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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
FYISince I have suffered for thirty years of IBS I wonder what role foods play in IBS. So I asked Dr Douglas Drossman at the UNC Center for Functional GI and Motility disorders and here was his response. This is not a substitute for seeking medical advise from your doctor on any specific conditions you may have, but for educational purposes only. Dr. Drossman is a Co-director of the Center and Professor of Medicine and Psychiatry at UNC-CH. He established a program of research in functional gastrointestinal disorders at UNC more than 15 years ago and has published more than 250 books, articles, and abstracts relating to epidemiology, psychosocial and quality of life assessment, design of treatment trials, and outcomes research in gastrointestinal disorders.Here is his comments http://www.ibshealth.com/ibs_foods_2.htm
 

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"However, modern research understands IBS as a disorder of increased reactivity of the bowel, visceral hypersensitivity and dysfunction of the brain-but axis. There are subgroups being defined as well, including post-infectious IBS which can lead to IBS symptoms"Right, eric. The question for me as an IBS sufferer though is HOW things ike food, chemicals, HT, stress reduction, etc. decrease reactivity. and where in the body they produce this effect?tom
 
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Very informative, Eric. This information helps to clarify the role of foods as they may relate to IBS.(and I've known about the Sorbitol thing for years.......... SSSHHHEEEEESHHHH !!! Talk about major diarrhea and gas.......WWHHOOOeeeee..baby! By the way, it's my understanding that there is also Sorbitol in certain fruits such as peaches & cherries? Please correct me if I am wrong, any of you scientists.)Thank you, Evie
 

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The problem that a number of other physicians would point out with the nominal reference to food intolerance within Dr. Drossman's posted tutorial on the website in question is that a. It is not wholly accurate based upon how IBS is presently diagnosed andb. It is not inclusive of a large body of knowledge as regards the physiologic mechanisms of food intolerance and hypersensitivity.There are other investigators and clinicians expert in this area who would respectfully expand upon some of the rudimentary concepts quickly set forth in the paragraph in question.Let us consider the perspective of immunologists and allergists whose life work is investigating this aspect of physioology, not psychoneurogastroenterology which is a distinctly different area of expertise. First, the premise of the work of others with a different approach, perspective, and board certification credentials can be summarized by one of them...______________________________�Considerable confusion is now arising over the relationship between food intolerance and the Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS). Although the name has been hallowed by long usage, IBS is not a distinct entity but merely a collection of disorders which are characterized by abdominal symptoms but no obvious organic pathology. G.W. Thompson forecast in 1985: �the IBS is organic; that is all sufferers will eventually be found to have measurable, unique pathologic defects.� When that happy day arrives, the term �IBS� will no longer be used, and each patient will receive a more precise diagnosis. Until then it is sufficient to appreciate that food intolerance represents an important proportion of the conditions which together make up IBS.�John Hunter, MD, FCRPDirector or Gastroenterology and Consultant PhysicianAddenbrooke�s HospitalCambridge, United KingdomFrom�Food Allergy and Food Intolerance� Second Edition 2002J. Brostoff, MDS. Challacombe, MDSaunders ___________________________Indeed, the one specific statement set forth by Dr. Drossman in the post above which no one does or would disagree with, is that food intolerance is no more the causal basis of the pathogenesis of the group of conditions currently called 'IBS" than chronic stress is.It is, however, known by many and is the basis for effective treatment of many IBS patients, to be a major set of symptom-generating mechanisms among the subpopulation of diarrheic-prone people diagnosed with "IBS".There is ample evidence of this in the literature, sufficent even to result in inclusion of it in the Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy:________________________________"Page 1051 of the hard copy of the Merck Manual, and online Merck Manual at http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section1...ter148/148b.htm "Recently Food Intolerance was found to be responsible for symptoms of some patients with the IRRITABLE BOWEL SYNDROME, confirmed by double-blind food challenge.An increase in rectal prostaglandin levels was noted when a reaction occurred.Preliminary information suggests the same phenomenon may take place in patients with chronic ulcerative colitis.�___________________________In actuality the discovery of this mechanism is not all that recent....it sates back over 23 years to when it was first obserevd nad has been studied in vivo with invasive jejunal segmantal isolation studies which quantifiy inflammatory mediator release in the isolated small bowel of patients with so called "IBS" per the Rome criterai (food allergy ruled out) since about 1994. It can also be duplicated in vitro since about 1997.If one is seeking the most experienced and qualified experts on pscyhophysiology as it mat realte to IBS one should look to UNC and their work.If one is seeking expertise in fod allergy and intolerance one must begin at the top of the order, with Professors Brostoff, Challacombe and perhaps the 100 authors whoc contributed to the following new medical text on the subject...and for in vivo assays of immune response in food intolerance induce GI and systemic symptoms Prof Ulf Bengtsson has donw the most work to date in that area...____________________________Books written edited or contributed by Professor Jonathan Brostoff:FOOD ALLERGY AND INTOLERANCE, Professor Jonathan Brostoff, MD, Stephen Challacombe, MD (NEW 2002) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/070...product-details http://www.greenleaves.com/bookcat/by_brostoff_jonathan.html Asthma: The Complete Guide to Integrative Therapies- by Jonathan Brostoff, Linda GamlinThe Complete Guide to Food Allergy and Intolerance- by Jonathan Brostoff, Linda GamlinFood Allergies and Food Intolerance : The Complete Guide to Their Identification and Treatment- by Jonathan Brostoff, Linda GamlinImmunology- by Ivan Roitt(Editor), Brostoff et alThe Allergy Bible : Understanding, Diagnosing, Treating, Allergies and Intolerances- by Reader's Digest(Editor), et alAutoimmune Disease : Aetiopathogenesis, Diagnosis and Treatment : Essays in Honour of the Retirement of Professor Ivan Roitt Frs- by Peter M. Lydyard(Editor), Jonathan Brostoff(Editor)Case Studies in Immunology- by Jonathan Brostoff, et alCase Studies in Immunology: Companion to Immunology, Fifth Edition- by Jonathan Brostoff, et alClinical Immunology- by Jonathan BrostoffClinical Immunology : An Illustrated Outline- by Jonathan Brostoff, David K. MaleImmunology- by Ivan M. Roitt, et alImmunology : Interactive 2.1- by David Male, et alThe Complete Guide to Hay Fever : The Latest Research & Techniques for Coping With Hayfever- by Jonathan BrostoffFood Allergy and Intolerance- by Jonathan Brostoff, Stephen J. ChallacombeImmunology- by Ivan Maurice Roitt, et alInmunologia Clinica- by Jonathan Brostoff, et alIntroducing Immunology- by Norman A. Staines, et al__________________________Also, a good tutorial on the mechanisms (multiple) of food reactivity and how they marshall IBS symptoms in the food intlerant patients would be this one:Alimentary Pharmacology and Therapeutics Vol. 15 Issue 4 Page 439 April 2001 Food hypersensitivity and irritable bowel syndrome S. Zar, D. Kumar, M. J. Benson http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/u...36.2001.00951.x To gain some eprspective into the effectiveness of isolating and prophylactically treating food and chemical intolerance in IBS and related conditions these discussions would also be useful: http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000407#000002 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...=4;t=000286;p=4 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...0286;p=3#000106 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000364 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...=4&DaysPrune=30 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000286 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000285 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000331#000001 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000302 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000287 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000364 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...f=5&t=000313&p= http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...0293;p=2#000069 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000276 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=5;t=000073 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...f=5&t=000356&p= http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000320#000016 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000383#000010 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...f=5&t=000126&p= http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...c;f=17;t=000033 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000363#000002 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=028290#000001 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000335#000009 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...f=1&t=028290&p= http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000353 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000389 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000427#000006 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000421 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000427#000015 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=030178#000003 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000476 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=029840#000027 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000478 (NEW testimonial by Bobby�good) http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000488 (OHNOMETOO One year anniversary) http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000478 In general this is like any other area of medicine...everyuone posesses some information in any given area, and the most specialzied information will be found among those whsoe specialty area is devoted to a particular area. There are many centers of excellence on the subject of food and chemical intolerance mechansism and therapy which go beyond the common boundaries simply due to the fact that it is their focus, so it is usually helpful to seek out specialized information at the acknoweldged source of the specialty.I do beleive that the 2002 edition of Brostoff 7 Challacome remains the ONLY medical textbook yet published on the subject of this particular thread.The more patient-specific one can make the assessment of any patients food and chemical tolerance, or lack thereof, the greater the degree of remission one can achieve. This is not easily done in most centers, as most centers do not make use of the most current methodologies in this specialized area, or do not approach the issue from the perspective that a specialist in that area would.But a study of broader information would make it apparent that there is broader information available upon which to base treatment.
MNL
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Mike, why don't you come to the next UNC chat and tell them this, about how they don't know about the role of foods in IBS??
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
FYIThis is how IBS symptoms can be triggered with no pathogen through the IMMUNE SYSTEM and there is a ton more research on this, since this was written.Its also why some people have a problem with d in the mornings. When cortisol levels are at there highest in the body.The Fight or Flight in Irritable Bowel SyndromeOveractivation Linked To Predominance of Diarrhea SymptomsAn intense, powerful "fight-or-flight" response comes in handy when you're running away from a hungry tiger, but it could be the source of misery for people with certain digestive disorders.The chronic gastrointestinal distress of Irritable Bowel Syndrome IBS has been linked to "miscommunication" between the gut and the brain. Although it's still unclear just exactly how a glitch in gut-brain interaction sparks specific symptoms, a recent study has uncovered one important potential mechanism in a subgroup of patients.In patients with IBS who regularly experience diarrhea, pain, and other symptoms soon after eating, an "overdominant" sympathetic nervous system - signaled in part by the heightened release of the stress hormone cortisol after eating - may play a key role in triggering their symptoms. Researchers evaluated a group of 24 patients with IBS and a group of healthy controls, measuring their salivary cortisol levels, their heart rates, and their heart rate variabilities at different times of the day.Compared to the controls and to IBS patients with constipation, IBS patients with chronic food-induced diarrhea "demonstrated a significant increase in cortisol" soon after eating - with levels nearly doubling. This subset of patients also showed a more dominant sympathetic nervous system response, as evidenced by their heart rate variability ratios.The sympathetic nervous system tends to mobilize the body's stimulatory "fight-or-flight" response. Normally it's kept in check by the dampening effects of the parasympathetic nervous system. In patients with IBS with diarrhea, however, this muting response mediated by the vagus nerve appears weaker - a condition called "vagal withdrawal." "Notably, this vagal withdrawal was significantly associated with patients' reports of gastrointestinal symptoms," the researchers pointed out. These included bloating, abdominal pain, indigestion, and heartburn.A heightened, stimulatory stress response, characterized by overactivation of both the HPA-axis and sympathetic nervous system, may be triggered by "abnormal ascending feedback from the gut," the researchers speculated.Source: Elsenbruch S, Orr WC. Diarrhea- and constipation-predominant IBS patients differ in postprandial autonomic and cortisol responses Am J Gastroenterol 2001;96 2:460-466.
 
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Eric, I can really identify with the Cortisol. Some of what you post is so true to the point and affects me so directly at times that it's almost scarey !!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU !!!!!Hey Mike..... it might be lots of fun as well as informative if you were to join us at one of the UNC chats.... C'mon in.Evie
 

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LOL...an intriguing possibility set forth in the form of an intentionally doomed challenge: _____________________________________"Mike, why don't you come to the next UNC chat and tell them this, about how they don't know about the role of foods in IBS??" ____________________________________Sure, and you go on line with Brostoff and a bunch of sick people who trust his views and convince him that his books and his lifes work are all BS.That is the same type of challenge as you have set forth is it not?You crack me up, first how you misquote and morph what I say constantly, and second the naivete you exhibit as regards the profession of clinical and investigative medicine never ceases to amaze me."...tell them how they don't know the role of foods in IBS..."
Rarely have I seen anyone as pugnacious as you! Surer thats exactly what I said...
HOWEVER you do set forth the basis for some more appropriate activity along those lines which may be possible...but first that being said Perhaps a reality check is in order first...and then perhaps there is a more appropriate matchup we can arrange for such a discussion. You know, doctor to doctor.If you have a smoking engine, the guy certified in fuel systems will investigate and interpret the findings in the context of the hierarchy of possible causes of smoking which originate within the fuel system.However the very same engine, viewed from the perspective of the EEC IV guy will be out through a diagnostic hierarchy consistent with what he knows will elicit smoking from the perspective of the EEC and ignition systems.Sometimes the final causal basis will prove-out to be fuel system dysfunction. Sometimes it will be within the EEC or ignition subsystems.Sometimes there will be a combination of malfunctions, which could have originated in either system and then produced secondary malfunction in the other co-dependent system. And it could be either system which is primary and the other secondary.Clinical medicine and medical research are little different. Hierarchies and probabilities and postulates and interpretations are always colored by the perspective and specific area of specialization and expertise of the physician(s) involved.A good example was observed at a very tender age early in my career as an R.R.T. I would go on grand rounds with the pulomonary specialists at the Cleveland Clinic when I worked there every Friday morning. Oftentimes a case would be presented of, say, an asthmatic. The pulmonologist would present the data, provide and interpretation and at times make reference to the fact the patient was also seen by an allergist. The allergist findings would be quoted, for example, especially if the recommendations or interpretations or treatment regimen recommended were in contrast to that of the pulomonologist in attendance. This discussion was invariably punctuated by, at a minimum, shaking heads (tsk tsk tsk) and �knowing looks and bobbing heads� all around, to as much as guffaws and even squeals of delight at the clearly ill-informed recommendations.Then of course you might have a ventilator case who had been visited, say, last night by the thoracic surgeon who had performed an intervention and some orders had been left or an interpretation of something was entered in the chart, and the same sequence of events would occur.It was also of interest that, if one were clever enough to carefully read what was scheduled to be presented at each specialties rounds in any given week, that one could see some cases which were being presented twice�once by SPECIALISTS A and at another grand rounds from SPECIALISTS B. if you were really lucky they were not at the same time so you could go to both�and observe the same cases but viewed through the eyes of the OTHER specialists (like �opposing counsel� I guess) and observe the same behaviors.The years working with various research and product development projects were no different when it cam to the halls of medical academe�.THE difference, though, was that many times (most times) the caregivers, while taking some pleasure in their obvious expertise which was clearly lacking in their esteemed colleagues not of the same board certification, was usually set aside when the good of the patient was at stake. Usually. Not always. Why? Ethics and professionalism and a recognition that no one, not even themselves, holds an exclusive on all that is correct and all that is wise nor exclusive understanding of the single proper treatment protocol for any given patient. Most recognize in the end that their information if integrated with that of another specialist combined could lead to better care and outcomes many times than either could achieve alone.However, due to the nature of these professional paradigms, rarely does one see such things as Pulmonologist A engage Allergist B in a debate before any audience other than their peers unless they are of a certain ilk which is inlcined to debate in front of patients.Anyone who is a healthcare professional of any kind who cannot accept the validity of, and adopt, this objective and respectful behavior of differences over data rather than personalities not only does dissservice to the sick but violates the oath that all caregivers are ethically obligated to abide by. If one aspires to be, or acclaims themselves to be, a caregiver, then one is morally obligated to adapt as fully as all caregivers with specialty knowledge are obligated to adapt.It is far easier to be on the side, Armchair Quarterbacking, than actually being in the game. If you are in the game you have to follow the rules whereas the Armchair Quartberback can make up his own rules, or follow none at all, when holding forth one whatever subject he or she chooses to act upon in this capacity.So, first, your premise is flawed in that you misstate again what I have said, and second that I should appear and attempt to pursuade a group of psychogastroenterologists to alter their perspective, which would also suggest they alter their business mission. This is not mission for a therapist who is a student of the subject any more than it wpuld be a mission for you to try to pursuade Professor Brostoff or Bengtsson or Stefanini that "food intolerance is a myth". It is as doomed from the start as was the bay of Pigs invasion.The likelihood of any physician who already has assumed the position we have seen set forth being open to other information is reflected in whether such physicians have considered reading the book on the subject first. The proposition is is not one that will be well received from a lowly lay person no matter how well read he might be.However, what is possible, what might be a discussion which would be better received, would be a disscussion with another physician who is himself the source of much of the information available about food and chemcial intolerance rathe than a student of the subject.I will extend your invitation first to Professor Brostoff and see if he, or one of his associates with similar credentials, would be able to schedule some time to participate in such a chat in spite of the innate juxtaposition of their specialities and perspectives. If he is unavailable there are some other physicians, including gastroenterologists, who might be willing to discuss their experiences with food intolerance and hypersensitivity and their IBS patients and how it does go beyond that which is commonly beleived to be the limit of contribution.When are these chats scheduled? (what days of the week at what times and at what URL) so that I may see if I can obtain one or more physicians experienced in thee matters to participate. This ensures that the discussions are more likely to be on level ground.Let me know an I will see what I can do!
MNL
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Things that make you go hmmmmmmm."Jonathan Brostoff, Professor of Allergy and Environmental Health at King's College and co-author of The Complete Guide to Food Allergy and Intolerance (Bloomsbury), is concerned that some people may be getting tested for food intolerance when they should be going to their GP. "Problems arise if the two per cent of people whose IBS symptoms turn out to be cancer don't see a doctor," he says.So is there no way of knowing if you are intolerant to a food? According to Professor Brostoff there is only one way to measure what we know as food intolerance: the elimination diet. Dr Hunter agrees. "I get a 60-per-cent success rate by simply putting patients on a basic diet for two weeks.For the first week millions of bacteria die in the bowel, releasing toxins, so the patient may feel very rough headaches, vomiting and pain. Normally that clears after three or four days, and they can start introducing foods and see which, if any, affects them. It may seem easier to pay somebody to do say a blood test, but there really are no short cuts." http://www.nickmorgan.net/html/food_tests.html Get anybody you can Mike the URL is on the front page of the UNC website.
 

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"Get anybody you can Mike the URL is on the front page of the UNC website."I thought you were issuing an invitiation...you cannot provide me where you are inviting me/us to, I have to go figure it out?
OK we will try to go find what you are talking about but we will need to be structured a bit more...I'll come back to that in a momentAlso, while the other information is a bit dated based upon developments over the alst (2) years (which of course canot be used to go back and change what wa sonce published) these declaration are reflective of the historical approach to food intolerance...at least the rudiments.To get it all you have to read, like, some whole books and their bibliographiesThese whole books help as a place to start, then one needs to ADD the material that was not discovered prior to the books going into editing (material from invasisve jejunla isolation investigations in Sweden, for exmaple, are not assessed as theyw ere not available at the time of composition of the texts). However the breadth and scope of works is quit a bit broader than a sound-bite..[Note that Prof. B. is the Chief Consulting Immunologist on the project to DEVELOP an assay, which has now been done, to DO the job that no one has been able to do...so again one is posting outdated info)...�FOOD ALLERGIES AND FOOD INTOLERANCE: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO THEIR IDENTIFICTION AND TREATMENT�, Professor Jonathan Brostoff , M.D.. Allergy, Immunology and Environmental Medicine, Kings� College, London http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...6487508-3420903 FOOD ALLERGY AND INTOLERANCE, Professor Jonathan Brostoff, MD, Stephen Challacombe, MD (NEW 2002) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/070...product-details We also need to expand the discussion of elimination diet a bit to bring it more current as well. Indeed prior to the recent invention of technology which allows for the assay of cell emdiated reactions, since food (immunocyte mediated) food intolerance (not allergy) does not involve specific immunoglobulin to foods, (excet in some cases IgG subclasses may be implicated but not IgE that's allergy) there wer classically and remain (2) methodologies of food intoelrance isolation:1. oligoantigenic diet ("few foods" diets like rice-lamb-pears) follwoed by serial oral challenge or2. various formats of elimination dietiang, each one witha different base diet, designed to achieve symptom stabilization, followed by serial oral challenge.Oligoantigenic diets (as opposed to elimination diet) are most effective. Remission rates over 85% based solely on this approach have been reported.The downside is that oligoantigenic diets cannot be sustained as they are nutrionally unsound so they must be followed by extenisve careful serial oral challenges to maintain remission.Also, in spite of an unwilligness to provide the details of the place you have invited me to, supposedly to create some form of "confrontation", we will approach this objectively as a posisble educational opportunity. I will be contacting Professor Brostoff along with several other related authorities and dieticians who work in this area, to see if we can develop a panel of professional persons from this perspective who could make themselves available if you wish to talk "in chat" with Dr. Drossman and attendees as you have suggested...the trick is finding a date whereby the key people can be available to attend together as each one brings something to the party which can be useful.Also I am not sure what posting something from some journalists site which has NO content on technology or methods relative to anyone who is present in THIS community, rather from from other entities who I do not beleive are not ever present here, has to do with anything.
Kinesiology? York Labs in England? The old ALCAT test being used by some lab in England (there is a lab in the US too using this technology from the early 1980's)? VEGA Machines? HAIR Analysis?I personally have never seen any of those companies active here in this community...and rarely heard of people here even being involved in these methodologies as patients...so I am not sure what the intent is...I guess its like suggesting that because the Skoda (made in Czechslovakia) is a bad car, all need beware that cars are bad?
OK everyone is duly warned.That has nothing to do with the Disease Management Program or in vitro assay technologies thast have been reported on with success by people here and elsewhere, including 300 insuranc eplans that pay for it...So I guess the reader is supposed to connect this to that in some way.Well sure, anybody can "play" like that. What, you want to post things that people go "HMMMM" then OK here is another one to make ya go HMMMM: http://www.skepdic.com/hypnosis.html If one wants to "play" via some ill conceived "guilt by association" approach, then OK the game is afoot.
In the meantime, for an alternative perspective grounded in reality, here is a dose of reality which is actually related to what our doctors and therapists do, not what other people do: ______________________posted 07-08-2002 10:42 AM I got my LEAP blood test results back two weeks ago, and have been totally "on" the diet as of just last week. The result has been very dramatic. I have had pain predominant IBS for 25 years, but up until about 5 years ago I could manage it with food, sleep, valium. Five years ago I started on a downward spiral, with bad cramping in the afternoons followed by urgent BM's. And more pain. I have been at the end of my rope for a few years now. I really don't know what to say about this...the absence of pain...????....does anyone understand that you could feel intense pleasure from just feeling pain-free, relaxed and calm within your own body?? I consider myself a real "foodie" -- love the exotic stuff--- thai, indian, italian --- but I am not even tempted by any foods right now, I am so at peace with JUST FEELING LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING. That's how I feel for now. I am scared that something will happen as has happened so many times before with remedies for IBS-- my body will find a way around it and deliver the pain anyway.......I hope not. I think it's important to realize that IBS is not just one thing...I have probably three things that contribute to stomach problems....nerves, general disposition, and now I know about the food sensitivities. Right now I am just thankful, so thankful for each day without pain. My main reactive foods were black pepper, tyramine (bananas) and wheat, all of which I ate every day. http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...0286;p=3#000106 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000364 I'm a relative newbie to the LEAP program having had my blood drawn on April 15th (tax day) of this year. That makes it about 3 months on the program so far. Let me say that I didn't expect a great improvement ... some improvement but nothing major. I had expected to feel a bit better and hoped to reduce the medications I was taking. I had figured that if my symptoms were reduced about 20% to 30% I would be satisfied. However, I had no idea how much of a change the program would provide.The results have been nothing short of amazing! It is the best $700 (I think that's about what it cost) I've ever spent. After suffering about 30 years with IBS-D I've finally found major relief. My drug intake is reduced about 97% (Imodium and Bentyl). I rarely get 'digestive disturbances' any more and when they happen I can easily pinpoint the foods that caused it. I don't get the squirts for a week at a time anymore. Now that I know exactly what foods to avoid life is much more pleasant. I don't live from toilet-to-toilet like I used to. I'm still not like a 'normal' non-IBS-D person, but I'm doing so much better than I had been doing for many years. My recommendation: If you've got IBS-D go to the LEAP website and fill out the qualification form to see if they feel you will benefit from their program. If so, do it! It doesn't matter if insurance will pay for it or not, just find a way to get the test done. Your health and quality-of-life are worth much more than the cost of this test. Bob http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000427#000015 posted 09-01-2002 10:44 AM you couldn't be more right, Mike! I'm now on day five! Another normal BM (who hooooo) and I feel GREAT! I have NO pain (not any, not even a little) This is the best I have felt in YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![ 09-01-2002, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: yodiss ]---------------------Suzinand so forth.... http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000407#000002 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...=4;t=000286;p=4 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...0286;p=3#000106 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000364 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...=4&DaysPrune=30 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000286 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000285 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000331#000001 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000302 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000287 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000364 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...f=5&t=000313&p= http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...0293;p=2#000069 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000276 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=5;t=000073 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...f=5&t=000356&p= http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000320#000016 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000383#000010 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...f=5&t=000126&p= http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...c;f=17;t=000033 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000363#000002 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=028290#000001 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000335#000009 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...f=1&t=028290&p= http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000353 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000389 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000427#000006 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000421 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=000427#000015 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=030178#000003 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000476 http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...t=029840#000027 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000478 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000488 http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000478 Anyway...time runs short. Enjoy a DFD!
MNL
 

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TOMI got a note from Professor B wanting to know if the idea was going to be a "live" (face-to-face time) discussion on the subject he thouight that would be interesting to him...he has to get back to me on "key pounding"...and if and when this would be something he feels could be done if that is what is involved. As you may know from watching the degree of verbosity sometiems involved it can be tedious to explain any given mechanism of immune repsonse to provocation...inc aht people could fall asleep waiting for an accurate detailed repsonse or explnation to be drafted....as we know "sound bites" can be misconstrued as to the meaning.But I do have some preliminary expressions of interest from among physicians and dieticians who work in "this area" to maybe empanel themselves to do something. We shall see how it goes.Too bad we don't have a TV show I know he'd be in the studio already
MNL
 

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This thread petty much sums up my frustration with eric and MNL. They post such long and detailed messages that anyone else who posts here gets nowhere unless they post just as long.The post you make do not have to be doctorial dissertations every time. You have posted most of this information before and could certainly just sent a link to that, instead of the incessant repeating you both do.Now, I am sure to be bashed for making this comment, but 90% of this BB has helped my with my IBS-D and coping issues and I appreciate that very much. After 3 years on this board, I just had to post my frustrations as well.Thank you for the opportunity.
 

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Oh yeah Donna and one minor detail...the doctor or doctors in question is/are in...LONDON...so that apears to make the chat run from about 12:45 am to after 3:00 am!
I am sure this will be be a thrill to contemplate to do that in the middle of the night...a small detail that did not occur to me until someone posted the chat times on another place this all had to be made to appear in duplicate and in parallel.NOw THAT makes ya go Hmmmmmmmm....may ahve to try to arrange another such forum or timing for the open xchange of ideas between such centers...MNL
 

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Danaps, good to hear from you.MNL, The UNC things are presentations but they do open them up for discussion. You might check with them to see if food is on their list of upcoming talks. Their presentations so far have been done by faculty from UNC as in some ways its an advertisement for them but they are open to new ideas.tom
 
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