[pronin2]

HMM..I went to see a gut-neuro specialist here in houston, dr mathias. I have been diagnosed with ibs-d and gastroparesis(slowed stomach emptying). This dr says that I may not have ibs or gp. he said that in his research many are misdiagnosed. he thinks I may have insulin sensitivity. in women its called endimentriosis. its where insulin is overproduced by carbs etc... this causes d, nausea etc... and is mistaken for ibs. he wants to do a test where my gut movement is recorded on an ekg machine. this is a brand new test, however, we are waiting on my dumbass, ruthless, hmo to approve this. he said my gut sounds like rice krispies in milk. I listened and he was right. he said this is adnormal. it should have a rolling sound. He gave me 2 journal articles he and others have writen on this condition. this stuff on insulin is just now being understood. he said millions of people may be misdiagnosed when really they have a hidden insulin problem that can be corrected by reducing certain carbs, by taking omega acids, by taking clompezim medication etc... I wonder if he's right? have any of u heard of this before or not? make sense? lets discuss this issue!talk soon....art

 

[mamamia]

Well, I haven't heard of it before. It sounds scary, though very possible.I crave sugar, carbs, etc. constantly. Is that a symptom, the craving?I really can't deal with much more. Honestly! I've been in a funk for weeks now. love and light to all, m-

 

[*Luna*]

To be honest, it sounds like a load of you-know-what. Unless you have mistaken what the dr said, there are definite errors in what that dr told you and other things about which I am highly skeptical.Endometriosis is NOT insulin sensitivity. If you visit the women's forum on here, you'll find that many of us suffer from it. There are several websites that could give you more credible information on it. In essence, endo is when the uterine lining grows in other parts of the abdominal cavity. This can cause a variety of symptoms. Where the growths are makes a difference in the symptoms. Endo can be mistaken for IBS. Some of us are lucky enough to have both

I'm highly skeptical about the other claims related to insulin sensitivity.There are lots and lots and lots of scientific studies done. Some of them are very flawed. Unless it is a major study or the results have been found many times, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[overitnow]

Hi Art,If nothing else, it might explain why different approaches help different people. My wife's Naturepath swears by fish oil and there essential fatty acids to treat d. I treat mine with grape seed...others have no success at all with that. Antibiotics, anti-depressants, LEAP, etc. may all be treating different causes of similar effects.Good luck in fighting the hmo. That ought to help your digestion no end.Mark

 

[ohnometo]

I second what Luna said that would have nothing to do with insulin sensitivity...

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

Pronin:From everything I have had the opportunity to study on so-called IBS I will agree with the basic proposition. 'IBS" is just an arbitray term used to describe a set of symptoms for which the causal basis has been elusive. There may be multiple causal basis for the symtpom generating mechanisms. This is common in the early stages of understanding elusive pathology. Syndromes often eventually disappear as each actual "disease" which produces the symptoms is finally isolated until sometimes there is no such thing as the syndrome...so called functional-disease is nothing more than undiscovered cause not "no cause".So indeed there are millions who have some as yet poorly understood pathology, not an actual disease of "IBS"...the fun part will be to see, as those causal mechanisms are isolated and named, what finally ends up being the concensus in the end...which dosease will they let keep the name 'Irritable Bowel Disease', for example.Anyway, please Double check with the doc on the "term" he used to label this "etiology", and please post the paper(s) he gave you so I can read them before commenting on anything in a vacuum. (just the title, journal, and author so I can find them)I will be back tomorrow as I am curious to separate the wheat from the chaff here.

MNL

 

[DaniB]

They didnt say endometriosis they said ENDIMENtriosis sounds a bit different...so many doctors say many different things but they are all trying to help be open minded with IBS

 

[*Luna*]

I did notice the spelling was different, but many people do misspell endo. A google search for "ENDIMENtriosis" found no results and suggested that I was likely looking for "endometriosis". So I assume the poster was referring to endo?MNL, I would love to hear your take on this after we have a little more info.

 

[4got]

pronin2, I have been researching info on insulin resistance. Could that be what your dr. was talking about? I believe that I have this problem. It does affect many other organs in the body. Heart, liver, bile excretion etc. And of course when other organs are involved, things start to become unbalanced. That's when all kinds of problems start. WE think that our IBS started all of a sudden, sometimes, but maybe it's taken years for everything to get "OUT OF WACK". Just a thought.

I have lots of them. lol DianneI have to add to this, that I have high blood sugars. Not enough to take anything, but I am not able to eat the sugar free foods either because of the IBS problems with excessive gas. This produces quite a problem with the insulin resistance since fruits and veggies are also not on my menu. Kind of a catch 22.

 

[eric]

When I did a search he is listed for this event in Mexico. http://mexendometriosis.com/1stSimposium/ And also these came up. http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=dr+mat...iosis&hc=0&hs=0 I know that Dr Drossman wrote some information on this and being able to diagnose them seperately and the concern one maybe confused for another either way. A person may also have both.If I can find that article I will post it.This is on IBS though.4th International Symposium on Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/iffgdsymposium.htm History of Functional Disorders http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/hist...aldisorders.htm

 

[flux]

quote:he said that in his research many are misdiagnosed. he thinks I may have insulin sensitivity. in women its called endimentriosis.

I guess by insulin sensitivity he means insulin resistance.In any case, as already mentioned endometrosis is not related to insulin.It also is not related to IBS and they couldn't be mistaken easily either.However, diabetes can affect GI motility especially in the stomach. But that is diabetes, not IBS.

quote:e wants to do a test where my gut movement is recorded on an ekg machine. this is a brand new test,

There is a somewhat old test for measuring electrical activity of the stomach called an electrogastrogram.

quote:it should have a rolling sound.

Huh?Most people who are diagnosed with IBS actually have it (whatever it is). However, a few may be misdiagnosed as we are seeing on the nausea thread.

 

[eric]

Just for the infoCurrent Approach to the Diagnosis of Irritable Bowel Syndrome By: George F. Longstreth, M.D., Chief of Gastroenterology, Kaiser Permanente Medical Care Plan, San Diego, CA http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/diagnosis.html

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

Hi Pronoun.Since there does not seem to be any such word as endimentriosis and I am a bit baffled by his apparent linkage with insulin resistance, could you tell me the titles and authors of the two papers he gave you? That should help us all sort out the Mystery of The Month.

Thanks.MNL

 

[Elariel]

edit: i always post too fast

i should read first..

 

[kamie]

I'm wondering if it was endometriosis and insulen resistence the doctor was talking about in relation to that ol' syndrome x that takes things like diabetes and HBP and endometriosis and a bunch of other stuff and puts it all into a catagory of being a metabolic disorder.Having just gone though surgically induced menopause my self, I can tell you that SSRI's and Tricyclic antidepresants do a good job with regulating certain body systems that are out of balance. The suff did wonders for my fast and furious hot flashes.(can't and don't take HRT)Effexor works even better and faster than what I got but for me we were also targeting the control of pain that was left over fom the surgery. So what do you think? Maybe syndrome X? However, from the little teenie bit I have read I don't know if there's any one test for that thing or not.Kamie

 

[kamie]

Oh, one more thought about endometriosis, insulin resistence and IBS.While Insulin resistence does not cause endometriosis, a lot of women who have endometriosis do have insulin resistence. And, even though they say there's no connection from having insulin resistence to IBS it seems to be that diabetics sure do have their fair share of real and diagnosed IBS problems.My whole female family has diabetes, HBP,they get hysterectomies, ovarian tumors and breast cancer.I have endo and IBS and I also have HBP.I can tell you that Endo most certainly did contribute to my jackpot of a case of IBS.Or, who knows, maybe I could be confused.It's really easy to be confused when your body systems are always going tilt.Well, anyway, it's my opinion, and the opinion of the gastroenterologist and the colon surgeon and the family practitioner that my endo and my IBS are joined in a partnership of bad physical health in my personal situation.My colon was attached and fusing to the Ovary and they were both plastered to the musculature of the pelvic girdle with the colon having a twist/fold/ crink? as it was around the ovary in a snug embrace.The surgery to get that mess cleaned up took 4 1/2 hours and we are still not sure that it's all gone.It was the growth of the endo that triggered the inner organs to produce adhesions that pulled the colon over around the ovary and stuck the two of them to the pelvic muscle.There's much speculation about my colon condition.starting my 3rd week into my hysterectomy healing my colon shut down and I had to have emergency surgery.So, after going through what I've been through I do think that endo really might play a role in certain types of IBS. Certainly, I wouldn't think this problem would apply to men, so as many things in life, the rules are different for women.However, I think that if my endo had never gone nuts that I might not have such a touchy case of the IBS today.After all, it's the place that was attached to the ovary that gets fecal matter stuck in the turn of the old fold and it's the same place that continually hurts.So who knows, in the world of IBS it seems that the rules and reasons are an ever elusive shadow of discomfort.Kamie

 

[4got]

I'm not a dr, but IBS has many many different causes. Insulin resistance can cause all sorts of things not to work properly which in turn causes other things not to work properly. It's the domino effect. When one thing falls it takes other things with it. I have IBS/D and I am insulin resistant. One does not CAUSE the other. But, the insulin resistance can cause other organs not to work correctly which in turn makes the bowels not work properly. I also had endometrosis. I had surgery to remove it and it was also everywhere. After it was removed, I started having all sorts of problems with my bowels. The endometrosis did not cause the IBS, but it was a contributing factor since during my surgery everything was scraped and moved , especially the bowel. When they go in and move everything around it's bound to have some effect on your system. Dianne

 

[kamie]

Diane, Has anyone talked to you about the endometriosis still growing or if the adhesions have reformed?My doctors are telling me that they think that is what is happening with me but they aren't sure and they think more surgery is a really bad idea since I've already had my bowel shut down once.Right now, I'd be happy to be able to miss my monthy appointment with the ER. Which by the way, seems to happen right about the time my only lonely ovary might be doing it's estrogen business.You know, I had the opportunity to choose whether I would have that right ovary removed or not.I wasn't real sure at the time. I mean, how clear is ones thinking when you've been put on a huge amount of drugs to keep your blood pressure down so you will not be a horrible surgical risk since ones history already involves one bad reaction to anesthesia for a previous surgery.Anyway, I hurt so bad at the time, I couldn't make a decision so I told the surgeon to do whatever she thought was best once she got inside.Well, she says the right ovary was looking too healthy and the apendix was looking too healthy(yes, they often remove the apendix for a hysterctomy because many women have the apendix go bad after hysterectomies)So she left the right ovary and the apendix in place.Well, it's now been 5 months since my 1st surgery and my bowels are still an issue and my bowels do their thing just about once a month.Actually, the bowel thing is a daily work in progress. It just gets worse about once a month and I go into tachycardia when it's time to visit the ER.I was there last week with a pulse of 119 and rising. It was my colon alright. Showed up on the X rays.They did a force drip of saline and demerol and phenegrin and when my BM returned and my urine function returned I was allowed to go home.Does your urine function stop when you get an IBS attack? I wish mine would stop stopping.Its bad enough to be worried about the pulse and being in tachycardia and wondering if the shoulder and chest hurt because one is having a heart attack or if it is yet again just that troublesome ol bowel being irritable.That Urine function thing just makes it all the more irritable and frustrating.Anyone else here experience the ceasing of Urine function from IBS-C?The urologist says that even though I have a small capacity bladder that my problem is not in the Urology department. I've had all those fancy tests where they fill you up with liquid and take x rays and then when they fill you upwith more liquid and stand around to see when you begin to writhe in pain and how hard you have to push to get a complete void.Nope, other than the bladder getting spastic along with the colon it's not a Urlogy problem.But after those things my lower back sure does hurt.And they said it was all in my HEAD last year when I first began to search for my answers.It took 6 months and 5 doctors to get even a portion of the right attention.Kamie

 

[*Luna*]

Kamie I am D-type and often when my colon is being irritable my bladder gets that way too...so if I finally get #2 to stop I'm still visiting the bathroom a lot for #1. Other D-types have noticed this correlation as well. So it doesn't surprise me that a C-type might have their bladder slow down along with the colon.There is definitely a hormonal connection for many of us with the IBS.

 

[kamie]

Luna,Thanks for the feed back. Sometimes one wonders if anyone else has the same stuff happen especially when we are told nothing is wrong with us or when we are dissed by people saying one thing has nothing to do with the other.I guess I've just had too many medical people tell me I was a head case. No one was more surprised than my surgeon when they went in to do my hysterectomy.She kept telling me that I was wrong about what I "felt" my problems were.My gastroenterologist and my urologist were my best and strongest advocates though.The gynecologist agreed to a hysterectomy because of my constant whining and moaning and with the consideration of my family history of female cancer.I'm currently having a hormone panel done (new gynecologist)to see if my estrogen is too high and maybe feeding endo.I'll have the results in about 10 days. They are doing an ultrasound tomorrow and I'm seeing a new gastroenterologist tomorrow too.It has been suggested to me that if the hormone levels are bad that maybe we'll do the endo starvation diet of Lupron,(i believe it is), to make the ovary shut down production.Personally, I wish my natural menopause would kick in and put that thing to sleep for good. I don't want another surgery to remove that thing and I've not heard good things about lupron.My jumpin jack flash backs to every traumatic experience in my life was bad enough on the first round of dropping hormone levels.It's like being married to the devil.So what do you think Lupron does to the whole IBS trip?Just wondering while considering my options and doing more personal research.Kamie