[bonniei]

flux if you don't want to state what your criticisms of Christl's study are on this thread, http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...27;t=001878;p=1 if you continue saying, 'The study is not impressive, Trust me' I an afraid you are beginning to sound like Baghdad Bob

 

[scottyswotty]

haha this board is such a microcosm of differing opinions on any topic!

 

[bonniei]

 

[bonniei]

i love your signature BTW, scottyi am thinking of changing my signature to 'i have access to certain medical info but don't let me brag about it '

 

[flux]

I was never convinced of measurements in that thing:

Now that same thing is being used to claim evidence of abnormal flora in IBS http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/quer...st_uids=9777836 and the measurements disagree with LBHT measurements. BTW, wasn't the regression paper assuming LBHT measurements correlate. So one paper must be wrong, no?

 

[kel1059]

quote:I have kept detailed logs and have been literally forced to live onvirtually carbohydrate-free diet, which only helps to a point. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=maurice+...enet.com&rnum=2

the above is a quote from flux.flux,you have been dodging my question for a while now. how do you know it is gas?did you develop colitis after the repeated gut sterilization procedures?did you use probiotics?don't be bashful. you just have to want to be helped.are you still living on the carb free diet? you know that can't be healthy long term.

 

[AlphaMale]

quote:the above is a quote from flux

interesting

 

[bonniei]

flux,

quote:I was never convinced of measurements in that thing:

The thing as you call it was an airtight room in Christl's case.

quote:and the measurements disagree with LBHT measurements.

In what way? Are you looking at averages again?

 

[flux]

quote:In what way?

A joke?

 

[bonniei]

quote:A joke?

No flux, spell it out for me.

 

[kel1059]

flux,a follow up on the fungi study at mayo.Many studies at Mayo Clinic have added evidence to the thinking that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune reaction to fungi in the nose. Our original study linking chronic rhinosinusitis to fungi in the nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic Proceedings in September 1999, has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus center in Europe (ENT University Hospital in Graz, Austria).There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic Rochester to further investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory diseases of the respiratory tract.In addition, researchers from the Allergic Diseases Research Laboratory at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester found that certain white blood cells called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and were producing the kind of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that healthy people did not react in that way. This work was presented at the 2001 Annual Meeting of the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology and will be published soon.The evidence was so convincing that the National Institute of Health (NIH) has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to further investigate the mechanisms behind this immunologic response to the fungi. http://www.mayoclinic.org/ent-rst/chronicsinus.html

 

[flux]

quote:No flux, spell it out for me

This is beyond obvious. You must be joking.

 

[bonniei]

flux I'll get you the figures. Let me type it out. It all refers to averages. Gosh you are makin me feel really ignorant. But I'll put the figures and you tell me what is wrong with them.BTW it is kind of flattering to think that you think I joke around so much!

 

[bonniei]

The only time they mention hydrogen measurements in King's paper besides the graphs is in in Table 1 where they say Total volume of hydrogen in ml/24 hrFor PatientsOn Standard diet=332*(318-478)On Exclusion diet =79*(59-113)For Controls On Standard diets =162*(126-217)On exclusion diet=95* (66-107)*Wilcoxon matched pairs standard vs exclusion , p <0.5And then there are the excretion rates which don't have to do with LHBT

 

[bonniei]

So? How is this in disagreement with LBHT? He barely mentions the lactulose figures. Al l he does is talk about std and exclusion diets. I must be missing something.

 

[bonniei]

Ok here are Hammer's figures after ingestion of 12.5 g of Lactulose in normal subjectsBreath hydrogen in ml/6h Mean (SEM)=89(12)Now if you multiply by 4 you get 336 ml/24 hr. So this does seem high compared to Kings 162(126-217) ml/24 h for normals on std diets.Is that why you think the figures contradict ech other, flux?Help me make sense of it.

 

[flux]

quote:I must be missing something.

Yes, it's my bad

Sorry, I got the papers confused and posted the wrong link..It's this paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/quer...t_uids=12169984 where the data are contradictory. And they used Christl's air leak chamber (they have the only one on Earth).

 

[bonniei]

Hi flux, I don't have the paper to really comment on it but by reading the abstract I would like to comment on the correlation that you were talking about. In Hammer's paper there was a positive correlation between hydrogen in breath to hydrogen in flatus ,measured simultaneously. It seems in this second King's abstract that you cited they calculate the total hydrogen excreted on breath and flatus over 24 hours and then calculate the hydrogen on breath over the 3 hours following that. So not only is it not calculated simultaneously, their total volume is that of hydrogen in breath and flatus instead of total hydrogen in flatus. So these are two obvious differences to meSimilarly in King's first experiment breath and flatus were measured simultaneously.It is interesting that " However, this sub-group of patients (who have total high hydrogen) cannot be identified by measuring breath-hydrogen excretion after lactulose."As for the air leak chamber,