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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went to my GI today and I really got close to him & I asked him point blank if he smelled me & he told me he did smell something... I explained to him that I am clean & that I bathe daily but I always have this smell about me. He said that it is NOT gas incontinence b/c it is almost impossible to be leaking gas & not stool or mucus along with it he says he is 110 percent sure it is a bacterial overgrowth / infection because the bacteria can give off a very foul odor especially if it has been in the colon/rectum for a long time. I told him about this forum & how some of us have diarrhea while others have constipation. He says the bacteria will thrive in feces sitting in the rectum, but can also thrive in scar tissue/fissures from excessive diarrhea..... I dont know if this makes sense to all of you - but I am a firm believer that bacteria is the culprit to LG! I have C so he put me on a no sugar liquid only diet to try to eliminate some of the bacteria & also gave me Nulytely (the prep before a colonscopy) I am supposed to do this for 2 weeks. He said if this doesn't help my bowels & clean everything out then a partial colectomy may be the only answer. He said he had to do a colectomy on a 50 year old man who had Crohn's disease because he was over-run with bacteria & he smelled really bad and he was about to lose his job because people at work were complaining about him so much (sound familiar???) I think the amount of bacteria differs from person to person but you only need a small amount of "bad" bacteria in your guts to put off an offensive odor - LG. I am going to persue this liquid diet & I will let everyone know how I am doing. I really hope this helps. I didn't explain this as well as my GI did but he really made sense to me. I feel much better now that since I KNOW what is causing the LG I can start working on a way to cure it for good
 

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You are lucky that you have a proactive doc. Keep us updated. But I am getting the sense that when he talks about bacterial overgrowth he means the gas causing bacteria in the colon and not in the SI? Correct? However the remedies he uses, rifiaximin, liquid diet sound like they are more for SIBO. So I am a little confused about what he means by BO.
 

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You are going to be on a liquid-only diet for 2 weeks? Wow.Did your GI tell you what type of smell he detected? IE, was it a farty smell, a faecal smell emanating from the skin or butt or a general body odour smell? Kudos to your GI.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I think when he says bacterial overgrowth he means in general whether it is bacteria in the small intestine or in the colon
I am sure if you have bacteria in the s.i. it will eventually travel thru to the colon & into the rectum. If it is left untreated it will spread & keep thriving. Also, antibiotics will help only temporarily because bacteria can come back as quick as you get rid of it. I think he is just trying to exhaust every possible way to get rid of the bacteria with the rifaximin & liquid diet, etc as he wants to use the partial colectomy surgery as the last resort. It is very logical to me that if you have feces just sitting or have IE the poo will ferment & there will be bacteria. He didn't go into great detail as to why people with diarrhea are prone to have bacteria since I am C. I will ask him to explain better next time... sorry if I am not making sense.
 

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Oh no you make perfect sense. You are correct that the bacteria in the SI will eventually move into the colon. In fact the bacteria which grow in the SI are a mixture of colonic bacteria and becteria not killed by the stomach acid. Just was curious if he would do the breath tests and normalize the tests if abnormal before using his last resort.
 

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quote:it is NOT gas incontinence b/c it is almost impossible to be leaking gas & not stool or mucus along
I certainly agree here.
quote:with it he says he is 110 percent sure it is a bacterial overgrowth / infection because the bacteria can give off a very foul odor especially if it has been in the colon/rectum for a long time.
Presumably, he thinks the gas is coming from the mouth (and the skin), but regardless, it makes no sense that bacterial overgrowth could be the cause of the gas because1) The bacteria causing SIBO make very little odoriferous gases. 2) Even if it were somehow possible to have SIBO with odoriferous gas generating bacteria, there are very few bacteria growing in the small intestine in SIBO compared to how much normally live in the colon.3) If you had an infection somewhere, odor would be a minor symptom. SIBO is not an infection. So SIBO could not be the cause.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
YAY!!! Flux agrees - I appreciate your help flux
Now we know were onto something here! He dont think it is gas at all... he says it is the bacteria in the colon or rectum emitting the funky odor everyone is complaining about. Also, he said that after time you will get used to the smell of your own bacteria b/c the smell can come out of your pores & mouth and it is a constant smell so you will get used to it sooner or later just like when you spray cologne or perfume YOU get used to it while others still smell it. I asked him about the "tests" to prove it is in fact bacteria overgrowth & he said there was enough proof because he could smell my odor and all of my symptoms point to a definate bacterial overgrowth.
 

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A colestomy to treat SIBO,it sound a bit drastic.Take a look at my signature link.
 

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quote:Originally posted by mandabell25:Also, he said that after time you will get used to the smell of your own bacteria b/c the smell can come out of your pores & mouth and it is a constant smell so you will get used to it sooner or later just like when you spray cologne or perfume YOU get used to it while others still smell it. .
Um, I've been trying to say that whatever the source the general "I can't smell it but other's can" has to be more of a coming out in the breath or something like that in order to cause the geting used to it like you do perfume thing. Everyone seemed to think I was insane. It is nice to see at least I wasn't totally off my rocker. K <sitting waiting patiently to be told again just how I am a bad person for even suggesting the breath and it has to be coming out of the anus and only the anus, again...not that I'm bitter
>
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If I had a colectomy (partial) it wouldn't be to treat "SIBO" it would be for my IBS-idiopathic constipation so I would be able to #### like a normal person instead of my usual once a month! However less bacteria would be an added benefit from a colectomy.
 

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If you go once a month,you may plan to remove it or visit my link in my signature.It is more likely that a liquid diet will makes C worst since you will not have the gastro-reflexe to moves the #### down there.
Have you started the diet?
 

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The gastro reflexe happen when you eat,it send a signals to the lazy guys down there and tell them to moves their ass.
 

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I have tried the liquid diet for a couple of days. I found that it didn't help me. I found that once I started adding more food ie; apple sauce, jello, and soup, my stomach was worse. I don't mean to be so negative, I am just explaining my experience. I REALLY hope that it works foryou. Best of luck! Keep us posted.
 

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The GI is certainly giving food for thought and a new way of considering how to fight this problem. But please tell me how, if the gas is coming from the mouth, the odour can be noticed right throughout the room. We're not dragons. And if it's coming through the skin, the smell would surely be constant, as opposed to the farts which come and go. Hey, that's not very technical, but people don't tell me that I stink and need a bath, they tell me I have a digestive problem. I sense the discomfort in the bowel, but do not smell what others do, unless I deliberately let rip when by myself.Dear, Kath, I might have argued about this before, but I've never implied you were insane! And I think that the GI has mentioned things which are very interesting, but I just don't think there are any studies about this and so there's nothing to go on. And I'll save you saying it, flux, but 'that's because there is no such condition'. But unless someone can tell me what's wrong with me and take me out of my misery, I'll stick with the leaky gas theory for now.
 

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quote:He dont think it is gas at all...
All odors are gaseous by definition.
quote:I asked him about the "tests" to prove it is in fact bacteria overgrowth & he said there was enough proof because he could smell my odor and all of my symptoms point to a definate bacterial overgrowth.
Actually, there isn't any evidence here at all. Scientific evidence requires objective measurements.
quote:The GI is certainly giving food for thought
It's rancid though.
SIBO is just a not a good explanation even if there were evidence of bad odor.
quote:We're not dragons.
In a sense, we are all dragons. Humans breathe and exhalation is part of breathing. Everyone is exhaling gases when they exhale. There are
quote:they tell me I have a digestive problem
The production of odoriferous gases in the gut isn't on its own abnormal.
 

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The analogy with dragons is that you imagine them to be spewing out flames to a great distance. If there is a gaseous odour coming from the breath it will travel a fairly short distance surely and would be unlikely to fill a whole room. Also people would relate the smell to be coming from the mouth and not from the butt.I have to beg to differ. I am not swayed enough to change my viewpoint, because the comments I get leave me convinced that people perceive it to be a problem of flatulence.
 

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quote:He said that it is NOT gas incontinence b/c it is almost impossible to be leaking gas
How does he know this? Did he do the bathtub test?
quote:& not stool or mucus along with it he says he is 110 percent sure it is a bacterial overgrowth / infection because the bacteria can give off a very foul odor especially if it has been in the colon/rectum for a long time.
If this is really what he said, he is a quack. It is surely true that bacteria working on feces will create some pretty noxious compounds. However, I don't understand how you smelling a little implies 110% proof of bacterial overgrowth. I'm sorry. It seems like he should at least do some sort of stool culture or some other test. Heck, he could just load you up with a crapload of antibiotics (I see you are on one), and try to eradicate as much of the bacteria as possible. If this helps, it would at least support this contention.I suspect that we have several subgroups of "leaky gassers here." I know that I, in particular, have minor incontinence as evidenced by mucus secretions especially when I have loose stools. So regardless of whether one can have flatus incontinence without fecal or not (I still think it might be possible), I stand by minor incontinence as one of several contributing factors to my smell (others being stool consistency, gasiness, incomplete evacuation possibly caused by a nonrelaxing puborectalis muscle). Really, any time I feel abdominal pressure and an uncomfortableness in the rectum, I get me a little smell. I am also aware of my smell and have a feeling for the severity.My guess is that there may be more than one other group. Maybe these could be the groups that can smell themselves and the group that can't. I have to think one group has to be emitting from the anus, especially for those with discomfort or incomplete evacuation in the rectal region. The other of those groups may indeed be those emitting gases mostly from their mouths. If they do this all the time, they may not smell it as KathM says, and I would think they might be able to fill a room. However, I don't understand the mechanism of action here. Where is the site where the smelly molecules are absorbed from the digestive tract? Is it the small intestine? The large intestine? Why doesn't everyone have fecal odor or farty breath? We all have smelly feces and farts. I know this sounds gross, but I recommend smelling your undies after a smelly day. If they don't smell, you are probably emitting your odor from your mouth. If the parts that touch the skin smell the most, maybe its going out the skin. If, like me, the part just under the anus smells, I think the smell has to be coming from the anus. Just make sure you clean yourself after going poo-poo so that you don't deposit any #### on the undies. Just sayin'.
 

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Hey Arnie,Convection and diffusion will take over and the smell could eventually fill the room. It's not like a fart gives the gas such velocity that it instantly spreads and fills the room. It takes a little time for it to diffuse as well.I think the argument that some are making is that it could smell like the flatus the exits the anus if the molecules are absorbed in the intestines (I dunno where exactly). Eventually the molecules would exit via the lungs and mouth. I would agree that if one feels gas in the rectum, or discomfort down there or incomplete evacuation, that the smell is probably going out the anus. Otherwise, I would grant that I am not sure whether it is more likely to go out the anus or the mouth. I really don't buy the skin. Otherwise, I think you could tell just by sticking your nose right up to your arm. Even if you were desensitized somewhat, you could probably smell it then. I forget. Can you smell yourself or no?
 

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quote:Convection and diffusion will take over and the smell could eventually fill the room. It's not like a fart gives the gas such velocity that it instantly spreads and fills the room. It takes a little time for it to diffuse as well.
I agree.
quote:How does he know this? Did he do the bathtub test?
The same way most every GI knows. There is a basic understanding of how the sphincter and incontinence works. The bathtub test is the only way I can think of that demonstrate objectively if this understanding is somehow, unexpectedly flawed.
quote:It is surely true that bacteria working on feces will create some pretty noxious compounds. However, I don't understand how you smelling a little implies 110% proof of bacterial overgrowth. I
I agree. His understanding of how odors are generated and excreted is flawed, but that's could be too specialized knowledge even for a GI to know.
quote:Eventually the molecules would exit via the lungs and mouth.
I agree.
quote:I recommend smelling your undies after a smelly day. If they don't smell, you are probably emitting your odor from your mouth. If the parts that touch the skin smell the most, maybe its going out the skin. If, like me, the part just under the anus smells, I think the smell has to be coming from the anus.
Also agreed.
quote:I really don't buy the skin.
It depends on the solubility of the gas in question and how efficiently it's removed from the body by the blood and lungs.
 
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