics on gastrointestinal yeast colonization of humans." Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy 37: 51-53, 1993. 16. Vargas S, Patrick C, Ayers G, and Hughes W. "Modulating effect of dietary carbohydrate supplementation on Candida albicans colonization and invasion in a neutropenic mouse model." Infection and Immunity 61:619-626,1993.

 

[kel1059]

quote: Tartaric acid is a muscle toxin.

Tartaric acid could be just one of several toxic compounds that cause the colon to do some very strange things. Toxins could be behind constipation, pain, cramps even diarrhea.I suspect that many things could be going on. for me, a lot of it hinges on the type of food i eat. It seems that my IBS responds to a few things: oligoantigenic diet, antibacterial and antifungal herbs/garlic, and Ibsacol to straighten out prostaglandins and leukotrienes. --and yet as soon as i eat an intolerant food, I regress. i know it is my immune system. maybe it just needs time to straighten out.

 

[SpAsMaN*]

i want to get test there but i have no proof that i'm gonna find my cure through that.some test are around 200$.they answer me that i should getting better but i'm confused in all the details on the web site.I have a lot of symptoms like muscle ache,gastro-urino sensibility who are as they explain in the web site.It sound real but i already spend a lot of money in LEAP and a Florida lab who test for food intolerance whithout results...Yeast seems to be in all parts of my body;my teeth are sugar sensitive,tartaric acid burn my muscle!!!!

 

[sick.n.tired]

I'm not so sure yeast overgrowth is the main culprit for me. I was trying to find relief for my IC (Interstitial Cystitis--basically feels like a UTI all the time except there is usually no sign of infection) and came across The Yeast Connection (by William Cook, MD). I went to my GP and suggested that I had a yeast problem. After reviewing my lifelong history of health problems and treatments, he agreed and gave me a prescription for Diflucan (25 mg) to be taken once a day for 30 days. I had started the anti-yeast diet 2 weeks previous to taking the Diflucan. I'll admit that by the end of the 30 days I felt 100% better (and had lost 10 lbs.). However, 2.5 years later the IC came back and that time no sort of anti-yeast meds or diets helped at all. I went into remission again and then the IC came back another 2.5 years later. This time I started right away on anti-yeast treatments and yet again, no help at all. My guess is that the first time I tried the anti-yeast treatments I was coincidentally about to go into remission anyway. By the way, I have seen no change in my IBS as a result of the anti-yeast treatments either. Sorry to have to be a wet blanket. I have learned to be wary of treatments that are supposed to "cure" a wide range of chronic, previously incurable ailments. They're nice ideas and the theories do seem to make sense. I think it's worth a try; how else are you going to know if it works for you? However, I wouldn't pin all my hopes on it. Also, don't anti-fungals lead to liver damage with prolonged use? I've even tried the herbal anti-fungals with no luck. I suppose it could be that yeast overgrowth was once part of the problem and being sick from that for so long somehow rearranged my nervous system such that I continue to feel pain and experience symptoms even though the original cause is gone. ?????? I'm beginning to resign myself to spending the next 60 years of my life (assuming I'm as long-lived as my relatives) feeling sick. I'd rather get on living even though I don't feel great than spend the rest of my life being upset, frustrated, and depressed over not knowing why I'm sick or how to feel better. Blah. Trying to sort all this out gives me a headache.

 

[kel1059]

quote: Sudhir Gupta MD, a clinical immunologist in California estimates that a high percentage of autistic children have a significant immune dysfunction and may include myeloperoxidase deficiency, a genetic deficit that impairs yeast killing by the white blood cells, IgA deficiency, complement C4b deficiency, IgG deficiency, or IgG subclass deficiency. In one case, Gupta obtained complete remission of autism by infusions of gamma globulin (a concentrate of human antibodies). I saw the before and after videotapes of this child and the transformation is remarkable. Environmental toxins might also be important in weakening the immune system. The news is full of incidents of marine life (seals, dolphins, and fish) with unusual infections or tumors following exposure to PCB's and other toxins.

I think that there might be some type of impaired immune function.I have to agree with sick-n-tired that pinning all of our hopes on yeast or fungus is a longshot. I believe that intestinal dysbiosis is an issue that is very likely to involve bacteria along with various fungal organisms. However, the big question is ---why can't we change our intestinal flora to overcome it??? i take VSL#3 and i hope this stuff is implanting but i bet it is not.My CDSA definitely states that I have intestinal dysbiosis. What is going on??? Is this doctor correct?? (he is a former MD who worked for the CDC in atlanta GA)

quote: I have now detected this same phenomenon in hundreds of other cases. Even after six months of antifungal treatment, there is often a biochemical "rebound" and loss of improvements after discontinuing antifungal therapy. This rebound also occurs after other antifungal drugs as well. Several explanations are possible for this phenomenon:Because of one or more defects in the immune system such as IgA deficiency, IgG deficiency, or severe combined immunodeficiency disease (SCID) which are found in most children with autism, the yeast, which are everywhere in our environment including the food we eat, repopulate the intestinal tract very rapidly. The yeast are very resistant and have not been completely eliminated even after six months of antifungal therapy The yeast have genetically transformed some of the human cells that line the intestinal tract so that some of the human cells now contain yeast DNA. These genetically transformed human cells produce both yeast and human products and are somewhat sensitive to antifungal drugs but are not killed by them and produce yeast products whenever antifungal drugs are absent. (Kel wonders...... i wonder if this could explain the theory of pleomorphism and mycrozyma??????)Some of the yeast are hidden in recesses of the intestinal tract or in the deeper layers of the mucosa that lines the intestine where they are relatively safe from the drug. Although their numbers are small, they readily repopulate the intestine after antifungals are stopped. In addition to the immune system taking inventory of its own cells, it seems increasingly likely that the immune system also takes an inventory of bacteria and yeast cells present in the intestinal tract soon after birth. This inventory is performed by a group of cells called the CD5+ B-cells, which are among the very first immunological cells to appear in the developing embryo and appear to play a role in tolerance to intestinal microorganisms in postnatal life. These cells may play a role in regulating the secretion of IgA, the antibody class that is secreted into the intestinal tract and which may select which microorganisms are tolerated in the intestinal tract. Furthermore, the eradication of normal flora especially when antibiotics are administered repetitively during infancy may cause the CD5+ cells to reject these normal organisms at a later age. Any cells that are on this early inventory may be awarded immune tolerance and will not be attacked later on by the immune system. Either antibiotic use in infancy or yeast infection of the mother during pregnancy may result in later immune tolerance to yeast.

all i know is that there is something weird going on and it involves more than just-- killing something off.

 

[flux]

quote:The evidence mounts.

I'm looking for it. Can you find it? It's not here, so where could it be?

 

[kel1059]

quote: Is that possible that a bacteria who produce toxins in the bowel disrupting the flora balance?something must create ibs in general to affect 20%of the population!!

Yes, it is very likely that many of us have an altered gut flora and that some of the bacteria are producing toxins that have a direct effect on both the immune system and the nervous system.Your link is excellent and thanks for posting it. It has done a lot to bolster my belief in the intestinal dysbiosis model of (GI symptoms) or ("IBS" symptoms) or (tummy troubles) or (pain, cramps, bloat, gas, motility issues, etc problems) or whatever random name someone wants to assign it.This is not the only reason but it definitely exists.

 

[SpAsMaN*]

kel, i know you're interesting in greatplain laboratory.They talk on their web site about symptoms like painful muscle du to tartaric acid,lost in urin of something like yeast.I found that my urin smell yeast ,my muscle hurt when i'm doing almost nothig(tartaric acid).It's a lot of similitude ...I had send e-mail and they tell me that the're not 100%sure that i can be cured.kel, if you live near the lab, go there and make an investigation and tell me with simple wordswhat is going on there.It must have something to do.the mystery still...

 

[kel1059]

dreamers,if you find more good stuff like this then post it.i am going to get to the bottom of the tarter sauce issue.