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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've learned a lot during the past few weeks on this BBS, and seem to have wrestled my flareup into submission by eliminating fruit from my diet. So, what's the elephant connection?Sometime in the past year, I saw a show on one of the nature channels about elephants. During one segment of the show, they featured a newbown calf(?) romping in its mothers recent "deposit", and even eating some of it. The narrator stated that elephants were born without the proper digestive bacteria, and the only way they could obtain it was to eat some of their mother's stool. I believe it is related to two things: 1. they have a very poor digestive system, with only a small percent of their food being fully digested, and 2. the vegetation they eat is by its nature very hard to digest.I keep thinking about this intestinal bacteria thing. Humans have a much more diverse diet than elephants. It would seem to follow that we would require a bigger variety of bacteria to digest our greater variety of food, i.e. veggies, fruits, meat, whatever, than elephants. However, I only ever hear of lactobacillus as the bacterial replacement therapy. Is lactoB really so versatile, that it can aid in the digestion of carrots, pears, and beef?On the same note, I see the veterinarian shows where they prescribe a specific diet to manage some pets' problems. How is it that vets have a better handle on animal's dietary needs than all of modern medicine has for mankind? Is it because the genetic diversity in each breed of dogs is much narrower than that in mankind? Could it be that the backlash of ###'s Eugenics "research" has blinded us to the fact that our digestive systems have diverged due to some factor, possibly regional origin or something else. Not enough to be speciated, mind you, (and I don't think that what we consider "race" has any impact on this proposed diversity) but just diverse in some way or other that causes some of us to be unable to tolerate, say, fruits or onions.Add to this the fact that many of us eat canned/sterilized vegetables. Perhaps the canning process kills off potentially beneficial bacteria. Perhaps, by having a long history of eating canned foods, along with the occasional antibiotic treatment, we have become bereft of the very bacteria that we need to process many of the foods we like.I seem to remember that it took a long time before the genetic reason for sickle cell anemia to be realized. I also think there are some other diseases that, in the main, strike a particular race. Perhaps we all have something in common that just hasn't been discovered yet, because there is no obvious way to classify us as a group.Or maybe not. In any case, maybe we'd benefit if we had some animal researchers working on our disorder
Perhaps the human genome research will eventually turn something up.
 

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Museam, IBS is not caused by a bacterial problem, it is likely that it is caused by a dysregulation of neurotransmitters between the gut brain and the main brain.Did you see this? Click on the pictures to enlarge them. http://webpotential.com/uploadpic/ also here is the full link explaining it in more depth. http://www.medscape.com/medscape/gastro/Tr...01/tu01-02.html There is more. This is a cme for doctors on IBS. http://www.gastro.org/adhf/gi_ibs.html ------------------Moderator of the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Anxiety and Hypnotherapy forumI work with Mike building his websites. www.ibsaudioprogram and www.healthyaudio.com I also work with Mike in IBS clinical trials using Mikes tapes at an IBS research facility.My own website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com Please visit for accurate information on IBS.
 

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Museam, IBS is not caused by a bacterial problem, it is likely that it is caused by a dysregulation of neurotransmitters between the gut brain and the main brain.Did you see this? Click on the pictures to enlarge them. http://webpotential.com/uploadpic/ also here is the full link explaining it in more depth. http://www.medscape.com/medscape/gastro/Tr...01/tu01-02.html There is more. This is a cme for doctors on IBS. http://www.gastro.org/adhf/gi_ibs.html ------------------Moderator of the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Anxiety and Hypnotherapy forumI work with Mike building his websites. www.ibsaudioprogram and www.healthyaudio.com I also work with Mike in IBS clinical trials using Mikes tapes at an IBS research facility.My own website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com Please visit for accurate information on IBS.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Eric, you are aware that recent research has shown that the brain does, indeed, grow new neurons as it is stimulated. After considering the ramifications of this statement, it seems possible to me that the changes shown in those scans are due to stimulation that occurred after the brain matured. It is of course possible that we're born this way. I don't know which is more likely. Occam doesn't say. However, a brain/gut interaction doesn't seem to adequately describe the problems I have with fruit, onions, and a couple of other foods. I was at the "knawing out the intestines" point recently, because the pain and nausea had gotten so bad. When the surgeon told me that my gallbladder didn't show any signs of abnormality and he couldn't see it as the root of my problems, I had to reexamine what had happened that was different in my life over the past 8 months compared to the time before that. The only thing I could come up with was that I had started eating canned peaches and fruit coctail. There was literally nothing else different in my environment. I got relief within 24 hours after removing the fruit (which had become pretty much a daily food item). You could say, I suppose, that this was a placebo effect, but I don't buy it. During the past few days, I have gone through a brief D phase, which I rarely have. I am now in a very gassy phase, which is also abnormal for me. However, I am definitely improving, and am not only getting energy back, I am losing the brain fog. I have been able to reduce my PKs, as well. The real test will be this weekend. Will I have the energy to go biking for the first time in months, or will I have a relapse? I'll know in just a few days. Of course, it could be just coincidence; and I'm sure we've all had an experience with that. Just remember; all avenues of research that are shunned are just time wasted if they turn out to be the root of the problem.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Eric, you are aware that recent research has shown that the brain does, indeed, grow new neurons as it is stimulated. After considering the ramifications of this statement, it seems possible to me that the changes shown in those scans are due to stimulation that occurred after the brain matured. It is of course possible that we're born this way. I don't know which is more likely. Occam doesn't say. However, a brain/gut interaction doesn't seem to adequately describe the problems I have with fruit, onions, and a couple of other foods. I was at the "knawing out the intestines" point recently, because the pain and nausea had gotten so bad. When the surgeon told me that my gallbladder didn't show any signs of abnormality and he couldn't see it as the root of my problems, I had to reexamine what had happened that was different in my life over the past 8 months compared to the time before that. The only thing I could come up with was that I had started eating canned peaches and fruit coctail. There was literally nothing else different in my environment. I got relief within 24 hours after removing the fruit (which had become pretty much a daily food item). You could say, I suppose, that this was a placebo effect, but I don't buy it. During the past few days, I have gone through a brief D phase, which I rarely have. I am now in a very gassy phase, which is also abnormal for me. However, I am definitely improving, and am not only getting energy back, I am losing the brain fog. I have been able to reduce my PKs, as well. The real test will be this weekend. Will I have the energy to go biking for the first time in months, or will I have a relapse? I'll know in just a few days. Of course, it could be just coincidence; and I'm sure we've all had an experience with that. Just remember; all avenues of research that are shunned are just time wasted if they turn out to be the root of the problem.
 

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Angry, they know the brain and the gut are operative in IBS. Those are pictures of scans but other have replicated them in IBS and they have been studying this for the last for years.I am aware of the research you mention and funny you should bring that up as the constant attacks of IBS on the brain may be changing these neural pathway for the worse and things like hypno and cbt start to change them and create new ones for the better.
However, you could also have fructose malabsorbtion, which is a posiblity for sure and would aggravate IBS.Onions aggravate IBS as well.IBS can also be cyclic even though you may not notice changes in what your eating or your environment, but everything would have to be taken into account as heat, weather, food, emotions, sleep, ect.. would have to be looked at as all of those can aggravate IBS.also, a lot of people experience that brain fog and that could be related to serotonin perhaps.In any event I hope you feel better.If you do a search on fructose malabsorbtion you will find a lot of good information on it. Hope that helps.------------------Moderator of the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Anxiety and Hypnotherapy forum.I work with Mike building his websites. www.ibsaudioprogram and www.healthyaudio.com I also work with Mike in IBS clinical trials using Mikes tapes at an IBS research facility.My own website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com Please visit for accurate information on IBS.
 

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Angry, they know the brain and the gut are operative in IBS. Those are pictures of scans but other have replicated them in IBS and they have been studying this for the last for years.I am aware of the research you mention and funny you should bring that up as the constant attacks of IBS on the brain may be changing these neural pathway for the worse and things like hypno and cbt start to change them and create new ones for the better.
However, you could also have fructose malabsorbtion, which is a posiblity for sure and would aggravate IBS.Onions aggravate IBS as well.IBS can also be cyclic even though you may not notice changes in what your eating or your environment, but everything would have to be taken into account as heat, weather, food, emotions, sleep, ect.. would have to be looked at as all of those can aggravate IBS.also, a lot of people experience that brain fog and that could be related to serotonin perhaps.In any event I hope you feel better.If you do a search on fructose malabsorbtion you will find a lot of good information on it. Hope that helps.------------------Moderator of the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Anxiety and Hypnotherapy forum.I work with Mike building his websites. www.ibsaudioprogram and www.healthyaudio.com I also work with Mike in IBS clinical trials using Mikes tapes at an IBS research facility.My own website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com Please visit for accurate information on IBS.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks. I'll definitely look into fructose malabsorption. I had never heard of that. One of my IBS flyers recommends fruit as a source of fiber. Guess they screwed up on that one.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks. I'll definitely look into fructose malabsorption. I had never heard of that. One of my IBS flyers recommends fruit as a source of fiber. Guess they screwed up on that one.
 

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Musem,A thought provoking post on elephant digestion. (Elephants are extremely cool animals, IMHO. I once witnessed an elephant being fed at the local zoo, and this thing was literally scarfing down an S-10 pickup truck bed full of food, starting with a giant pile of various fruits and vegetables, and finishing with bales of hay.)My experience has been that I have three very specific food allergies/intolerances, which produce pain symptoms in three different, specific locations in the GI tract. The ones lowest in the tract also produce alternating bouts of C and D. The food items are caffeine, oranges, and egg albumin. I have a milder allergy to sulfited wine and a few other things.Here's the interesting bit: I come from ancestors who lived in the middle of Europe. I don't know how many generations lived there, but it was probably a lot.Most of the food items that cause my IBS problems are not native to a European diet. As I mentioned in an earlier post, coffee was imported into Europe from Arabia. (Other caffeinated items like tea and cola were also imported.) Oranges are not native to Europe. Concentrated sulfites are not native to anywhere.On the other hand, I can eat large quantities of things native to my ancestral homeland like sauerkraut, red cabbage, pork sausage, onions, etc, without any problem whatsoever. It makes sense that modern humans, with diets containing hundreds of new ingredients that are not native to their ancestral regions, would have digestive malfunction with one or two ingredients. Not to mention the completely synthetic ingredients that are recently proliferating in our diet.I also suspect you may have fructose intolerance, or an allergy to a specific ingredient in your canned fruit. Most canned fruit is packed with high fructose corn syrup, and so would be very bad for someone with a fructose intolerance. If this is true, you may need to look over other things in your diet very carefully, since high fructose corn syrup is added to all manner of processed foods.Best of luck with your IBS symptom alleviation.
 

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Musem,A thought provoking post on elephant digestion. (Elephants are extremely cool animals, IMHO. I once witnessed an elephant being fed at the local zoo, and this thing was literally scarfing down an S-10 pickup truck bed full of food, starting with a giant pile of various fruits and vegetables, and finishing with bales of hay.)My experience has been that I have three very specific food allergies/intolerances, which produce pain symptoms in three different, specific locations in the GI tract. The ones lowest in the tract also produce alternating bouts of C and D. The food items are caffeine, oranges, and egg albumin. I have a milder allergy to sulfited wine and a few other things.Here's the interesting bit: I come from ancestors who lived in the middle of Europe. I don't know how many generations lived there, but it was probably a lot.Most of the food items that cause my IBS problems are not native to a European diet. As I mentioned in an earlier post, coffee was imported into Europe from Arabia. (Other caffeinated items like tea and cola were also imported.) Oranges are not native to Europe. Concentrated sulfites are not native to anywhere.On the other hand, I can eat large quantities of things native to my ancestral homeland like sauerkraut, red cabbage, pork sausage, onions, etc, without any problem whatsoever. It makes sense that modern humans, with diets containing hundreds of new ingredients that are not native to their ancestral regions, would have digestive malfunction with one or two ingredients. Not to mention the completely synthetic ingredients that are recently proliferating in our diet.I also suspect you may have fructose intolerance, or an allergy to a specific ingredient in your canned fruit. Most canned fruit is packed with high fructose corn syrup, and so would be very bad for someone with a fructose intolerance. If this is true, you may need to look over other things in your diet very carefully, since high fructose corn syrup is added to all manner of processed foods.Best of luck with your IBS symptom alleviation.
 

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Although I have abandoned the approach of trying to correct my gut ecology, and although I understand what eric is getting at, I haven't abandoned the idea that gut bacterial imbalances are to blame.Musem--I've wondered the same thing about the doggie diets. My theory is that they've simply been able to do many more invasive studies of doggie guts that humans wouldn't even accept cash to go through. I have been unable to confirm that theory, however.Just wanted to add that I abandoned my attempts to treat my gut ecology because I realize it is like shooting rubberbands in the dark at a moving target...we just don't know where to begin because science isn't there yet.[This message has been edited by SteveE (edited 08-30-2001).]
 

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Although I have abandoned the approach of trying to correct my gut ecology, and although I understand what eric is getting at, I haven't abandoned the idea that gut bacterial imbalances are to blame.Musem--I've wondered the same thing about the doggie diets. My theory is that they've simply been able to do many more invasive studies of doggie guts that humans wouldn't even accept cash to go through. I have been unable to confirm that theory, however.Just wanted to add that I abandoned my attempts to treat my gut ecology because I realize it is like shooting rubberbands in the dark at a moving target...we just don't know where to begin because science isn't there yet.[This message has been edited by SteveE (edited 08-30-2001).]
 

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The think is most of what we eat are things that are readily digested by the digestive enzymes we have.Usually when mammals need help breaking things down is for things like cellulose (Mostly tough plant parts) for which we have no enzymes to break them down. So cows and elephants and critters that eat large amounts of cellulose have used bacteria to help break that down.Often they have a specific part of the Digestive tract where this breaking down occurs that is prior to the nutrient absorbing part of the GI tract.Most of our bacteria live in the colon. The colon doesn't really absorb much in the way of nutrients , mostly is there for storage and water removal.If you managed to cultivate alot of bacteria in your stomach or small intestine to help break down the food that would tend to make you quite ill.K.------------------I am a scientific researcher primarily in the area of the environment and the impact of environmental factors on human health, I have no ties to the pharmaceutical industry. I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial, natural, or any other product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html
 

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The think is most of what we eat are things that are readily digested by the digestive enzymes we have.Usually when mammals need help breaking things down is for things like cellulose (Mostly tough plant parts) for which we have no enzymes to break them down. So cows and elephants and critters that eat large amounts of cellulose have used bacteria to help break that down.Often they have a specific part of the Digestive tract where this breaking down occurs that is prior to the nutrient absorbing part of the GI tract.Most of our bacteria live in the colon. The colon doesn't really absorb much in the way of nutrients , mostly is there for storage and water removal.If you managed to cultivate alot of bacteria in your stomach or small intestine to help break down the food that would tend to make you quite ill.K.------------------I am a scientific researcher primarily in the area of the environment and the impact of environmental factors on human health, I have no ties to the pharmaceutical industry. I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial, natural, or any other product mentioned by me.My story and what worked for me in greatly easing my IBS: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000015.html
 

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musemMy German Shepherd dog has allergies.The vet prescribed a capsule remedy containing essential fatty acids-fish oil,borage oil, etc.An MD would not suggest this. Alternative/complementary practioners do recommend this all the time.I see what you are saying about the elephants!
 

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musemMy German Shepherd dog has allergies.The vet prescribed a capsule remedy containing essential fatty acids-fish oil,borage oil, etc.An MD would not suggest this. Alternative/complementary practioners do recommend this all the time.I see what you are saying about the elephants!
 

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oops. i got into this topic because i thought the pink elephants i've been seeing were being discussed here. there goes one right now!jj (sorry, i'm feeling very obnoxious today. well, more than usual anyway)
 
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