i realize many have felt inhibited in responding but I would like an answer to my question and I'll try to ask it as simply as i can.One of the charcteristics of IBS is that our perceptions aren't accurate. Does this mean that CBT gives us more accurate perceptions? has anyone tried both?I know I should be asking this question in the anxiety forum but i don't think eric will let me.tom
CBT HT 2
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This is a different question then your orginal post. Did you read Dr Bolens book by any chance? It explains CBT for IBS in depth.Also just FYIResearch supports the notion that hypnosis can transform perception http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/report/n...ypnosis-96.html
Tom,I've tried both.Firstly gut directed HT for IBS, on a one to one basis & follow up tapes. At the time (over period of approx.12 months) I didn't feel it was helping. However after further 6 months or so there were some improvements. My thoughts on this: - delayed response to HT? - other causes/lifestyle changes? - symptoms change of their own accord?Also, I've no way of knowing how bad symptoms would have been if I hadn't done HT.Certainly I didn't experience a strong cause/effect of the HT - some people experience real improvement, after practice, of HT. I feel I gave it my best shot though.Secondly, CBT for IBS, about a year later. Took therapy due to detrimental effect of IBS on life and accompanying anxiety. CBT helped to challenge negative thoughts (Cognitive element) and through 'activities' (Behavioural)helped me to resume activities etc. However, physical symptoms were not really helped and effectiveness seems to be waning with time - you possibly need to constantly practice.Thirdly, CBT for Fibromyalgia/CFS (predominantly Fibro rather than CFS symptoms). Concentrated on cognitive aspect, challenging negative thoughts and establishing realistic thoughts. This I'm finding useful as I wasn't aware how pervasive and habitual the negative thinking regarding my condition was. Unfortunately no great help with physical symptoms though possibly some help with associated anxiety and minor depression. In conclusion, I feel CBT was, for me, the more 'tangible' therapy - it highlighted unhelpful traits and enabled me to go some way to challenging and overcoming them. Finally, in answer to your question, I think CBT gives us more realistic perceptions - how do you define an 'accurate' perception anyway?
Thanks, Ian, very helpful response. I hope others will be encouraged to give their thoughts. interestinglink, eric, Spiegel has been doing good work for a long time and i think he has the same question about hypnosis in general that I am trying to get information on in relation to HT for IBS quote""But our goal is not just to verify a hypothesis. With hypnosis, we can help people modulate perceptions in ways that are therapeutically helpful." end quotewhat are the ways is a question that will be anawered in the future for hypnosis in general and I hope the what ways question for IBS will be answered in the future for IBS specifically. Once again, eric, I am not at all arguing against HT.tom
Tom, it seems that for the 1000's and more of people who have gotten considerable lasting relief from HT and the shear volume of studies on it showing that it has been effective in many treatments of conditions and that the 20 years of research on IBS that have shown it effective, seems to me its doing something positive and probably even making changes in IBS.It was only the wording in the first post that got me started on this. I would not even have jumped in like that if it was "What are peoples experinces with either CBT or HT and has anyone done both.Not "If one of the characterisitcs of IBS is misperception of what's going on down there it would seem to me that CBT would be better as it is based on accuarte thinking." As that gives the impression HT is not accurate thinking or something. And as I have said before this actually has given me and many others more focused thinking. We could say the same thing about a lot of things in that we don't know all the ways they work.To me personally this is facinating. A natural state we have almost everyday and when we learned how to really use it and focused we can help ouureselves a great deal with out side effects.I have seen so many people attack the HT on this bb over the years from lack of education on it, yes I am touchy on this subject for sure. IT has taken me years to try to educate and show people its safe and effective, and because of this 100 or more have gotten help from it via Mike's tapes, such as myself. It is no joke that I was suicidal when I foirst joined this bb. Thiry years of severe constant IBS attacks were like japanese water torture to my brain, not to mention the rest of me and I was very close to not wanting to go on living, what was the point. I am not sure if the people that have it only mildly to moderately can understand how totally bad and serious it can get. (I am not talking about anyone, but in general.) I will never be able to convey accuately the struggles and suffering I went through in those thirrty years, into words. I suspect its only those that suffer in this way that truely understand.Since HT has an excellent tract record and research that backs this up for IBS and works for most people, that is why I am so involved in all this, if it can help others so they don't go through what I did, I will fight that to no end. This is not about money. Its about accurate information and educatiion on HT and also IBS. Its only because I hung in there and continued when quite a few people battled me over this with no knowledge or education (mostly fear) in regards to it or were trying to prevent me from talking about it, (yes this also happen) that a good percentage of people have been helped here. I can give you an example and that is to go to another bb on IBS and mention it and explain it and educate people on it and see what happens.At this point it should be established on this bb that it works and can help a lot of people, thats what we as senior members with knowledge on all this should be mentioning and educating on. Yes there is no one treatment for all, but HT has been shown to help the majority of people and for most long term and not many things do that in IBS. Even if it didn't work for me I still would have recomended oit to others because of its record in IBS. Someday in the future I hope I will come here and see senior members who understand all this and IBS recommending HT or CBT or Yoga or any relaxation technique before drugs or drastic measures that are probably not needed for most.Is there more to learn in how it works, yes there is, although they have some good indications on all this and its more figuring out exactly how it works. It is a natural state however.So forgive me if I am passionate about it or if I go off when I see guessing as opposed to seriously talking about it, but I have been battling misconceptions and downright attacks on me for a long time and I am touchy on this. So far no one has been able to come up with any bad reasons on it. One person who use to be on here a long time ago would come here everyday and say it "Dangerous"or bash it or others its occult and the work of the devil, or all kinds of misconceptions on it I have try to clear up and educate on, because its under ultilized, not well understood, yet effective for IBS. How many people with IBS can it really help? If someone comes here and says its "dangerous" which it is not, then how many people take that to heart and add to its a stigma on it and won't try it and perhaps continue to suffer years for that. One reason I did it was I researched it and some people explained it well to me. I didn't even now what it was about before I joined here, I had some of the same misconceptions at first I am trying to educate and clear up on it in regards to what it is and in regards to IBS.people say here take these pills, take this over the counter, do this, do that, but really I know that most of those things don't really help the problem in IBS, although don't get me wrong I now there are good reasons for them. But here is a natural state with no side effects and its easy and enjoyable and shown effecitve for most and really seems to help the underlying condition and I have ended up fighting over this with some people, when in actuality I am trying very hard to help people in all kinds of ways not just HT from my experiences and education on IBS. So for me personally I will contiue to study these things for more answers on it and get back to you when they learn more on it and on it in regards to IBS,looking at substance P and hypnosis, at brain waves and hypnosis, a look at neurotransmitter regulation and hypnosis, a look at pain, pain gates and hypnosis, a look at para sympathetic and symapthetic gut mode and hypnosis. a look at distraction and Hypnosis. a look at the fight or flight responce and hypnosis. a look at serotonin and hypnosis. a look at pet scans in IBS and pet scans in hypnosis. a look at muscle tension and hypnosis. a look at altered perception and hypnosis. HT itself slows the gut down. HT is working on the problem down there and the problem in the brain.Ian, I like the " how do you define an 'accurate' perception anyway?" isn't that the truth.
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The things that drive me on all this is http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...=11;t=000017;p= Read Zayaka post on there. I get many emails from people who don't post to the bb like these also. I am majoryally happy to have been a part in there well being.
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