[Pitzi]

I have discovered that the pain that I have been experiencing lately is caused by fermantation, my tummy growls like an angry bear, and after a while I start to have lower abdominal pains and pain below my ribs,it only subsides when I start to pass wind. I take it that it is caused by too much air. How do you people cope with fermantation, any tips??keep in mind that I am suddenly experiencing IBS-C, I could understand when I was having IBS-D that the fermantation was caused by the diarrhoea, but now??Any tips appreciated

 

[flux]

quote:I have discovered that the pain that I have been experiencing lately is caused by fermantation, my tummy growls like an angry bear, and after a while I start to have lower abdominal pains and pain below my ribs,it only subsides when I start to pass wind. I take it that it is caused by too much air.

I'm confused a bit. Frementation has nothing to do with atomspheric air. How do which one is the source of the gas? Also, why do you the volume is too much?

 

[Pitzi]

Let me explain better, exactly 2/3 hours after a meal, I start to have fermantation (rumbling sounds like a kettle of boiling water) from my abdomen, this is when the pain starts, the pain lasts until the gas comes out a few hours later (sorry for the detailed info

)These symptoms are like when one is having diarrhoea, but the problem is that I dont have diarrhoea but rather IBC-C, I am very constipated. I would like to know why the food ferments and what can be done to stop this as the pain is starting to affect me.thanks

 

[Guest]

I understant EXACTLY what you mean about "fermentation". You are the only other person I've seen use the term.You may well be experiencing some bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine. There is a breath test availabe for it. Have you noticed you get reliief from it when you are put on a regime of antibiotics for some other cause?Probiotics can often help with this as well. They are the "good" bacteria needed for digestion. If you have been on antibiotics lately and the "fermentation" problem seems worse after the anitibiotics rather than being helped by them it is probably that the antibiotics destroy the "good" bacteria as well as the "bad" bacteria and taking a good probiotic will restore the "good" bacteria.Probiotics are available in some drug stores in the US and in all health food stores in the refrigerator section. You want a mixed probiotic rather than "just" acidophilus or "just" lactobacillus.Also keep a food diary and see if you can determine if any particular foods exacerbate your problem. Have you been checked for gluten intolerance? That is another common problem.You might try drinking lots of fruit drinks or something like gatorade to loosen things up and get things moving plus eating additional fiber.

 

[loulou]

Here's a link about this subject. http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/b43b2.htm Hope it is of some help to you.

 

[meckle]

Pitzi, Perplexed.Can I recommend that you read the following book for a good explanation of the conditions of fermentation and dysbiosis (bacterial overgrowth).Hard To Stomach by Dr John McKenna.You can get it on Amazon.com for about $13.Good luck.

 

[flux]

It is normal for some food to bypass digestion and be fermented by bacteria into gas. It is abnormal only if the volume is too much. What you described so far does not sound abnormal, however.Even if it were abnormal, it wouldn't account for the pain. Gas in the intestine per se is not normally painful.

 

[Pitzi]

perplexed, thanks for your advice, can you give me some more info on Probiotics?? I would like to try and locate them here in SA but I am not sure who makes the etc???I am also worried if the Probiotics contain Lactose, as I am very sensitive to it. You are right regarding the antibiotics!! if I am on an antibiotics course I tend to feel better!!I have also contacted a local agent that sells anzymes and other products, he adviced that I go on this course, but I am a bit sceptic, have a peek and see if any of these products ring a bell??"Here are the names of the products:Aloedophilus.ColoNorm G - a colon health maintence product.Pan 523 - a superior pancreatic enzymer formulation.Adrenergy/Adrenucleo is a product that will reduce stress on your system (one of your problems)by adressing the adrenal glands and also detoxifying the liver and the kidneys. The ingrediants in this product will also help to reduce the insulin intake. Over and above these I recommend an excellent Multivitamin/mineral complex called Multilife. Most of these products you will at the start of a meal. This will mean that they will work in conjuction with your digestive system to reduce all your symptoms"apparently these products are imported from the US, thats why i am asking if anyone has used them or had any success?? I am worried that it might be a waste of time and money as I really dongt know if they might workSorry about all the questions, but I am relatively new at this and the pharmacies here in SA are not well stocked at all

I cannot even find lactose free Acidophilus like the one that I bought last year in Italy, it helped me a bit but here you can only find Acidophilus grown on milk cultures

 

[Kathleen M.]

Even if the probiotics are grown in milk there should be virtually no lactose left in the milk culture by the time the bacteria are grown.They like to digest lactose. That is why aged cheeses and yogurt (many of the probiotic bacteria are from yogurt making like Lactobacillus acidophilus...acid loving lactose eating bacteria is what that means in english) have virtually no lactose in them.So I wouldn't be that concerned about finding "lactose free" probiotics.But that is me

K.

 

[Guest]

Pixie:Rowena who I told you about from the about.com IBS forum and who is in Johannesburg refers to the probiotics as "interflora" or "intraflora" if that is any help to you.Personally, I am leery of any of these "health store", "natural" products. But the probiotics/interfloras are the subject of quite a bit of successful research for Crohn's & Ulcerative colitis and my pharmacist, one of the few compounding pharmacists in this country, recommended the probiotics as did Dr May at the Crohn's & Colitis Foundation of America Ask the Specialist forum so I felt fairly safe taking them. And they help! Generally, it is recommended that you take a probiotic/intraflora product at least while you are on antibiotics.Also I had experience using acidophilus (a single probiotic) in newborn puppies that were on antibiotics and had wonderful results with it so that also made me feel more comfortable trying them.My theory is that ANYTHING I put in my mouth and swallow is a "chemical" and thus subject to putting my gut into a tizzy. Thus I am careful and leery about meds as well as "natural" products. There are a LOT of deadly "natural" things out there as well as beneficial ones. At least the med products are subject to quality standards which the "naturals" are not.I don't recognize any of the products you mention. My guess is that the Aloedophilus contains acidophilus and aloe. I don't know about the use of aloe in the gut.Personally, I wouldn't touch the Adrenergy/Adrenucleo with a 10 foot pole as I have no interest in possibly screwing up my adrenal glands as well! But then like I say I am as leery and distrustful of the "naturals" as I am meds. Moreso in fact. Decidedly moreso.I've e-mailed Rowena, asked her to check out some of your posts to get an idea of all you are up against and gave her your e-mail addy so she can contact you. She can help you out more with the names of products in SA given the different naming from the USA and where to find them, also good doctors.Meckle:Thanks for the book referral. I'll check it out.Flux,If it is causing discomfort and nausea it is too much! Gas that distends the intestine too much IS painful. They've done research with scans during colonoscopy and recorded pain episdes coordinated with distention of the colon w/gas and with the scope looping so that is a proven. You are talking normal amounts of gas in the intestine. WE are NOT!Hell's bells there were and are times when I can watch a gas bubble move thru, just like when you are pregnant and the baby moves his fist or foot. And it HURTS when it is excessive gas in your intestine rather than a baby in your uterus!! And, yup, your gut can sound like the Maxwell House coffee pot and be heard across the room. Mind you, we are talking excessive gas in the gut. They have a neat word for the sounds: borborygmi or some such spelling.LouLou:Thanks for the URL. I will check it out.Good luck and God bless to all!

 

[flux]

quote:If it is causing discomfort and nausea it is too much! Gas that distends the intestine too much IS painful. They've done research with scans during colonoscopy and recorded pain episdes coordinated with distention of the colon w/gas and with the scope looping so that is a proven. You are talking normal amounts of gas in the intestine. WE are NOT!

No, the amount is normal. Even if an abnormal volume of gas is given to a healthy person, that person would not feel it. IBS caues the pain, not the gas.

quote: Mind you, we are talking excessive gas in the gut. They have a neat word for the sounds: borborygmi or some such spelling.

How do you know it is excessive? The gut normally makes some noise.

 

[Pitzi]

perplexed, thanks for all the suggestions. Yes there is a product called "Inteflora" but it is just saccharomyces boulardii bacteria (lyophilised), as far as I know that is the only thing available here together with acidophilus (which should be kept refridgerated)

 

[jimmye]

Ok Flux then are you saying that even though the amount of gas is normal, the fact that someone is experiencing pain from this gas is caused by their IBS? Isn't that partially what IBS is, an overly developed ability to experience sensation from the gut? So for an IBSer who is so overly sensitive whatever amount of gas is produced could cause pain. Jimmye

 

[Kathleen M.]

One other thing to remember is that for IBS any number of normal proceses may cause pain. So gas is not the only cause of pain from spasms or other causes.The pain comes from the IBS whatever is causing it. For some people reducing the gas burden may reduce some of the pain even when the overall levels are normal. It is not possible to get rid of all gas, gas is a part of the normal functioning of the GI tract. Most people have a fairly skewed version of how much gas is normal and think they are very excessive even when they are near the low end of the normal range in terms of fart frequency.If your pain/bloating goes away after a "fart fest" and only really is associated with times when you need to have a "fart fest" then it may be reasonable to assume that the pain and the gas are related.If you have pain after every meal or every morning, or one of the other patterns like that of IBS pain the gas may not be the main cause of the pain, it may be over-feeling of normal increases in colonic activity. For me I was quite gassy both with IBS and after it went into remission. The pain was not really associated with gas, but I did have a reduced ability to "hold it" that normal people seem to be able to do. IBSers often can't hold it until they can release it privately like most normal people can (get sensations of urgency or pain from holding it).But that isn't because of the gas, that is because of rectal hypersensitivity.K.

 

[Guest]

quote: Mind you, we are talking excessive gas in the gut. They have a neat word for the sounds: borborygmi or some such spelling. How do you know it is excessive? The gut normally makes some noise. You're right. I skipped ahead of myself when I remembered the borborygmi word and threw it in in the wrong place. The gut DOES normally make some noise, sometimes more than we would like!! I didn't mean to imply that excessive gas caused all those neat gurgly sounds.The following URL carries some interesting info that touches on this entire discussion. Just found it yesterday. Still looking for where I put the URL for the article where they used the scan procedure to record pain episodes during colonoscopy. http://www.med.unc.edu/wrkunits/2depts/med...smintestine.htm

 

[Pitzi]

Update:I have been put on antibiotics today because I have developed tonsillitis, all symptoms are gone after the 2nd dose of A/B

No more fermentation, pain or constipation.

 

[flux]

quote:Flux then are you saying that even though the amount of gas is normal, the fact that someone is experiencing pain from this gas is caused by their IBS? Isn't that partially what IBS is, an overly developed ability to experience sensation from the gut?

Correct.