[riddick]

Hi all.I saw a surgeon today and he has said my gallbladder should be removed. Was an interseting chat.He sees around 300 patients a year with my symptoms and he says 80% have total relief after removal.He also said ultrasound doesn't pick up inflammation or sludge in the gallbladder.He agreed with me that it could well be my gallbladder to blame. The only way to know is to remove it.It's a day surgery procedure and 3 weeks off work afterwards.I also saw the psychiatrist today. She thinks i probably won't benefit from CBT as i'm not displaying any signs of anxiety at the moment. . . . .i wonder why?18 months it's taken me to reach this point, countless tests, 3 hospital admissions and a second opinion that was totally at odds with the first. I have a medical background and i'm assertive by nature. I do wonder what the outcome would have been for Mr Joe Public.

 

[IBD/IBS Author]

Surgeons like to remove things 'cause that's what they do. Do you have a specific reason for removing your gall bladder or is it just speculation that this might improve your symptoms? I ask because my mom and a good friend both had their gall bladders removed, were both told it would most likely remedy their problems, and now both have just as many, if not more problems than before the removal. So, just go into this with your eye's wide open and ask a lot of questions before you have something removed that can't be put back. And know it may not be a cure-all.

 

[BQ]

Elizabeth, just so ya know, Riddick has for awhile been discussing this as a possibility for his symptoms. A hidascan test revealed his GB functioning at only 35%. So it was something he wanted to explore further.. he got a few opinions and was eventually referred to a surgeon.Riddick .... hate to rain on your parade.. but..Elizabeth brings up some very good points though. So while it is always good to have hope... make sure that hope is balanced with reality. You could very well still have all the exact same symptoms after surgery. I speak from personal experience.I had IBS D well before (like 11 years before) my GB went bad & was removed. And I still have IBS D afterwards. The reason mine went bad had nothing to do with my IBS. So indeed it isn't a cure all. And in fact I was real bad immediately after the surgery. You see I got a C-Diff infection from the antibiotics I was given postperatively. (My GB had gone gangrenous as all my symtpoms of a bad GB were thought to be my IBS..... so by the time it was discovered to be a problem.. it was b-a-d and actually scored a Class 1 on a path report.. it was dead tissue, hence why I needed strong antibiotics to avoid sepsis.)So while I am happy you were able to see the surgeon... please remember what he said.. "The only way to find out is to remove it." And what he didn't say but what should be understood, "And your GB may not be to blame" for your symptoms.All the best

 

[Kathleen M.]

35% may sound bad, until you compare it to normal results of healthy people.Normal ejection fraction is from 35-75% so 35% is not considered a severely abnormal result. 35% is usually considered a normal result.With a result in the normal range it is hard to be certain it is the sole cause of all the problems. I just hope things work out all right after the surgery.At least I read it as the result was 35% ejection fraction not 35% of the lowest normal value. The gall bladder isn't supposed to dump all the bile it has in storage, but it does dump a certain percentage based on the signals it gets.

 

[mouth]

Mine dumps the bile all in 1 go as I said b 4 and waiting 2 c my consultant again GP has put me on Lyrica 4 the pain when eating only just started them will c how it goes let u know what he says when i c him. Pleased u have a result now Riddick hope ur problems will b solved now and Good Luck

 

[riddick]

Thanks for your concerns. I have given this some considerable thought. I do realise it may not cure my symptoms. But there is a chance it may. When i am symptomatic my life is complete hell (and i don't say that lightly).I can not continue as i am knowing there is a chance that this may help. It would not seem logical to do so. I have to be brave and go through with it. If it works brilliant. If it doesn't then it doesn't. But i'll never know unless i go through with it.It is a gamble, no doubt about that. But it is one i'm prepared to take.He also said he would not have offered me the option if he didn't think it may work. Going on my symptoms and HIDA result he said i am a definate candidate for surgery. He did say it may not work and i fully understand that and the ramifications of post surgical symptoms.Believe me if you felt how i did and someone offered you the chance of relief you'd take it with open arms. There are no other tests for my GI system.....it is completely normal.He also said too many dr's rely on test results and don't go by clinical symptoms, which is a mistake.

 

[mouth]

Totally understand where ur coming from Riddick i have symptoms all day if he offers 2 take mine out b cause its over functioning then i will go with what he says cant live like this. Had 2 give up work due 2 this problem want a life back not an existence where i worry about everything i eat will it upset my stomach and give me the big C as i said the best of luck and sincerely hope it cures ur problem

 

[BQ]

Well I sincerely hope your GB removal does clear up all of your symptoms Riddick. And yes, if there is a chance it might.. who wouldn't want to take it? All the very best

 

[Kathleen M.]

I'm always a little worried when enough of the "well it couldn't hurt if we take it out" end up with the same symptoms afterward. After all Sphincter of Oddi Syndrome is basically a "woops that didn't change anything now we took your gall bladder out" disorder.Unfortunately since you don't need the gall bladder to survive it may get removed when it shouldn't.Hopefully things will be better. Be prepared for the diarrhea to be a lot worse and I'd get some low fat cookbook and do some low fat shopping before the surgery and see if the surgeon or other doctor will prescribe Questran or other bile binding agents if a low fat diet won't control the bile release enough (and Calcium Carbonate isn't enough).And like I said some percentage of people get diagnosed with "Sphincter of Oddi Syndrome" because taking out the gall bladder even when the symptoms show it could stand to come out when they have the exact same pain after surgery.Hoping for the best, but be prepared that for too many people it doesn't change anything.

 

[mouth]

That was 1 of the diagnoses on my notes Sphincter of the Oddi Dysfunction after looking it up dont fancy that op at all as u can end up with pancreatitis after, thats y i would like 2 find a way of controlling it if possible

 

[riddick]

He really doesn't think its SODI dysfunction. The HIDA scan showed all my bile ducts and associated bits and bats were fine. Apparently when this is the case there is statistically less than a 3% chance of it being SODI dysfunction.Most people are fine after gallbladder surgery and don't need binding agents. Obviously some do. I think the nature of internet forums means that the people who use them have problems. So it appears everybody has problems! I spoke to him about binding agents. He said it is a tiny minority of people who need these. My own mother had her GB at 42yrs of age and ate a completely normal diet afterwards..she has no restrictions at all.I will just have to deal with things if they occur. I can't afford not to take this surgery as my quality of life is rubbish. This could be my saviour (or not i realise that).

 

[TanaG]

Good topic...I just posted in here. I have been told...today! that...after all happening to me, in fact, it is my gallbladder that is not working. I was told something like: "oh my and you just took antibiotics? with THIS gallbladder? hahaha ! ...You shouldn't even touch pills, you cannot process them!"More over, I don't even have a chance for it to ever work properly because of the gallbladder shape and blah blahBut before considering surgery...which, by the way, never crossed my mind, please do look into some of the remedies traditional and even homeopathic medicine has to offer!

Surgery should always be the last last possibility...the last choice of them all, because it is the most invasive procedure for your body! I agree most people are just fine after removing the gallbladder. I have a few in my family who did it and they say it's the best thing they ever did and they're feeling great. Of course, there are always risks. Please ask your doctor what exactly are the risks for you and exactly what should you expect! good luck!

 

[riddick]

Hi thereI've already asked. Main risk is damage to bile duct. My surgeon has done over 3000 cholecystectomies and never damaged a bile duct so far. Other risk are risks associated with general anaesthetic.Post op risks are infection. and of course post-op diarrhoea!He's been straight up with me and explained everything.

 

[IBD/IBS Author]

Just wanted to make sure you were well informed and aware of possible negative outcomes. And, it seems you are aware and willing. So, that's that. I am aware of your background, have followed you for some time. But, my mom is actually much worse post-gall bladder removal than before and has landed in the hospital 3 times from debilitating pain, etc. as a result of not having a gall bladder. I'm not anti-surgery if it's necessary. I just believe that once it (anything) is removed it can't be reversed.

 

[Jackmat]

I've met a few people for whom the GB removal made no difference. If you go ahead with it, I hope it makes a difference for you.I can only assume you've tried everything else, given that the GB option is irreversible.If GB peformance is measured DURING an IBS flareup, I'm wondering if that affects the score (GB under load and more sluggish?)All the best Riddick,Jackmat

 

[TanaG]

hi riddick, i understand what you're saying but my question would be this: isn't some gallbladder better than no gallbladder? Because our problems are caused by the gallbladder not functioning at its full capacity right? I am no doctor, but it makes sense to me, for example if you have really big stones there that cannot be removed in any other way and you are in danger of them blocking the bile canal and putting you in a life threatening situation then of course the gallbladder has to be removed, even with the risk of having D and associated problems for the rest of your life. But if your gallbladder is just a lazy one and it doesn't work properly and let's say it gives you 20% of something of what you need, it's still better than 0% that you'd have if you removed it right? I know they say that in time your liver would take over the bladder functions but will it give you a 100% function? ....or still you'd be stuck in the same situation where you have 0 to 20% gallbladder function and the associated problems?

 

[Kathleen M.]

I think the problem is you need the gall bladder able to eject the right amount of bile for the food (from 35%-75% of it's volume).When the gall bladder is removed bile is released as it is formed. So it isn't once your gall bladder is gone you never have anymore bile (and that would mean you never digest your food right ever again for your entire life). You release all the bile you make as you make it.If your gall bladder releases too much you may not recycle enough of it and that can lead to painful burning diarrhea.If your gall bladder can't release bile enough you can't digest your food and it can cause pain when it is blocked (and it can eventually get infected and kill you if it is gets blocked up the wrong way too long). You are generally better off with unregulated release of bile (no gall bladder) than not releasing enough so that is why they tend to remove if it can't release at least 35% of it's volume in the tests.That some people make more than they can recycle is why they don't just take it out from everyone, and there is always some risk from any surgery with being put under, infection, etc. So as long as it is OK they leave it alone. However, since you don't really need it and full bile release is better than not nearly enough it often gets taken out just to see if it is causing problems.

 

[mouth]

So whats the solution when it dumps it all in 1 go as mine does if any 1 has any ideas would like 2 hear them, i suffer from C not D really am looking 4 any suggestions or solutions to stop the constant pain whenever i eat.

 

[Kathleen M.]

Usually too much bile causes diarrhea and the only things that sop up bile are also constipating. You must have a real good bile recycler if you can dump the full load every meal and still be constipated. Did they test this? Or do you just based it on ost meal symptoms?Pain after meals can be from IBS, not just from gall bladder issues. The colon becomes active and stool that it can't move or gas that has accumulated can cause from mild cramps to extreme severe pain after the meal.There might be some sphincter of oddi issues, but they usually only look at those after gall bladder removal, but sometimes they can do things to open up the sphincter, but not sure how that fits with dumps too much bile...Have you tried antispasmodics or peppermint 20-30 minutes before a meal? Although most antispasmodics are also constipating.Have you tried small frequent low fat meals?

 

[BQ]

Mouth what have your specialists said would be an appropriate course of treatment? So you are having C because of a hyper GB? Wow.. that IS rare. But maybe you are dumping all the bile at one time on one meal and everything else you eat doesn't get enough bile?? I don't know.. but keep us posted and let us know what your Dr said.