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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted before about what to eat for dinner especially. I used to be able to eat a piece of chicken every night with steamed veges and my two pieces of bread. But more and more i find myself not being able to eat it more than two nights in a row. I feel like i am going to barf. I need other stuff to eat. i had tuna last night which was okay. And, i am sick of the DAMN veges. I put sweet and sour sauce on them or stirfry sauce but they don't taste that good.HELP!!Matt
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Hi MattI would also feel sick if I had to eat the same diet every night.What foods can you eat? What foods can you eat that you like?If you give us some ingredients maybe we can come up with some new ideas for your supper!roz
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
There isn't much i can eat. Veges don't really help move things along. Fruit seems to block me up too although i eat both. I can't eat peanuts or dairy or meat. Fish bothers me too. there is NOTHING!! Too much oil seems to screw me up too. Matt
 

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MATT;Hi. So you are getting constipation AND nausea? Aside from the usual admonition that anyone with GI trouble that their PCP has not helped with should be see by a board Certified gastroenterologist (which you kenw I would say already) is there an eating patetrn (food list) that you know does NOT give you symptoms if you were on it for at least 3 days?Assuming a GI has worked you up and you are "pathology free" to start dietary manipulation to find whats what can be done, but it requires crtain procedures be followed. There are ways that can be simple and there are books you can read I can refer you to.But I would like to see first if there is such a diet you know of like I asked. I gotta go to lunch and eat MY fixed-diet, then a meeting. be back laterMNL
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Matt --- Do all veggies and all fruits give you problems? What about grains? couscous - bulgar wheat - semolina - oats - millet - polenta etc.?The sweet and sour & stir fry sauces may contain something that gives you problems.Have you tried oven roasting your veggies with a drizzle of olive oil and a little salt & pepper sprinkled on top - peppers, carrots, sweet potatoes, etc are really tasty done this way.Lentil salads are good and healthy and would make a good addition.Might be best though to start (like Mike suggests with an exclusion diet).roz
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I can't really name anything that i am sure i can eat. Sometimes even the turkey i eat makes me bloated . But the bloating might be a delay from something else. Who knows. I forgot to mention that the pasta and bread and rice that i used to eat for dinners caused C as far as i can figure. So i haven't eaten that for a few months.I just don't know what to eat. This is what i eat all day:Cereal for breakfast (including some bran with my corn flakes)--the cereal bloats me ( i have soy milk with it.For lunch i have crackers (triscuits or saltines) with turkey and sometimes tomato. Sometimes some melon or grapesFor a snack i usually have a soft pretzel (which doesn't seem to bother me--i think it is the iced coffee that bothers me)I have a usually sugar-free candy. Sometimes a piece of regularSometimes i have a yogurt (soy) with some soynuts maybe if i am still hungry. For dinner, i have a piece of chicken with steamed veges with some type of bottled sauce on it and my two pieces of breadFor a snack or dessert i have some canned fruit, sometimes with an italian ice or with a cut up heated appled (to soften it)That is about it. I have this insatiable hunger too that i can't get rid of. It has been a little better since i stopped all the carbs (pasta and rice) but i still have it. Matt
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hey matt seem like we have the same diet. My only safe food are turkey cold cuts and bread. I know how it feel to eat the same thing for lunch and dinner for 5 months in a row. Try rice it works for me 80% or the time. white rice with soy sauce or sometimes sweet and sour. Also chicken rice soup is a winner. I can eat grilled chicken about 75% of the time try diffrent sauces on it I have even started using wood chips in the grill to give the chichen a diffrent taste. Lime shebert is safe too. I went to my GI doc for the first time today and he said IBS have very little do to with your diet. I was shocked and thought he must not have a clue what he was talking about but he said something that made me think he said....If your alergic to a food or in the case of IBS if a food is a trigger for you every time you eat it you will get sick. If you ever eat something and you dont get sick and then you eat it agian and do its not the food just bad luck....Haize
 

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I would just like to mention that the sugarless gum or candy might be contributing to your bloating as it contains sorbitol wich causes very bad "gas" and "bloating". Also skip the "sauces" I think the sugar in them cause bloating & gas. Just a thought.If I ate what you eat every day, I'd be sick too. Too boring having same stuff over & over. Sorry I'm not coming down on you but you need a change in diet, maybe even see a dietician might have some other food suggestions.
 

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Matt, I can't eat turkey or dark chicken meat. Try eating only white chicken meat, it might help. Like Roz, I also have recently discovered roasted veggies are great! You take a variety of veggies cut in fairly big pieces (par cook things like brocoli or carrots first) add oil and different spices and bake. Yummy!Matt, you might be still eating too many carbs. "Two slices of bread, crackers, cereal, pretzel, and candy" - that's a lot of carbs and could be what causing the insatiable hunger. If you reduce the carbs it should get rid of that hunger feeling. What kind of bread are you eating? Hope its the Food-For-Life stuff or sprouted grain type. Maybe try eating a slice for breakfast instead of cereal and have the second slice with lunch or dinner.Silver's right about the sorbitol in the candy - check the ingredients on the label before you buy it.It also might help to go to a health food store and try some of the vegan products as they have less additives and you therefore might be more tolerant of them. I find the more back-to-basics foods easier on my IBS. All the suggestions offered by people on this posting may sound like a lot of trouble, but if it makes you feel better it will be worth it. I sort of cheated on my low carb diet for a week or so due to family birthdays and I immediately noted my energy level dropped and my hunger pangs started up. Back to normal now and feeling great![This message has been edited by me3 (edited 09-23-2000).]
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My stomach is killing me today. I had a tuna sandwich last night with pretzels for dinner. Then i had a yogurt and a small dark chocolate bar (i hardly ever have the chocolate so that was unusual). then i had that insatiable hunger again and went back and finished off the last of the tuna with some more pretzels.Maybe i am still eating too many carbs. i cut having bread out with my turkey at lunch. That is why i added the one serving of crackers. I don't usually have pretzels everyday. But i have been having the cereal. I thought the bran would help but i do feel hungry often after it. Maybe i don't need it.The thing about the pretzels too is that not only do they make me hungry but the cause C. Or maybe it was the combo of the tuna and the pretzels. Who knows. And, the bread i ate is the ezekial. I almost gag thinking of having chicken and veges tonight for dinner. Matt
 

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HI MATT.Ugh. What a way to start the day. benn there, done that, got the stomach pump and wrist band...ech...Just a quick observation...the stuff you ate last night has so many different things in it that can, alone or in combination, be giving you trouble no one would know where to start. We would have to amke a list of each thing which might be bad for you but fine for someone else.My first recommendation to you is to order Professot Jonathan Brostofs Book FOOD ALLERGIES AND FOOD INTOELERANCE: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO THEIR IDENTIFICATION AND TREATMENT. He is one of the worlds top immunologists and he and his dietician who co-wrote the book have been working with people like us for decades. the book is $18 and is an excellent investment...and no I have no financial interest in Dr. Brostoffs Book sales.If you want to peek or order, click here onURL FOR DR> BROSTOFFS BOOK ON AMAZON: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...6487508-3420903 -------------NUMBER 2 general statement is to first rememeber there is no "one size fits all" eating plan for IBS. Everyone here, while statistically sharing many commonalities (see the clip below) has nuances to their diet resultant by their personal symptoms and responses and complicating factors.The basic principal (nad difficulty) with situation slike yours (assuming you are already under th care of a Board Certified GI doctor and all organic disease has been ruled out) is that there are only a couple of effective ways to go. You have to start from "nothing" (go on a stoneage diet and stay on it until your symptoms subside so you know that ate least what you are eating is not reactive in any way), then start serial oral challenges in a very structured manner.OR one uses one of the modified approaches which Brostoff (and other authors) discusses in his book, for folks not prepared for the hard core approach (diet free of pseudoallergens first, and see you response, then eliminate or add depending upon reaction). Or one takes a shortcut with one or two in vitro tests that are available to help zero-in more quickly on offensing foods.The advantage of doing it yourself is it costs you nothing but time and effort and tries your patience. But I think the disease tried my patience worse than seeking the precipitating factors. The disadvantage is obvious: if it is not dobe in a structured fashion, carefully following procedure, you will get poor results and mor frustration. There is no free lunch or magic bullet yet. Only different routes of getting there depending upon which makes sense to you.I have included here a summary on veggies which can cause "pseudoallergy"...false food allergy. Same symptoms and problems as if one was hypersensitivie otr allergic, but that can happen to anyone due to substances in the food. This is another starter, to which can be added a long list of irritant foods, which varies depending upon who writes it, and by the time one eliminates everything on both lists to start, plus anything you are dead-on certain you are sensitive to, most people are pretty close to one of the "stoneage diets" of three or four starting itmes anyway. So I skippped that part. Someone else can add it to their post to save length of mine, since I put up the pseudoallergy foods first.---------------------------------------------------BACKGROUND----------------------As we have all read over and over, once a correct diagnosis of IBS is made (all the post-infection, inflammatory bowel disease, enzyme deficiency, and traditional "rapid onset" allergy causes of bowel dysfunction have all been evaluated and ruled out or treated) what is left is a problem of a hyperactive/reactive gut combined often with systemic symptoms (that can manifest themselves a number of ways). Diet, mental state, and overall health at any given time influence symptoms. Mental state is managed with various "affective" therapies depending upon the disease management approach of the particular clinician/patient combo (some prefer cognitive therapies, meditation or yoga, hypnotherapy) and add supportive pharmacotherapy as required.Interventional pharmacotherapy and dietary supplement therapy is often used to manage direct GI symptoms as dietary therapy is often frustrated by inconsistency in results and accurate identification of the actual offending foods and additives.Why? Diet affects everybody, healthy and unhealthy alike, since your largest interface with the outside world is the digestive tract and it is designed to differentiate the good (nutrients) from the bad (pathogens, toxic chemicals, foreign substances)and then process each accordingly. The good stuff is supposed to be broken down into specific components far enough that it can be safely assimilated into the body through the intestinal absorption structures (see villous anatomy) and the waste leftovers disposed of competently. The bad stuff, once identified, can be attacked and neutralized, or otherwise processed within the normal gut, or if it gets into the bloodstream by other organs like the liver, and circulating structures and then disposed of. This involves evoking various protective mechanisms that are components of the immune system which are managed by a chemical management system (mediators) and linked to the nervous system (peripheral and central )which also contributes to controlling the process. Under normal circumstances and with a normal immune-neuro-gut structure interface, this whole complicated process works along fine processing your food and sorting out the wastes and foreign invaders. From time to time a person gets a bout of nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, chills, flushing, dizziness, maybe even body pains and inflammation in the upper respiratory mucosa at the same time, fevers, and all combos thereof. Which is nothing more than the immune system detecting (either quickly in the upper digestive tract or more slowly as the objectionable pathogen or chemical makes its way down into the intestines) a pathogen or potentially harmful chemical and then taking steps to isolate it and then remove it from the body. -----------That simplified explanation in place, the first thing to explain is how if you did NOT have IBS or any allergy of any type whatsoever, you would still get sick digestively or otherwise from time to time from something you ate. --------------FOODS THAT CAN BITE YOU.Some foods, especially vegetable matter, developed genetically DEFENSE MECHANISMS like animals. HUH? Animals do not want to be killed and eaten so they develop defense mechanisms. We humans went from sticks and rocks to guns and grenades. Someone attacks you, nuke 'em. Animals develop camouflage, or teeth and fangs and claws not just for eating but for defense. A lot of plants that we eat do not want to be eaten either so they have their own defenses. These include plants (fruit, veggies) that produce chemicals designed to be in sufficient concentration to make a little animal sick if they eat them, so little animals do not eat them. THIS IS BY NO MEANS A COMPRHENSIVE LIST BUT AN EXAMPLE TO BE CONSIDERED. Time is short today again...One chemical weapon that some veggies have thats real cute is a weapon that causes your immune system to Turn On itself! There are a lot of chemicals found in foods that can do this but one of the most prevalent is a group of similar chemicals called "lectins". In short, lectins are a group of chemicals which trick mast cells in the mucosa of the digestive tract into "degranulating". The mast cells contain chemicals (mediators) which either act directly on an invader or casue things to happen which bring other immune chemicals and cells into the fight to control an invader. And when the mast cell releases these chemicals it also causes local irritation and ven systemic reactions.In the lung, spasm of the muscle and swelling of the local tissues engorged with fluid beraing defensive cells, and an outpouring of secetions can happen. In your gut, smooth muscle spasm, incresed mucous production, swelling, and then systemic effects of mediators that get taken into the lymphatics and blood stream can cause the other symptoms we discussed as the body tries to expel the foul substance. Now most peoples bodies are structurally sound enough to process the results of this defense mechanism sufficiently that the person does not get clinically sick (or very little) from consuming a normal 'dose' (side dish) of these veggies that contain lectin. But a compromised and reactive gut, overreactive central and peripheral nervous sytem combined with the anxiety accompnaying the syndrome which is part of the trigger-loop can make a person with IBS get an "attack" from something another might not. When this happens it is not an allergy, becasue your immune system is functioning normally. It has been tricked into reacting by the veggies weapon, and with IBS it is more reactive than normal (the gut and the rest of the nervous system) and this can be amplified by the stress/anxiety responses. This is sometimes called "false food allergy" or "pseudoallergy".Lectins are found in high concentrations in legumes (peas, beans, lentils, peanuts, etc.)Some contain so much that if they are not prepared properly without a lot of presoaking and cooking even a healthy person can get a diarhea attack. Kidney beans, improperly prepared and put in a dish or salad, or in a slow-cooker instead of the usual high-temp cooking, have been responsible for more than one attack of "I must have an intestinal flu bug". And since it takes a while for the beans to get eaten, processed, start moving through the bowel and releasing quantities of lectin, we are talking many hours or even the next morning (if the persons transit time is slowed as it is in some gut dysfuntion) after breakfast before the dreaded explosion occurs! And lectin response is different in everybody, normal and IBS alike. That is why they are called "lectins". This is from the Latin ,means "to choose" I think (see Dr. Brostoffs Book referenced below for a better discussion). Some of the lectins interract differently with different even healthy people due to each persons slightly different makeup of the short-chain carbohydrate molecules that are attached to the bodies cells. Different lectins are specific to specific to certain carbo structures. AGGGHHH! Smart beans! It gets more complicated as some lectins trick the mast cells directly ans some lectins can bind IgE creating an "antigen" and actually can make a person have a positive skin-prick test for a pea or bean when they are not actually allergic! ----Some other foods (strawberries, shrimps, crabs, lobsters, tomatoes, fish pork, chocolate and more) contain special types of "peptides" which can also trick mast cells in your gut into losing their integrity and dumping mediators. Again, a normal person might not notice as the body processes these inappropriate mediators without clinical symptoms, or do not notice unless they eat a high concentration of them (plus ketchup and tomato sauce tend to concentrate the chemicals as they are processed). But an IBS or IBD victim might get "killed" once the stuff gets into the gut, and the farther it goes the worse it gets until they reactions finally expel it all.---- Histamine is another beauty. You know Histamine is one of the main chemical mediators released in allergy (immediate-like hay fever or the severe anaphylactic reaction to peanuts, say) or in other slower allergic reactions, or in tissue reactions which seem delayed because it takes time for the trigger to get in contact with mast cells. But some foods are high in histamine, and if consumed either in larger quantities or by a compromised gut or both can make you say "AHHHHH there it goes again!". Red wines, champagnes, even beer and white wine are beverages that can contain can contain histamine. And of course lets have a little party and put some cured sausages out (summer sausage, genoa,and other hard sausages) and some well-ripened cheese and you will get a real good soe of histamine from these. Mackeral and tuna can have histamine in them as well, especially if they are not kept very cold during the processing and canning process. These histamines come from the normal bacterial action in these foods as a byproduct. This direct-release of histamine can trigger fsater responses if the concentration is high, especially in beverages, because it can be directly absorbed through the buccal mucosa (oropharynx-mouth & throat) and bang you with a headache, dizziness, nausea, then just wait as it gets to your reactive gut..BAM ZOOM TO THE MOON.------------------------------------------That is a quick summary of NORMAL immune finctions and food, as it can make our IBS go-off even if we are NOT hypersensitive. Add to this the fact that your food "triggers" may be also from one of several types of ABNORMAL "hypersensitivity reactions", (immune mediated, non-immune mediated, or both). Not just regular Type I allergy (immediate reaction) but reactivity that is delayed either by the reaction onset is slow, or by the time it takes the reactive substance to get spread around the area of the GI mucosa so it is "seen" to react to, absorbs and circulated or all these variables, before the process and symptoms even begin and you can be talking about 12, 24, even 48 hours for full-onset. In this case there is slim chance a Standard food and symptom log is ever going to have a HIGH correlation to the onset of symptoms unless done in a very specific and structured manner, starting with a base diet that is established to be 100% "non-reactive" for that patient.It could be something or things eaten or drunk 3,4,5 meals ago...and since the consumption patterns fluctuate, as do the amounts consumed (some reactions are not seen as clinical symptoms until a reactive-threshold is passed by a certain dose of the trigger food, just like an asthmatic not going into a full-blown event until a certain dose of antigen is taken in).-------------------------------------------WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN?-------------------------------------------This is why some various (and at times stringent) dietary regimens have been developed to try to uncover more accurately these triggers. There are (2) general types of approaches as I said before. One is to go on a specific diet that is given, is very structured to remove just ALL KNOWN PSEUDOALLERGIC POTENTIAL FOODS. Then see if the symptoms start to subside over time (not a week...must be followed for NO LESS than 30 days before evaluated). Then if that worked, reinstituting foods one at a time by challenge is done. If not, one must rotate foods OUT of the base diet and allow sufficient time to pass for symptoms to subside...then the patient has a starting point.There are several specific diets to choose from that are layed out as daily menus that follow this approach in Dr. B's Book. ANOTHER way is to start with a stoneage diet regimen which removes all the pseudallergic sources AND all the PROBABLE allergic and delayed-allergic foods. Like the Rice-Lamb-Pear diet. There are several.Ditto the procedure (in general...specifics are explained in the book). Then there is the BRAT diet...each is a variation of a low-reactivity base diet.In any case of an investigatory diet, because any of the reactions may not be the FOOD but an ADDITIVE, ALL processed foods, additives, and colorings are forbidden. And nowadays organic is one step better, since there may be an antibiotic in the Chicken you bought that they gave it your immune system reacts to, not the chicken. Or some people are told or lead to beleive they are "lactose intolerant" when it is actually another milk-fraction (casein, whey). Or its not the milk at all. They get diarrhea from Ice cream but when they drink a glass of milk: nothing. Sorbates (polysorbate, sorbitol) in the ice cream may be the culprit. ------------------------------OK summary over. Dr. Brostoff's book is a good one, probably the best for patients written by the top immunologist in the field. I recommend it for people trying to get a grip on their eating patterns and how they realte to constitutional symptoms that have been linked to food and additive sensitivity.------------------------------------------A REPEAT NOTE ON ADDITIVES AND FLAVORINGS:Additive reactivity is very hard to discriminate with challenges...think of the possibilities...300 additives and 3,000 flavorings (not all are commonly used in all societies...there are usually around 100 or so to dal with and some are of the same chemical family so find one reaction, elimante the others).With IBS we should avoid additives anyway. The 3P's RULE is a good rule: Packaged + Processed = Poison. Many can irritate your colon all by themselves without any allergy due to the reactive nature of the gut. So we always try to direct patients to an additive-free diet.-----------------------Hope that helps get you thinking anyway about some of the alternative wasy to approach the diet problem. After you ahve waded through, I will be back tomorrow (gotta run soon) to answer any questions you may have.Have a DFD Matt.MNL________________________ www.leapallergy.com
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Mike,Thanks for all the info. I printed the damn thing out to read. It was a mini-novel. Lots of good info though. I have seen you mention this book before. I have read other books before that had good info but weren't really helpful. That is why i have been hesitating in buying it. I am not currently under a GI's observation. Waiting for my insurance to clear. I have had an upper GI series but that is it. I have had other tests like for anemia and thyroid because i am so tired all the time but that is it. Of course i had the lactose test, which showed i was intolerant. I was under the impression from researching on the internet and talking to people on there that being lactose intolerant included whey, caesin, lactic acid, steoryl lactylate etc. (anything from milk)? I read labels carefully. But if i get stuff out, who the hell knows what is in it even though i ask. By the way, i also had allergy testing. I found out i am allergic to peanuts but i don't know if that means all nuts or not. I think he said i wasn't allergic to eggs but i am not sure. I have been meaning to check on that. Why should i have done when i go to the GI??????I found the part about lectins and histamine very interesting. I didn't know that they could cause an immune reaction. And, me having IBS, would be more susceptible. I haven't eaten peas in a while (been eating more fresh veges). Don't eat beans or lentils really. I do eat strawberries. Should i stop those?? I have found fish to be a problem as i said. Maybe it is from what you described. I think i am wondering is that you describe how the immune reaction can cause D. But i have C. That is what i don't understand???I totally agree about the sympton log. It is virtually impossible to figure out the triggers. I feel that i am on such a restricted diet now. i don't understand how or know if i could restrict it more. Which route did you take????? And just out of curiosity, are you a doctor???????The thing with organic food is the expense. I have a fresh fields nearby but they are so expensive. I don't know how i will afford the stuff when i get a career and am on my own. Matt
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
What I had for dinner tonight.Grilled chicken breast on the bbq rubbed with a spice and lemon rub.Penee pasta with fresh chopped garlic, olive oil and freshly ground black pepper and freshly grated parmesan reggiano (sp) cheese.(this is hot not cold)mmmmmmmmmmmmmm good.
 

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I actually find that my IBS is better when I get a variety of foods. Here are a few things that work for me... of course, we are all different and these things might not work for you, but I'll put 'em here just in case they help!** Lunch meat could be a problem. Those things often have lots of preservatives, nitrates, ect. You might want to think about roasting a turkey every couple of weeks (or chicken) and keeping the meat in the freezer.** Have you kept a food journal? I had to keep one for three months before I could really nail down what worked for me and what didn't. And I don't just mean what foods bothered me... we know that's virtually impossible to tell! But by tracking my stress, exercise, foods, symptoms, and amount of foods I ate, I was able to learn a lot of helpful things. One thing that works for me is to graze pretty much all day long. I rarely ever sit down and eat an actual meal.** If you find that chicken really is all you can eat, get a meat grinder and grind up some chicken breast. Then maybe you can eat some casserole recipes or burger-tye sandwiches for variety.** Give rice another try. It is very gentle on my tummy. And they make lots of stuff out of rice now, like rice pasta.** As far as veggies go, I can eat a lot of veggies if they are the frozen kind. Frozen agrees with me much better than fresh. Maybe it's how they are processed, or maybe it has something to do with pesticides being removed better. As far as your extreme hunger goes, could you have gastritis? Or are you really not getting enough to eat? I don't know your size, but I think most men need 2000 calories or somewhere around there. I get gastritis sometimes, and there isn't enough food in the world to give me that "full" feeling during those times. I think the longest I had it was three weeks though.Good luck!
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
What is gastritis--inflammation of the stomach??What are the symptoms??I think i get enough to eat. Even when i binge on stuff, i am still hungry. I think it is probably the carbs. But then again i can eat a little and be hungry. Doesn't make sense.Matt
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi MikeI guess gastritus must be an inflammation of the stomach. Not sure what the symptoms are though. I also get great bursts of hunger and like you also when I have eaten well. Not too sure why though.What have you eaten today? How has it made you feel?roz
 
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