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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Kel and anyone else---Look at this question someone asked at curezone and following the answer--I don't know if I'm posting this right but I welcome responses from any doctors or board members. My quick story: 1997 hurt my body with anorexia, bulemia, and laxative abuse. I was only eating carbs and then taking laxatives or would vomit to elimate what little food was in my stomach. I wasn't even drinking much water. I was also smoking a pack of cigarettes a day at the time. I was a guy and only weighed 125 lbs. at one point. Since then, I have gained my weight back and try and eat healthy, but I have never been the same. I feel week and tired daily. My skin used to be a perfect olive color and now it's dry, red, and flushed 24/7. I feel sleepy and bloated after every meal. Symptoms get much worse after eating. I suffer from extreme anxiety since that bad diet. My memory goes off and on. My hair barely grows and my nails don't grow at all. My skin is oh so dry. I'm hypersensitive to almost all foods (soy, chocolate, caffeine, peanuts, & several others), they make my whole body swell up. I'm also hypersensitive to medications and several vitamins. Vitamin C throws my body into a major state of anxiety. If I don't eat, I start to get very dizzy, but when I eat I feel so bad. I'm starting on a candida program. Could this be the root of everything and could candida have gotten out of control during my crash diet? or could it be another cause?I deserved what I got. I was desperate to lose weight right out of high school and it became very addictive. That was the past and now I'd like to clean up this mess. Please help if you can advise or relate.The Answer---Your previous diet and lifestyle led to the formation of large amounts of stones (hundreds and thousands) in the bile ducts of the liver. If you read The Amazing Liver Cleanse (www.1stbooks.com)you will recognize that most of your symptoms are related to the presence of these stones in your liver. I recommend that you do a series of liver cleanses until all stones are gone. Along with a changed diet that suits your bodytype (see The Key to Health and Rejuvenation, also from 1stbooks.com) the liver cleanses will help you tremendously improve your physical and emotional wellbeing.With kind regards,Andreas What would you tell this guy?? I told him go to a real doctore and makes sure he hasn't done some serious damages to his organs with the anorexia before he does anyhting else.QUACKS over there I swear!! And really those books he is reccomending are HIS books... Urghh....Jenkins/Kellie
 

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i think that there is a grain of truth in almost everything. i read a few other things by this guy (supposedly he is some type of intuitive healer???????). i don't agree with a lot of what he says, but so long as there are hundreds of people like him putting forth possible answers --- then, i guess all we can do is read almost everything and then try to figure out what makes sense and what does not make sense.concerning the liver cleanse, there is definitely something to it. i had the identical lime green/yellow balls coming out of me as my friend. every thing matched up perfectly. they were very waxy. the beet juice experiment is good evidence that this stuff is not being manufactured from the epsom salts and oil. plus, the reduction in 'stones' with each flush gives me additional evidence that this is valid.the link that was posted by kmottus (the pathology guy) had to eat his words. he tried to save face by nitpicking over the exact definition of what constitutes a stone and what does not.i don't think any of us have the answers. yesterday i was reading a book on stealth viruses. for all we know, viruses could be a big factor for many of us. the HHV-6 virus is being blamed for many things. something has seriously screwed up my immune system. this could very likely be it. i know that the doctors are not doing anything about this. the fact that some of these viruses are 'hidden' explains why no one is doing anything. if things don't turn around for me soon (concerning severe food intolerances and unpredictable stool formation) then i am going to have to take a trip to florida and visit dr Dantini (his anti-viral program). i won't stop looking for the answer ever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Kel- I just thought it weird that he would give that advice with that background, so many things can be severly damaged because of anorexia. He should have said get a thorough check up to make sure your organs are where they should be as in functioning and then do the liver cleanse if everything is working ok. Who is dr dantini?? Unpredictable stool formation meaning?? Your food intolerances sound awful, my main intolerance would be garlic and onions. Kills me cause I love them -too much of either and I usually wake up barfing that night. If I don't barf I have to most horrid sour stomach. A friend met a doc who practices alternatively I am going to call him after christmas she told him all about me and how i feel and she said he thinks he could really help. I will let you know what comes of it! I am still wishy washy on the liver cleanse I am going to take my whole body cleanse during my holiday (Dec24 - Jan 4) lots of milk thislte and see what happens. I am open for ideas of course I just need to watch what i spend and I dont want to overload by doing too many things at once. Jenkins/Kellie
 

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quote:i think that there is a grain of truth in almost everything
So if something is false, then it also true? Logic?
 

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Jenkins, it was right to recommend he go to a real doctor.He also sounds like he has malnutrition, among other problem including some phycological ones.
 

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flux,intellectual arrogance can cause a lot of problems. you are the king of all people who make blanket statements about a variety of topics. you have been proven wrong by a number of people.what i have discovered is that an open mind is best. a closed mind means that the person is no longer willing to branch out and learn. instead they are very comfortable with there existing knowledge base and are only willing to expand along those narrow lines.*****************************************************************************concerning andreas, he may have a very narrow focus and therefore his advice must be taken with a grain of salt. but nonetheless, he has some important things that need to be heard.concerning the liver cleanse, ever since i did it i have noticed that a few times a month i am passing hundreds of very small white stone-like deposits. some are harder than others. the softer ones are a little bit waxy in nature. they always float in the toilet, and i don't know what they are or where they come from. My diet is extremely limited; therefore, they do not look like anything that i eat plus many are very hard. (could they be coming from the liver??????????????????)they are about the size of 4 to 10 grains of salt put together. -- or like coconut after it has been thoroughly blended.Someoen else reported this same phenomena on this board after i described it several months ago.It makes me wonder if andreas should be taken seriously. however, i am fairly convinced that our problems are much deeper than this, but still it needs to be investigated.
 

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Kel,I read the posts here on this site and found this to be a wonderful place with many wonderful people with real problems. I have been a nurse for 20 yrs and do know a few things, but am ignorant in other areas. (that is why we have specialists) I feel inclined to give my opinion on this particular posting.In regards to Jenkins and the poor guy from curezone... she was correct, that guy gave a poor answer. He needs a real Doctor because he most likely has some incredible damage to his body. His situation can be very life threatening. There are alot of people out there talking hoax with bogus remedies. (I read a boat-load on curezone) Don't get me wrong, I believe in alternative medicine when it is appropriate.I believe Eric is on track also with his answer. And all that I have read posted by Eric has been informative.Kmottus does a pretty darn good job also with correct and informative replies.As for flux, well I have to come to his defense as I believe he DOES know his stuff. He has come through for me and has been ON-THE-SPOT correct. He's been my angel in my tragic situation and I can't thank him enough.In reading your posts, it appears that you have tried everything and are an expert on them, and have multiple diagnosis's. I'm sorry your life is miserable and wish only good health for you.Please try to be a bit more respectful to the members, it does effect some of us who are trying to better our own situations.
 

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my quote from above ----
quote: i read a few other things by this guy (supposedly he is some type of intuitive healer???????). i don't agree with a lot of what he says,
to a large extent my answer also pertains to another question that was posed by jenkins about the liver cleanse. i made no comment on whether or not Andreas had good or bad advice concerning the patient who lost weight, etc.read it over again and you will see.i made a very general comment about trying to "see the bigger picture". --and that what seems to be false on the surface may be true to some degree upon closer examination.Plus, it reflects my view that allopathic medicine is either useless or even harmful due to its symptom supressing methods for chronic illness. i believe in getting to the root cause of illness and treating it as naturally as possible. concerning the flux thing ------ you are new. if you deal with flux too much i guarantee you --- you will get burned. trust me on that one. if you are trying to cozy up to him and if he is letting you --it is only because he plans on having you for lunch some day.concerning my health, most of the misery is over. i am only dealing with some nagging issues right now (plus an immune system that is improving but very slowly). my methods have reversed quite a bit of the damage done by the allopaths....
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Flux-- I have noticed this pattern you have, it seems any thread with Kel's name on it you frequent so you can rebut whatever she is saying. Well I started this thread not Kel, I appreciate her input, and perhaps I could appreciate yours if you ever actually put anything in rather than a stupid picture, with one sentence. You follow Kel around like some psychopath hell-bent on disspelling anything she has to say. Well thats fine do it on threads that she starts, stay off any thread I start unless you can discuss the topic I started with me and others. You think your so funny and so smart with your one liners but in all honesty if you can't explain why you look at it that way I will never take you seriously. How could expect anyone to do so. You act all high and mighty and it is annoying. Your thoughts mean nothing to me unless you can actually tell me why liver cleanse is rubbish.. Heck you have not even addressed what my original topic was about you have only came in here to slam kel- You are rude.
bkitepilot -- Thanks that is why I posted it, I really thought this guy gave some seriously bad advice. And no matter how natural a person wants to treat their body I think it was irresponsible to say do a liver cleanse and promote his two books in the answer. Anyone with half a brain and a desire to help should send someone like that to a doctor.
Kel-I may not agree with everything you say but I value your input please never stop posting to my posts. But I did tell you I cannot tolerate garlic, garlic being one of the most potent natural antibacterials, I don't know what else I could take any ideas?? And not to be rude but you also get all caught up with Flux, It's like you did not even read my post to you 3rd post down. Ignore Flux, especially if I started the thread he is a huge thorn that I wish would entertain less of your thoughts when he shows up. He just does this to bug you haven't you noticed? He really isn't worth your time since he cannot take the time to even respond properly, pictures and one liners should be reserved for children. Jenkins/Kellie
 

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quote: Your thoughts mean nothing to me unless you can actually tell me why liver cleanse is rubbish..
It makes no sense physiologically. One of the liver's main functions is to process toxins that we ingest normally and that are created by the body's normal metabolism. That's what the liver does. So when the does the liver need "cleaning". What is to be cleansed? The liver can be damaged, however, through repeated poisoning, alcohol, for example. But treating that is way more involved than "liver cleansing". The page is a joke It mentions many conditions that have no connection to liver damage, let alone how its puported treatment can reverse something like cirrhosis (liver damage). Usually, the only way to "cleanse" the liver of cirrhosis is by replacing it.
 

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For 20 years I never passed normal stool. It was either D or small volume C with loads of gas, bloat, pain, and extreme hypersensitivity. Now -after 20 years of misery-I am passing normal stool. However, it fluctuates based on a number of things. -Usually something that I eat will cause a temporary meltdown. *******************************************************************************Dr dantini is a doctor that came down with severe fatigue. He treated himself and others with anti-virals and he claims it works. viruses affect everyone differently (maybe some people feel toxic every day????) . We all carry them in either an active or inactive state. (QUOTE ------"Like all human herpes viruses, HHV6 and HHV7 are ubiquitous. In other words, they are so common that most of humankind has been infected at some point - usually early in life. It is not at all clear what clinical effects this virus causes." ) I think that a virus could be a likely explanation for some of our suffering - anything is possible.I suspect that the problem is going to be much more complex though. That is why I seem to only respond to multiple treatments instead of single or isolated treatments.Bacteria, viruses, fungi, toxins (heavy metal, chemical, endo, exo, myco-toxins), food intolerances, genetic weaknesses, vaccines gone bad, …….. the list is endless.It's a nightmare for some of us, but I know for a fact that allopathic medicine did nothing but drug me up on pill after pill. Some of the products that could really help us recover like the transfer factors cost a small fortune (and they are unproven -- many gain no relief). the whole thing is overwhelming. http://www.doctordantini.com/FMnargen.htm http://www.allergictofood.com/allergies.htm I wish you luck. If you feel sick every day then I can only guess that there is something in your body that is doing it to you. Either that or your liver is functioning very poorly and is not detoxifying normal metabolic byproducts (were you ever a drinker?). I had the same toxic/sick/low energy problem for 7 years. I think it was a bacteria (but not sure??? ) (my energy is still low but much better)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Now see Flux was that so hard?? I appreciate the answer that actually states what you think in a more defined manner. I do however have to ask are you positive that the liver can never get congested?? Just because it is a cleansing organ does not mean it cannot malfunction. I believe it doesn't always have to be something as severe as cirrohsis to have a liver that is not up to par. So how can you be sure that the liver cannot malfunction in a less severe nature?? Kel--Yes Virus' are nasty little buggars! I get cold sores and usually they will come in clumps, meaning I will get one and it will go away and then a couple weeks later I will usually get another smaller one (abreva works great for these by the way) So I have always believed in the damage a virus can do and obviously they can live inside you for what appears to be an eternity!! I have never been a drinker outside of the norm and I really haven't drank much ( maybe a few drinks a year) in the past three years. I get such terrible hangovers from two or three beers I just stopped! Not like it was hard, looking at a beer made me remember the hang over and it all of a sudden had a skull and crossbones on it! I will look into the links you provided. Thanks a heaping bunch for all your time. I think your great and I love how you think outside of the box. And I hope Flux realizes that not everyone has his outlook and not everyone has yours. Hopefully he will let up on you. Far as I can tell he always accuses you of not having evidence but honestly he never seems to have much evidence himself. His evidence is always what mainstream medicine believes and too many of us have dealt with mainstream medicine to know it doesn't always work and they rarely cure anything. Doctors should be called bandits, they work to mask your problems rather than reveal them and get rid of them.Jenkins/Kellie
 

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The biliary ducts could very well be clogged up. I am not sure. Another explanation is that the lemon juice and oil might cause the liver cells to give up something and from there a deposit forms into a ball and comes out.However, based on the fact that my friend, others, and me have all claimed that these lime green balls decrease down to almost nothing with each successive cleanse --- well, that tells me that something is leaving our liver and gallbladder but I'm not sure what it is.Also, everyone is different that is why people form 'true' kidney and gall stones. Who is to say that we can't form some type of waxy deposit in our biliary ducts?This is why I am still skeptical even though I have done it and seen the evidence.I bought the lemons and a beet today. I am going to do a cleanse tomorrow with the beet juice as a dye. The beet juice turns everything red including the urine. If I get any waxy balls that are lime green in the middle but red on the outside then that will be more evidence that these things are being formed inside of us -independent of the lemons, oil, and magnesium. (some cleanses don't even call for any epsom salts)Flux,Geotrichum yeast organisms can be found in the intestinal tract just ask Xtian who also had mycoplasma show up….. (whoops, wrong topic - we are discussing the liver.) Your liver answer is rather weak. I could re-phrase your question the following way concerning kidney stones. -supposing I was in denial of kidney stones -I could say, "kidney stones don't make any sense physiologically. The main function of the kidneys is to filter the blood. Therefore, why would the kidneys ever need any type of maintenance. Why would they ever form any stones?" K,The fact that you do poorly after ingesting alcohol could be a valuable clue to your condition. Alcohol is a mycotoxin (a deadly fungal toxin) (it will kill in large enough doses). Your liver is responsible for metabolizing and clearing these compounds. Maybe your liver is functioning very poorly. Maybe you feel sick all the time because your body is overwhelmed with various bacterial and fungal toxins.Are you exposed to chemical solvents at work? How about mold? Florida can support a lot of mold due to the humidity and rain. It is possible that a liver cleanse is a valuable and cheap thing to do. I don't know how much it could help but it seems like we have little to lose. What if a small deposit has clogged up one of your biliary ducts which is now creating some type of small infection ….. what if? The doctor below has written a good book. She even includes information on viruses. Cindy L. A. Jones, Ph.D http://antibioticalt.tripod.com/ The Antibiotic Alternative: The Natural Guide to Fighting Infection and Maintaining a Healthy Immune System, published 2000 (Inner Traditions) This timely book discusses the problems encountered with the overuse of antibiotics in the past 20 years. Antibiotic resistance has risen to a point that once easy to treat infections are now more difficult to treat and even life-threatening in some cases. The book addresses herbal antibiotics, the immune system, the history of infectious disease, as well as how stress affects health. Learn when to use antibiotics and when to use safe, at-home herbal treatments for infections.
 

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quote: I do however have to ask are you positive that the liver can never get congested?? Just because it is a cleansing organ does not mean it cannot malfunction.
I don't know what it means for the liver to be congested. It can get sick from a variety of causes, but you'd usually have symptoms and they'd be relevant to that particular problem. For example, certain viruses cause hepatitits. The treatment would have to treat the underlying the condition, such as in some cases of viral hepatitis, specific antiviral drugs.
 

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Kel,________________________________________________concerning the flux thing ------ you are new. if you deal with flux too much i guarantee you --- you will get burned. trust me on that one. __________Thanks for the insight. I will remain with an open mind. I enjoy all the threads so much and learn something new everday. (I have not found a forum out there that even comes close to this one.)In regards to the original thread about the liver. Everyone talks of liver disease and illness. I haven't heard anyone mention advanced symptoms such as jaundice. Stones are pretty advanced, especialy hundreds of thousands like Andreas stated. In my experience jaudice is a dead giveaway. (keep in mind most of my patients are also advanced as my main focus is Hospice and Alzheimers) I know that early in liver problems, malaise, N/V and lack of appetite are biggies. Without cracking the ol' medical books I surely can't discount what is quoted here. I do however know that beets are an excellent source for keeping the body healthy. Jenkins have you followed up on your victim from curezone? Poor guy!B~
 
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what this guy did to his body is nearly what i did to mine - and we have the same symptoms! wow. i also was anorexic straight out of highschool and my diet consisted of High Carbs. since then i also have very dry skin, anxiety, ibs, poor memory etc, my hair falls out and doesn't grow. so what could be wrong with us - all my blood tests come out just fine. sure he could go see a regular doctors, but he's probably already done that. i'm interested in any connection with bacterial overgrowth, myelin problems due to very low fat diet. other than that I cannot understand how anorexia would cause these symptoms and to suggest that he has mental problems and malnutrition is not the answer. he said he was eating right. i am too. all his problems came after the anorexia - so how are our bodies fundamentally changed yet nothign showing up on blood tests etc? can ANYONE tell me?
 

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susan,you may be on to something....
quote: It makes no sense physiologically. One of the liver's main functions is to process toxins that we ingest normally and that are created by the body's normal metabolism. That's what the liver does. So when the does the liver need "cleaning". What is to be cleansed? The liver can be damaged, however, through repeated poisoning, alcohol, for example. But treating that is way more involved than "liver cleansing". The page is a joke It mentions many conditions that have no connection to liver damage, let alone how its puported treatment can reverse something like cirrhosis (liver damage). Usually, the only way to "cleanse" the liver of cirrhosis is by replacing it.
Flux,Your answer is pure nonsense; it is silly as usual. Star trek silly!your answer makes no sense at all. it is mindless drivel. you used a lot of words to say ---NOTHING AT ALL. http://www.mercola.com/2003/aug/9/detoxifi...n_biotoxins.htm Neal Speight, M.D. may be reached at Center For Wellness in Charlotte, NC. Patricia Kane, Ph.D. at the Haverford Wellness Center in Havertown, PA. or to obtain the 'The Detoxx Book: Detoxification Biotoxins as bacteria, viruses, parasites, spirochetes, dinoflagelletes, and fungus may be within biliary sludge often creating neurotoxins impacting the CNS via the ENS, or the Second Brain (gut). The occurrence of biliary sludge may be due to prolonged fasting, low fat intake, high carbohydrate diets or exposure to pathogens. Oral use of phospholipids in a Liver Flush is also an effective intervention in addressing neurotoxic syndromes. The Liver as the Center of the StormUnhealthy bacteria have been known to colonize the liver and its biliary system. These bacteria as well as viruses, spirochetes, dinoflagellates, and the like can synthesize very long chain saturated or renegade fats (Harrington et al 1968, Carballerira et al 1998) that lead to liver toxicity, biliary congestion, impairment of prostaglandin synthesis and the release of glutathione (Ballatori et al 1990). Lipids vibrate in the cell at millions of times/second. The double bonds of the omega 6 and omega 3 lipids are the singing backbone of life expressed through their high energy level. These bonds are their vibratory song, and they absolutely carry a tune befitting every act and function in the exercise of life, providing all 70 trillion of our cells their flexible nature. When renegade fats are over represented in the cell membrane they result in off key expression, and if strong enough, may spell cellular death and apoptosis. Healing the outer leaflet of the membrane (Schachter et al 1983), comprised primarily of phosphatidylcholine, with phospholipid therapy, is our highest priority in addressing chronic illness and hypercoagulation.****************************************************************************your response is typical of your knee-jerk reaction to anything that you do not understand. you need to learn to keep your mouth shut.the liver and the thousands of biliary ducts can easily get clogged with all kinds of sludge. why is it possible for the some people to get clogged arteries but not clogged biliary ducts?if anything it would seem to be easier for the biliary ducts to get clogged than arteries.
 

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all i know is that i have these white waxy things coming out of me periodically. some of them are cylindrical. they are shaped like they have been formed in some type of narrow vessel. some might be approx 6mm by 1 mm in diameter. --but most are small and round 1mm by 1mm.the long ones look like minature grains of rice except the ends are not rounded like rice.my liver flush experiments have yielded the lime green 'cholesterol' balls -- dozens and dozens of them. --but the second flush resulted in a great dropoff in numbers of cholesterol balls.this tells me that they are being reduced and this is the universal experience reported by people who do the flush.
 

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quote: It makes no sense physiologically. why? i mean WHY? (actually i don't want you to tell me why because you don't have a 'WHY'. all you have is more silly nonsense.) One of the liver's main functions is to process toxins that we ingest normally and that are created by the body's normal metabolism. SO? what is your point? do you have a point? no -- you have no point with this silly sentence. it is irrelevant. That's what the liver does. So when the does the liver need "cleaning". when ..need cleaning? maybe under special circumstances problems buildup and the liver no longer is able to keep up with a series of minor assaults heaped upon it. a million things can happen. some people get clogged arteries in the heart or the carotid artery -- things happen. What is to be cleansed? biliary ducts! PAY ATTENTION!!! MAYBE THE CELLS OF THE LIVER MIGHT ALSO BE HOLDING on to cellular debris.
dim lightbulb? i think so.
 
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