Irritable Bowel Syndrome and Digestive Health Support Forum banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,797 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One more study which says flatulence is due to higher fermentation in the colon. it is surprising that basal fecal fermentation is higher in normal subjects while the difference between basal fecal fermentation and fecal fermnentation with lactulose was higher in the patients with flatulence. Also the fecal fermentation with lactulose was higher in patients than normals. This was a pretty large study with 126 patients and 30 normals. i wnder what lower basal fecal fermentation means. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15241490 The first study was directly related with IBS patients Abnormal colonic fermentation in irritable bowel syndrome."Colonic-gas production, particularly of hydrogen, is greater in patients with IBS than in controls, and both symptoms and gas production are reduced by an exclusion diet. This reduction may be associated with alterations in the activity of hydrogen-consuming bacteria. Fermentation may be an important factor in the pathogenesis of IBS." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...st_uids=9777836
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,337 Posts
quote: it is surprising that basal fecal fermentation is higher in normal subjects while the difference between basal fecal fermentation and fecal fermnentation with lactulose was higher in the patients with flatulence
Do you have it, because I don't follow the numbers. Also, how did they decide if a person has flatulence?
quote:The first study was directly related with IBS patients
I don't trust anything by Hunter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,337 Posts
quote: it is surprising that basal fecal fermentation is higher in normal subjects while the difference between basal fecal fermentation and fecal fermnentation with lactulose was higher in the patients with flatulence
Do you have it, because I don't follow the numbers. Also, how did they decide if a person has flatulence?
quote:The first study was directly related with IBS patients
I don't trust anything by Hunter.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,797 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I don't understand the numbers either except thisThe mean of FFB +s.d. of normal subjects 1.82+1.55 The mean of FFB +s.d. of flatulent subjects 1.24+1.40 ml of gas/24 h; Mean of FFL +s.d of patients with flatulence 8.84+5.55 vs. Mean of FFL +s.d of normal patients 5.72+3.72 ml of gas/24 h, P: 0.004; and Mean of the difference between FFL and FFB +s.d of patients with flatulencwe 7.60+5.05 vs .Mean of the difference between FFL and FFB +s.d of normal subjecta 3.91+3.22 ml of gas/24 hI am not sure how the p's are related except they may be comparing the difference of two means. I don't know how they determined if a person has flatulence
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,797 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't understand the numbers either except thisThe mean of FFB +s.d. of normal subjects 1.82+1.55 The mean of FFB +s.d. of flatulent subjects 1.24+1.40 ml of gas/24 h; Mean of FFL +s.d of patients with flatulence 8.84+5.55 vs. Mean of FFL +s.d of normal patients 5.72+3.72 ml of gas/24 h, P: 0.004; and Mean of the difference between FFL and FFB +s.d of patients with flatulencwe 7.60+5.05 vs .Mean of the difference between FFL and FFB +s.d of normal subjecta 3.91+3.22 ml of gas/24 hI am not sure how the p's are related except they may be comparing the difference of two means. I don't know how they determined if a person has flatulence
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,337 Posts
The numbers do work:1.82 + 3.91 = 5.721.24 + 7.60 = 8.84
quote:I don't know how they determined if a person has flatulence
They just asked patients who complained of it. So it would be ironic if it actually turned out they less gas than the normals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,337 Posts
The numbers do work:1.82 + 3.91 = 5.721.24 + 7.60 = 8.84
quote:I don't know how they determined if a person has flatulence
They just asked patients who complained of it. So it would be ironic if it actually turned out they less gas than the normals.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,797 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
quote:The numbers do work:
Yes they do.
quote:They just asked patients who complained of it.
Oh do you have the paper?. Do you understand Spanish? Or is there an English translation somewhere?
quote:So it would be ironic if it actually turned out they less gas than the normals.
LOL. Like IBS patients who have gas but never pass it
But they do seem to have more fecal fermentation with lactulose.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,797 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
quote:The numbers do work:
Yes they do.
quote:They just asked patients who complained of it.
Oh do you have the paper?. Do you understand Spanish? Or is there an English translation somewhere?
quote:So it would be ironic if it actually turned out they less gas than the normals.
LOL. Like IBS patients who have gas but never pass it
But they do seem to have more fecal fermentation with lactulose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,788 Posts
Out of curiosity, what would be the connection to fermentation and gas and bowel distension and pain in IBS?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,788 Posts
Out of curiosity, what would be the connection to fermentation and gas and bowel distension and pain in IBS?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,337 Posts
quote:5.72 isn't that 5.73
yes.
quote:what would be the connection to fermentation and gas and bowel distension and pain in IBS
Information regarding this comes from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=10925977 What they found is that in their IBS subjects, there is more gas present in the gut at any one time. However, interestingly it was not related to the sensation of bloating. We don't know if the rate of gas production or input (from the atmosphere) is any different because it is likely based on other studies, that it's the rate of transit of gas that is inefficient (aka the infamous "trapped gas")
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,337 Posts
quote:5.72 isn't that 5.73
yes.
quote:what would be the connection to fermentation and gas and bowel distension and pain in IBS
Information regarding this comes from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=10925977 What they found is that in their IBS subjects, there is more gas present in the gut at any one time. However, interestingly it was not related to the sensation of bloating. We don't know if the rate of gas production or input (from the atmosphere) is any different because it is likely based on other studies, that it's the rate of transit of gas that is inefficient (aka the infamous "trapped gas")
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,788 Posts
Flux, I was thinking more that fermentation causes gas bubbles and altered transit in IBS traps the gas in pockets, which distends the colon, which is PRESSURE sensitive to ALL stimuli and when the colon distends from gas bubbles or just distension, it can cause pain.That was my thoughts at least.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,788 Posts
Flux, I was thinking more that fermentation causes gas bubbles and altered transit in IBS traps the gas in pockets, which distends the colon, which is PRESSURE sensitive to ALL stimuli and when the colon distends from gas bubbles or just distension, it can cause pain.That was my thoughts at least.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,797 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
"However, the tolerance to the intestinal gas load differed markedly, depending on the site of distension; perception remained low during rectal distension (2.6 +/- 0.7 score; not significant vs. control) but increased during duodenal distension (4.4 +/- 0.7 score; P < 0.05 vs. control). " http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12946941 It seems that it is more lkikely that duodenal distension causes perception rather than colonic distension.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top