[bonniei]

I am afraid I will have to stop the discussion as no one seems to be reading the book. I believe I have quoted excessively from the book by David Burns already and I might get into copyright infringement issues if I did anymore of it. But if you don't read the books there is no other way to communicate the concepts. So I fear the discussion will have to end. Any thoughts on this?

 

[trbell]

At least one other person seems to have benefited from what you posted, bonniei.i have learned as much from your posting as a person with IBS as from all the books I've read on the subject. maybe you want to drop the reading requirement and carry on, especially when it comes to something like people with IBS where there are no RIGHT answers and authorities?Bada

 

[bonniei]

Bada it is very hard to communicate the concepts if they don't read without quoting examples of the techniques from the book. I fear that people will just come to me for advice then and as I am not a trained CB therapist I might get in way over my head. Dr Bolen also seems to be afraid of that as well as the copyright infringement issues. She suggested that the reading requirement is a must. I can see the advantages to that- if you are stuck and have read the entire book it will be easy to refer back to the book and find something which can help you out. It seems atmost nm will be reading the book. If the reading requirements are dropped, it is very hard to discuss the concepts. I might as well just discuss what I have learnt from the book about various emotions like guilt anger and worthlessness in the Meeting Place where there will be more participation.

 

[bonniei]

And yes I am glad you and science girl and perhaps evie have benefitted from it. Thanks for your comments to me.

 

[trbell]

i'm glad to hear Dr. Bolen has taken an interest. it means i can get out of the 'being-an-expert' trap if it's okay with you.but i can't resist making one more suggestion before i take off my robes: in my experience people do much better with one-page handouts or assignments than they do with books or even chapters?now i can be Bada?

 

[bonniei]

One page assignments are better I agree. But if they don't read the book it is difficult to hand out the assignments without quoting from the book. It doesn't even seem that anyone other than nm has the books. Do you have the books?

 

[bonniei]

As doctor Bolen put it," that by posting only excerpts, whether it be Dr. Burn's book or my book, BB members will not be getting the entire picture of CBT"

 

[trbell]

you might want to ask k about this? i suspect they gave some handouts when they did the study she was in. but in any case i think a reasonable amount from the books is okay for educational purposes? What i do when people don't but the book (as they usually don't), i often ask them if buting or not buying the book might be an example of black/white thinking we can use as an example? then i ask if they would at least go to the library or bookstore to see if it's available and if it is ask them to read the table of contents if the can before the next session.Tom

 

[bonniei]

Tom good suggestions but I will feel like I am pulling teeth if I had to go down to that level. If k did receive handouts and was willing to share them, would you be willing to type it all up? I really don't want to put in that much effort. If people are not interested in reading the book it is their loss as I see it. I might want to remind you you were getting paid to do all that. I am not

 

[trbell]

i understand.bada

 

[bonniei]

I want to say that this thing scares me the most- that if people don't read the books iit will become a therapy session which one day I won't be able to handle.Since I don't want to let you all down I have asked Dr Bolen to give me ideas of how to structure it so it doesn't become a therapy session. I am really at my wit's end figuring out how to do this without people reading the books. I hope all of you who wanted to participate in the book discussion understand my position. I will feel awful if you all feel I have let you down. I am awaiting Dr Bolen's reply.

 

[bonniei]

I feel particularly bad about letting nm down as I believe she got the books. Don't know if she has been reading them and has any thoughts on this topic. Just to confirm, would you all who wanted to be part of the discussion please answer- how many have bought Dr Burns' and Dr Bolen's books?

 

[bonniei]

I am sorry to post to my thread again but eric has given me great news! He said he will help out with the CBT book discussions if the forum survives and he is a part of it. Ofcourse if it survives he will be a part of it. We want you as the moderator eric. Ok come on you eric fans you have an added incentive to read the books.

Now say you are going to read the books please?

 

[trbell]

i can't tell if i am meant to respond here, bonniei? but it's fine with me if eric joins - i think you and i have worked out a way for me continue without being seen as an expert? Tom

 

[bonniei]

Yes tom, there is no need for you to be an expert because if this discussion continues and I don't know how likely it is, since no one seems to be responding, I am going to find a way of doing it without it becoming a therapy session. I would have liked your help mainly for that as I am not a trained therapist and in case there was a sticky situation I didn't know how to deal with- especially suide and things like that/.

 

[trbell]

Dr. B probably has osme thoughts here but i think you can keep it from becoming therapy if you don't try and fix the other person just give another thing to read and it's their choice whether or not they read it. As far as talk about suicide goes, that's a pretty complicated subject and i think i posted some guidelines for people to read about this before talking to someone about it online. Any kind of help if it is going to do any good has to be based on a real inperson assessment. I have in the past refuse d to talk to people about it on the phone and said they could come in to see me if they wanted or go to the er. There are some training programs for online or phone counseling for suicide prevention and it might be worth jeff's while to get some training in this for people if they want to do it. This might sound harsh but it's unrealistic for someone to expect help on this from a self-help and support bb. I'm pretty sure there's some good information available online about this if someone wants to look into it.Bada

 

[bonniei]

Good point tom, just give them more reading. But they woulfd have to be really interested in reading the book then. I think in the book discussions if they happen, we need to make a rule that suicide is not brought up as an example in any of the exercises on the board. Yes I wish Jeff had a couple of people on the board who were trained to deal with people wanting to commit suicide. That would be an easy solution then

 

[Guest]

Bonniei... I've benefited from what you've been trying to do with the CBT threads. I also think you can continue to talk about these concepts without always referring to book authors? I've never read the book either but I've had considerable experience with CBT.Maybe I could help you as you help others to hone in on their thought distortions? I'm pretty good with self-awareness....

I agree that we shouldn't be conducting CBT on a public board, but as long as we just stick to concepts and don't go into depth and try to diagnose and/or treat... we should be ok?What do you think, Tom?Evie

 

[trbell]

bonniei and I have had a number of discussions about suggesting but I think as long as people stick to suggesting solutions rather than telling people what to do there shouldn't be any problems. Even doctors learn how to suggest rather than tell even though many patients like to be told. I think by the way, bonniei, just like you saw from that one the other day, a lot of people might be reading this thread without responding. Like they say in the movies, 'if you build it they will come."bada

 

[bonniei]

Sure evie, if it is easy for you to identify distorted thoughts, your help would be great. However I hope that people will be able to do it on their own after reading the book. We can help them initially but the idea is to get people to help themselves. As far as discssing concepts go right now we are discussing a perfect human being on Tom's HT support thread. That is the kind of discussion I hope to have and if anyone wants to join in in that discussion feel free to jump in.As far as suggestions go, I don't want to be held responsible for suggesting something out of the book which goes awry in the end. Perhaps the way to handle it is by referring to specific pages in the book?