Irritable Bowel Syndrome and Digestive Health Support Forum banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Interesting reading ----- roz http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=002242...1/7/thtest.html THE case of the civil servant who sneezed some four million times before discovering he was allergic to his home-made muesli sent shivers down many spines. If, as Patrick Webster claimed in June, 60 doctors failed over 35 years to diagnose his food allergy, what does this mean for the rest of us? Just what proportion of sinus problems - not to mention cases of IBS, migraine, arthritis and eczema - are due to an adverse reaction to something in our diet? Allergy specialists estimate that between 15 and 20 per cent of the population probably suffer from some kind of food intolerance. Part of the problem is that it is extremely difficult to get a definitive diagnosis. Classic allergy is easy to define and detect. The body responds to a normally harmless substance - nuts, shellfish, house mites, cats - by producing the IgE antibody, which usually helps protect us against invading bacteria or viruses. A simple skin prick test or a Rast blood test will reveal which allergens provoke an IgE response. However, a growing number of doctors now recognise what a small band - and many complementary therapists - have suspected for years: that there are other, complex reactions to food that do not involve the IgE antibody but which can cause patients severe distress. "People have said that if the skin prick test is negative, the condition does not exist," says Dr Michael Radcliffe, associate specialist in allergy at the Middlesex Hospital, London. "That is nonsense. If you listen to patients and look at various high-quality studies using food elimination and reintroduction, it becomes clear that there is a range of reactions to food that we do not understand. "There is only one way to measure what we know as food intolerance and that is to take out all potentially troublesome foods from the diet, then gradually put them back and see what happens. The elimination diet is the gold standard." By Dr Radcliffe's admission, the elimination diet requires enormous commitment and motivation from the patient, even when conducted under medical supervision. And medical supervision is hard to find, says Muriel Simmons, chief executive of the British Allergy Foundation. "The average waiting time for an appointment at an NHS allergy clinic is two years in England and Wales and five years in Scotland. It is not surprising that people turn to all sorts of other methods to try to find out what is causing the problem. Many are pure quackery, and few practitioners seem prepared to submit their techniques to proper scientific study." When Health Which? magazine looked at allergy testing methods, including applied kinesiology, blood and hair analysis and electrodermal testing, it concluded that "none of the tests had any diagnostic value for any form of food hypersensitivity." Researchers were given different results and conflicting advice by different practitioners of the same test. As Jonathan Brostoff, formerly professor of allergy and environmental health at University College London Medical School and a leading authority on the subject, points out, there are many people walking around who claim to have had their food sensitivities identified. However, this proves very little. "Given that the most common sources of food intolerance are wheat and milk, such therapists can achieve a reasonable success rate by diagnosing sensitivity to these two foods in all their patients. If eggs, oranges, chocolate, tea and coffee are added to the list, they may well achieve success with 50 per cent or more." Dr Radcliffe, who took over Prof Brostoff's clinic last month, hopes that a reliable, repeatable and scientifically verifiable test will be found. Among the contenders is a version of the patch test, which has long been used by dermatologists investigating skin problems caused by allergic reactions. Blood/hair analysis Health Which? investigated two blood tests - the cytotoxic test and the Elisa method - and a hair-testing service. It was highly critical of all three. However, the Elisa test, carried out by York Laboratories, was the "only one to come up with even roughly matching results for samples taken from the same researcher." The Elisa test uses a small blood sample taken at home and sent to a laboratory where it is mixed with a number of common allergens. The theory is that if you are sensitive to a particular food, your body will produce an IgG antibody. A colour change in the blood sample indicates the presence of an IgG reaction. Laboratories using the Elisa test claim that around 70 per cent of patients experience some benefit within a month or two of changing diets. The most common problems are gastro-intestinal symptoms, headaches and skin conditions. Research suggests that IgG may be linked to food sensitivities, but the case is not proven. Three clinical trials involving the Elisa test are due to start on IBS and migraine patients within the next year. Dr Radcliffe is helping to set up a double-blind randomised controlled trial at Southampton University where half the patients will be given a diet based on the correct test results and the rest will be given a diet which is not based on the results. York Nutritional Laboratory 0800 074 6185; Immunology###Home 01353 862220 Various machines can, according to their operators, detect allergic reactions to foods and other substances. They are based on technology developed in the middle of the last century by a German scientist, Dr Reinhold Voll. The patient holds a metal rod in one hand while a probe is applied to an acupuncture point on the skin. As the patient is exposed to different allergens, the machine measures the body's response. Some studies have indicated that electrodermal testing is a useful diagnostic tool, but most doctors believe it has no scientific basis. Allergy specialist Dr Keith Scott-Mumby has used a Vega machine of the kind found in many health food shops and describes it as "little better than electronic dowsing. You can influence the result by what you are thinking." According to a survey by Allergycare, which operates around 600 Vega machines on a franchise basis, 84 per cent of those who responded to its consumer questionnaire felt better as a result of their consultation with a Vega machine operator. However, the British Allergy Foundation is concerned that some operators have very little training. "People with no nutritional expertise hand out diet sheets and patients can be made ill by being given a huge list of things they should exclude from their diet," says Muriel Simmons of the foundation. The Best machine, a faster and more sophisticated computerised version of the Vega, sends through the skin an electrical "signature" of each potential allergen and assesses the response. More than 100 foods can apparently be tested in 15 minutes and the system scans 29,000 remedies. No independent clinical trials have been done, but BioTech Health and Nutrition Centre, which distributes the machine in Britain, estimates its accuracy in assessing intolerance at 85 to 90 per cent. Allergycare 01823 325023; BioTech Health and Nutrition Centre 01730 233414 This approach to allergy testing is based on the theory that sensitivity to certain foods can interfere with energy flow and that this interference can be assessed by testing muscles. The potential allergen is placed between the patient's lips. The practitioner then moves the patient's limbs into various positions and applies pressure to gauge whether muscle strength is affected by the presence of the allergen. There is very little scientific evidence for this therapy. In one experiment, six patients were identified as having a "positive" reaction to milk. When these were retested in a double-blind way, the results were no better than chance. And when repeated, different people were identified as having milk allergies. Health Which? researchers were given different - and sometimes conflicting - advice from different practitioners. There is no shortage of anecdotal evidence for the efficacy of kinesiology, though standards and success rates vary widely, depending upon the skill of the practitioner. Claire Moffat, a kinesiologist with 15 years experience estimates that she has a success rate of around 70 per cent in identifying and treating food intolerance. "Obviously, some practitioners are better than others. But kinesiology does not rely on intuition. It gives consistent, reproducible results." Association of Systematic Kinesiology: send an sae to 39 Browns Road, Surbiton, Surrey KT5 8ST. If you are advised to give up certain foods, check with your GP that you are not putting your health at risk. Try the recommended diet for a month. If you see no improvement, you are probably barking up the wrong tree. A reputable practitioner will support patients by giving nutritional advice. 'I was poisoning myself' FOR most of the Nineties, Verity Rawlings, 51, from Exmouth in Devon, suffered from digestive problems and felt generally lethargic and unwell. "I had terrible nausea and tiredness. I looked and felt five months pregnant. My stomach was so distended, I couldn't do up my shoelaces." Verity's GP diagnosed stress and advised her to give up her much-loved antiques business. But after she had closed the shop, Verity's symptoms got worse, so she opened another. "I decided I was just going to have to live with the problem." After reading about the symptoms of food intolerance in a magazine, Verity sent a tiny blood sample to York Nutritional Laboratory. "When the results came back, I was astonished. It said I was highly allergic to citrus fruit. I used to eat a lot of fruit and after I gave up work, I looked forward to my evening gin and tonic with lemon or lime. It was in my stomach overnight, which is why I was in such terrible pain. "Within a week of giving up citrus, the IBS, nausea, bloatedness and exhaustion disappeared. I lost half a stone immediately and another half a stone came off later. I am active and full of life again for the first time in six years. I was poisoning myself without realising it." 2 November 2000: Let them eat cake - safely 30 June 2000: [UK News] Home-made muesli made man sneeze 4m times in 35 years 15 June 2000: Coffee could save victims of nut allergy 30 March 2000: Allergies hit 40pc of the population 28 December 1996: [UK News] Research yields clues to peanut allergy deaths 30 August 1996: [UK News] Pregnant women told to avoid peanuts 29 July 1996: [UK News] Peanut testing kit could end allergy fears Is Ritalin a friend or foe? Click here to save up to 50 per cent on health books at Amazon.co.uk. Search Health for Front Page | UK News | International | Weather | Crosswords | Matt cartoon | Feedback City News | City Analysis | Small Businesses | Personal Finance (Telegraph Money) | Alex cartoon Sport | Football | Rugby Union | Rugby League | Cricket | Golf | Tennis | Motor Racing | Other Sport Features | Review | Books | Gallery | Technology (Connected) | Travel (Planet) | Motoring | Property Education (Virtual School) | Students (Juiced) | Teenagers (T2) | Obituaries | Opinion (Daily Telegraph) Expat World (Global Network) | Search | Site Plan | Daily Index | Appointments | Jobs ### ET | Classifieds | Horoscopes � Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2000. Terms & www.telegraph.co.uk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
ROZGood post. Boy do we remember these articles and series in the U.K all the way back to 1992...there are many that were published in such things as THE DAILY MAIL as well. The UK is full of them over the last 8-10 years. Brings back memeories as that is about the year of my first partial remission, when I first made the acquaintance of the investigators at the core of this problem. The article was a very clear reflection of the extreme technologic difficulties and limitations of the time. It sort of synopsized the limited progress in "identification, discrimination and elimination" of food intolerances. It was not long after these series began being published (actually September 1993) that Dr. Pasula (who had at that date been collaborating with Brostoff for 15 years seeking solutions via better in vitro testing methods)left his prior research affiliation which had dead-ended and formed a new company to take his work further. And the newly patented MRT (Mediator Release Test...9/5/00) was the end result of these last 7 years of work.In the U.K. the awareness of the problem, and examination of it, as well as the public understanding, is way ahead and above the U.S. for several distinct reasons (that have mostly to do with what drives the healthcare delivery system here versus there).Have a DFDMNL_________________ www.leapallergy.com [This message has been edited by Mike NoLomotil (edited 11-09-2000).][This message has been edited by Mike NoLomotil (edited 11-09-2000).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,847 Posts
I was waiting for MNL to respond to this one roz. I do have empathy for the man with the citrus fruit sensitivity and was downing fruit flavored drinks like crazy, especially during my IBS switch from C to D. I have had hints of the sensitivity since I was a little girl but didn't know it, and only found out a couple of years ago through food/chemical sensitivity testing when it became more pronounced. I wonder whether or not the man has a problem with tomatoes and the additive citric acid as well like I do. Mike, you said the tomato actually has benzoic acid rather than citric acid, is that right? That was the second thing I was found sensitive too, which is why soda pop is not good for me either (in fact they often contain both). Thanks for the post roz.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
HI MOLDED ONE!Basically, since under 'aerobic' conditions (normal oxidative metabolism)the ciric acid cycle creates ATP (the cellular energy source). If citric acid could produce an allergic response one would be allergic to something in every cell in the body and the immune system I guess would destroy us if it were possible.So you cannot be reactive to it just like salt or water. It is "self".See? It is occassionally possible for me to give a short answer.'Soda pop' can have quite a few other things besides benzoate in it that can make you ill, esp. the food colorings, artifical sweeteners, artificial flavors, and caffeine. Wanna quick gut flush? Think "Ima Pepper Youra Pepper Hesa Pepper Shesa Pepper Wouldncha Like to be a Pepper Too?". It'll put pep in your step all right!Have a DFEMNL_______________ www.leapallergy.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,847 Posts
Mike, this is inconsistent with what my Allergist has found. My abd. swole up with this allergen and I had a dull ache. He has been in this business for twenty years and has great credentials. Perhaps it is that it is in a concentrated form and chemically produced for an additive by fermenting sugars. This may further have irritated my bowel-yeast? Could that be the case? I thought that tomatoes contained a fair amount of citric acid which is enhanced by cooking, as I can tolerate a little fresh tomato. Conentrated lemon juice is very bad for me too. What is it that is in the citrus fruits that is irritating then? Maybe that is part of my fibro problem. My immune system seems to be draining on my energy and although I have not lost all function of my body, it seems that much of it has been compromised.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
HI MOLDIE:I am not questioning your allergist and have no doubt as to credentials etc...but rather there may be a discrepency somewhere between what is called "allergy" and what is the "citric acid". Could have several non-immunologic reactions under certain conditions (a pharmacotoxic reaction, not immunologic, or a cytotoxic reaction)depending upon what it is exactly you were given in what form, by what method...so maybe we are just on different pages as is often the case with so called "allergy" and "immunology" and "intolerance" and yadadayada. definitions. Lets see if we can figger it out...1. What was the specific "allergen" administered(he said it was "citric acid")?2. How was it administered and in what form was it in (physically)3. Under what conditions was the challenge-test or whatever administered (no controlled condition like prefasting or anything etc.)4. The symptoms you describe occured when after however the "allergen" was administered (time frame)This might help elucidate the reaction...there are more reactions than "allergy" (Type I gel & Coombs reactions) so we have to look to refine our mutual understanding of method and definition.Lemon reaction might be just the lemon reactivity, or depending upon the lemon source another substance combined with it. Thats why orla challenge or in vitro methods use FDA certified pure food extracts (unless there is none made so we have to make it ourselves...tedious).I have to run...I have been summoned home for unexpected dinner guests (Thanks...10 minutes to 5 on Friday is not a good time to call me with that news!)...so I will come back tomorrow slow down and go through it with you if you can just sort of describe in detail what the doc did.And your symptoms can definitiely come from hypersensitivity reactions...when they are chronic is feels to some people like walkign around with a low grade infection all the time.But the tomato is the tomato, or the benzoic acid or a contmainant or additive in the tomato prep...I just asked (2) immunologists who said for the reasons I said yesterday whatever it is it is non-immunologic (to citric acid). So we'll zero in on it. No doubt it is there...I be back tomorrow Molder....have a pain free eveningMNL________________ www.leapallergy.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
HI MOLDING ONE>I see like me you have not had time to come back either. Busy morning. I have to run to do my babysitting thing with BabyNL in 5 minutes, but I can add one or two things absent the other information I asked for to zero-in on the issue of the "acids" and reactivity.Now, if what you are saying as I understand it is that you get gut-symptoms from all citrus fruits, this opens the possibility of cross-reactivity (if you have a hypersensitivity reaction to one you can be cross-reactive to others) AND/OR it brings up the possibility you have fructose intolerance. That's why I ask so many stupid questions. Trying to get the accurate picture of the diet, the testing, and the substances.Plus, the way most citric acid is manufactured, depending upon what and how the conclusion was reached there is also the possibility of reactivity to a byproduct which remains with the fruit acid as a result of which manufacturing process the acid was obtained from.For example CA is made commercially by fermenting cane sugar or molasses with a fungus present (Aspergillus niger), and I would want to do some digging on the process and if any low-level byproducts come with the commercial CA if that is what one is evaluating sensitivity to. There are other ways, too, but this is primary.For example, saponin is a byproduct of glycolic acid manufacture. Its a hemolytic agent...but the cosmetic companies in the USA sort of forget to mention that there is saponin in the products with glycolic too, and that it can penetrate the skin, enter the cirulation, go to the liver, and accumulate over time. At least according to some immunologists I know from Switzerland who do hypersensitivity-testing for the cosmetic industry on contract. Over a beer they mentioned their horror some years ago about the use of glycolic acid in the US cosmetics, and this was one of several things they pointed out as long term dangrs.So there may be some result of the use of Aspergillus to make the CA and one may be sensitive to that (CA as you know is dumped into all kinds of processed foods.)Anyway. I gotta run so we can show up again when we show up again eh?Have an acid-free weekend!MikeNL___________ www.leapallergy.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,847 Posts
eeeeeEeegads Mike, now you have me worried over my cosmetic use. Maybe that accounts for my adult-oncet acne? I can't help but think if only I hadn't taken the antibiotics for it, I wouldn't be in this position now. But as my husband says, if the world were full of ifs and ands, you'd be the only but.I just assumed that the first time my allergist chose to test for citric acid was because I had mentioned getting a stomach ache from spaghetti sauce even as a child, and I also thought that tomatoes were in the same class as citrus fruits. He did not come out and say that they were. He did tell me that I could only drink freshly squeezed orange juice in moderation and not eat the whole fruit. It wasn't until my second visit that he tested me for benzoic acid with the same type of reaction. As I said in the past, they were double blinded sublingual testing. I would get some drops and have no reaction, and then a drop that would create one. The antigen drop would follow, sometimes not improving, and sometimes improving it. They would increase the number of drops until the right antigen level seemed to be reached. The sensitivity of candida molds, I believe was both a sublingual and an interdermal reaction. They took blood as well, and tested my immune system prior to treatment. I seem to tolerate some other fresh fruits in moderation, but commercially prepared juices, especially the citrus ones can be a problem.I made my special chili yesterday Mike with the carrot juice. This time I took out the peppers and the onions. I only had a mild gas problem from the beans, and that was it. Next time, I'll include the onions without the peppers and see what happens. Cooked onions in my chicken rice soup doesn't seem to matter too much though, so I think it was the peppers.Thanks again for your patience. Hey, remember that post flux did his martian picture on recently? Couldn't find it. I'm thinking Jeff pulled it. Probably just as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
HI MOLDIE.OK now I got the full picture...I read so much and write so much between the e-mail from patients, these boards off the web, doctors, their patients, then all the business stuff my old tired brain misses or forgets sometimes what was posted before by someone. Anyone seen my dog? Oh, I don't have one. Sorry. You did, I remember now, say that sublingual testing was used.This method was developed and refined some years ago I beleive by a doctor from Alabama named Dr. Miller. His method of combining sublingual and subcutaneous provocations is also often combined with desensitization therapy accomplished in similar manner. Personally, I cannot comment one way or the other about the method diagnostically per se because the results over the years (results meaning outcomes, not how well the subQ and subL provo correlate with symptom onset etc)have basically been felt to be "operator dependent". Sort of like the old original cytotoxic test. Repeatability and reliability were major issues.The wheal and flare reactions compared with the symptom onset by subQ application together are felt by some advocates to suggest not only IgE/IgG reactions, but other mechanisms. The difficulty is that the subL is dependent upon absorption through the mucosa and some allergens are not absorbed through the subL mucosa.Others point out a high rate of false positives from the method when it is compared to blind oral challenge...ie: the results do not correlate.It is one of those things that I see the experts debate because the results are variable, not because patients do not seem to benefit (which they do in many practitioners hands).I would not dissuade one from the method based upon who argues about what, since NOBODY understands the immune system well enough to simply dismiss observations outright as fallacious because they are implausible under current knowledge. This is one of the riskiest fields of physioloy to behave like that. Lest one enjoys dining on "crow" from time to time.It is better for the patient to consider the outcomes as a measure of the effectiveness of the method. IF the method used can identifiy for you clearly what to consume and not to comnsume, and when you remove the substances from the diet you are told not to consume the symptoms are reduced to your personal satisfaction, then anyone who questions the outcome is simply applying the limit of their own understanding of the mechanisms involved to persuade you that the outcomes you are experiencing are implausible. Thats nothing but ego. So what? It is as real as you feel regardless of the mechanism, no?I think that from your exprience you may see there is some specificity issue, perhaps, and perhaps not. In other words, some of the results may correlate very strongly to specific identifiable foods or substances that when they are withdrawn for a time and you carefully monitor your response, the response is positive. And in some areas you can see the response is mixed and the specificity is vague...Like the juices and fruits things. If you are reactive to a fruit you will be reactive to its juice, but the dose relationship may vary. You have seen, the way it is processed can alter the equation, which introduces variables that squeezing it into a glass and drinking it do not introduce. So one or more of those chemicals may be the issue.In the end, as regards the original question, I am wondering if you were tested for fructose intolerance and if not (if you are pleased with the specificity of the method your doctor uses) maybe this could be checked. Since you say things like "I can eat this or that in moderation", this is consistent with the cardinal signs of delayed-allergic reactions...dose dependency...and you have apparent reactivity across many fruits. Hmmm.O Molding One, I think that what we are left with as regards citric acid is as follows. On one hand you had a response to subL CA at some dose level based upon apparent symptom onset. If someone put an allergen under your tongue and you got sick while you were sitting there this is a classic allergy, as the mechanisms of Type I Gel & Coombs reactions are the most obvious answer. Especially if the subQ correlated. The other "intolerance mechanisms" simply do not occur that fast nor in those small doses.If this happened with benzoic acid you are allerguc to benzoic acid with a high probability. My immunologist suggests that if this happened with citric acid it is not the citric acid itself but an contaminant of the extract that is a byproduct of how the citric acid was obtained. He is an expert in this area as he has had to spend 30 years with extracts to do his research work, both commercial extracts from approved manufacturing sources, and having to prepare his own when extracts are just not available. Since the reaction is quick and obvious it points to a so-called calssic "allergic response", as even the minutest quantity in some people of an allergen can trigger the reaction. But he maintains that citric acid itself (pure 100% citric acid) could not cause the allergy because citric acid is "self", like "salt" or "water"...it is in all the body cells. If one were reactive, since it is always in the body, one would have a non-stop autoimmune response which would be fairly obvious since autoimmune reactions can be discriminated.So we have only his contention that there is something which accompanies the citric acid in the source of exposure that causes the reaction. Thats as far as we can go because, of course, that reflects HIS knowledge of immunology, too, so...????Regardless, none of this has anything to do with whether your doctor is good or not or the research immunologist knows something or not. If he (your doctor) is studious enough to use this method, he is forward thinking and looking beyond the bounds of archaic thought in the food intolerance field. As such he gets a tip of the hat and my comment you are lucky to be with him as you will in all likelihood get benefits. It would not surprise me if he keeps abreast of new things as well and is openminded.Have a DFDMNL_______________ www.leapallergy.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,847 Posts
Hi Mike. How about the fact that it is just too much acid for my body to handle in such a concentrated form and not really the citris part? I do think it has something to do with the fermented sugars part too. I just had some hot apple cider at a Floral/Garden center's Christmas Open House. My stomach/abd. gave the same reaction - the dull ache and the bloating. They served soda and coffee too, which I can't handle either, so decided is was the lesser evil. Just give me tea and water. I just get bored with it and push the envelope at times. It's the social drinker syndrome. Fortunately I only do it in small amounts and infrequently. I can eat most other fruits if I don't eat too many since I can't have too much sugar because of the candida. I tried freshly squeezed lemon, and had a bad reaction. Another thing I noted once is that sometimes my mouth mucosa seems to react a little to fresh apple, yet I don't seem to get a stomach ache from it. I am to see the allergist next month and will ask him about the fructose testing. He does try and keep up on the latest as he quotes stuff to me from time to time. Thanks for the added input and link-up to the other post M.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top