Irritable Bowel Syndrome and Digestive Health Support Forum banner
1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
I took notice at this:
quote:In his 40-year career, Levitt has seen only two patients (both men) who farted upward of 140 times a day, but these extraordinary cases were lactose-intolerant individuals and, once dairy products were cut out of their diets, they returned to the normal range of acceptability. "These two were the biggest farters of my career.
Lactose used to be a recipe for farting excessively. It was only until I took broad spectrum antibiotics that my lactose intolerance went away.skinny
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,398 Posts
quote:these extraordinary cases were lactose-intolerant individuals and, once dairy products were cut out of their diets, they returned to the normal range of acceptability.
Here's how the article was written
Levitt published these cases, so we know that lactose had nothing do with their problems.
quote:Lactose used to be a recipe for farting excessively.
This statement is also untrue.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,831 Posts
Well flux if you read this paperFollow-up of a flatulent patient. Author:Levitt MD, Volume:24 Issue:8, Page:652-4 Year:1979 Source
ig Dis Sci, ID:467218 it says that a diet low in lactose and wheat helped to get gas under control. So presumably lactose had quite a bit to do with it. I don't remember if he was a lactose malabsorber though.You are absolutely right about the second one though. He had gas from the atmosphere. Can't argue with you there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
flux:
quote:Levitt published these cases, so we know that lactose had nothing do with their problems.
False. You are wrong about lactose intolerance and so was Levitt. Levitt changed his mind after conducting a study with Slimfast. He found subjects had flatulence after consuming 14 grams of lactose in a Slimfast meal.
quote:``I was a little surprised by this finding,'' Levitt told Reuters Health. ``I spent a lot of time knocking lactose intolerance as a problem, because for those who drank milk with their meals the message has always been that it is not much of a problem. But in this case there seems to be a threshold, when taking in lactose without additional food.''Reference:Weight-Loss Drinks Increase Gas in Milk-Intolerant http://preventdisease.com/news/articles/we...rinks_gas.shtml
This was already covered in an earlier thread:News about Lactose Intolerance http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...t=035026#000001 skinny
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,398 Posts
quote:it says that a diet low in lactose and wheat helped to get gas under control. So presumably lactose had quite a bit to do with it.
Lactose was many of numerous dietary changes. Lactose malabsorption had nothing to do with the cause of his problem.
quote:False. You are wrong about lactose intolerance and so was Levitt. Levitt changed his mind after conducting a study with Slimfast..
quote:``I was a little surprised by this finding,'' Levitt told Reuters Health. ``I spent a lot of time knocking lactose intolerance as a problem, because for those who drank milk with their meals the message has always been that it is not much of a problem.
Are journalists on some sort of mission to fabricate quotes for this guy? The quote even sounds hokey to me, like a high school student was saying it.(I emailed Reuters Health about it.)
quote: He found subjects had flatulence after consuming 14 grams of lactose in a Slimfast meal
This finding is not surprising to me and I highly doubt it was to Levitt it either.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,831 Posts
quote:Lactose was many of numerous dietary changes. Lactose malabsorption had nothing to do with the cause of his problem.
OK!
quote: quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He found subjects had flatulence after consuming 14 grams of lactose in a Slimfast meal--------------------------------------------------------------------------------This finding is not surprising to me and I highly doubt it was to Levitt it either.
flux, the fact that the fart frequency doubled was surprising
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,398 Posts
quote:the fact that the fart frequency doubled was surprising
What is surprising is that Reuters Health would jumble, even fabricate quotes!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
quote:
quote:it says that a diet low in lactose and wheat helped to get gas under control. So presumably lactose had quite a bit to do with it.
flux:Lactose was many of numerous dietary changes. Lactose malabsorption had nothing to do with the cause of his problem.
False. Lactose as much as a cup of milk (~12 grams) can cause flatulence.
quote:Are journalists on some sort of mission to fabricate quotes for this guy? The quote even sounds hokey to me, like a high school student was saying it.
Logical fallacy: Ad hominem http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
quote:
quote:He found subjects had flatulence after consuming 14 grams of lactose in a Slimfast meal
flux:This finding is not surprising to me and I highly doubt it was to Levitt it either.
It was Levitt.
quote:The high and low lactose preparations contained 13.7 g and <0.01 g lactose per serving, respectively.[...]Compared to the low-lactose product, total flatus frequency, expressed as passages per day, increased significantly from 10,6[+ or -]13 to 30[+ or -]14 (P=.01l) with the reconstituted powder product, and large and small flatus passages were both significantly increased. The subjective impression of rectal gas volume also significantly increased from a severity score of 0.7[+ or -]1.3 to 2.5[+ or -]1.6 (P=.025).Reference:Nutritional supplements used in weight-reduction programs increase intestinal gas in persons who malabsorb lactose.Journal of the American Dietetic Association, Dec, 2001, by Fabrizis L. Suarez, Luisa M. Zumarraga, Julie K. Furne, Michael D. Levitt http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0822/1...2/article.jhtml
skinny
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,831 Posts
quote: False. Lactose as much as a cup of milk (~12 grams) can cause flatulence.
flux is claiming the fact that the low lactose diet helped that patient does not mean that the patient suffered from lactose malabsorption i.e he did not have any lactase deficiency. Note
quote:it says that a diet low in lactose and wheat helped to get gas under control. So presumably lactose had quite a bit to do with it.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Lactose was many of numerous dietary changes. Lactose malabsorption had nothing to do with the cause of his problem.
But he will have to give in on the intolerance bit.
quote: Logical fallacy: Ad hominem
Well journalists are known to get things wong. That is not so irrelevant. However Reuter's reply should be interesting.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,831 Posts
quote: The high and low lactose preparations contained 13.7 g and <0.01 g lactose per serving, respectively. [[...]Compared to the low-lactose product, total flatus frequency, expressed as passages per day, increased significantly from 10,6[+ or -]13 to 30[+ or -]14 (P=.01l) with the reconstituted powder product, and large and small flatus passages were both significantly increased. The subjective impression of rectal gas volume also significantly increased from a severity score of 0.7[+ or -]1.3 to 2.5[+ or -]1.6 (P=.025).Reference:Nutritional supplements used in weight-reduction programs increase intestinal gas in persons who malabsorb lactose.Journal of the American Dietetic Association, Dec, 2001, by Fabrizis L. Suarez, Luisa M. Zumarraga, Julie K. Furne, Michael D. Levitt http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0822/1...2/article.jhtml
I don't see the relevance of the statement that I quoted in bold to the second half that quote. Your understanding of the paper seems completely wrong. The high lactose product that they are referring to in the last part of the quote had 27.4 g of lactose and not 13.7 as in the part of the quote in bold. That is equivalent to 2 glasses of milk.The statistics relevant to the topic are thusMilk based supplement with 18.4 g lactose- Total flatus 17.8 Small flatus 13.9 Large flatus 3.4Baseline flatus with no lactose: 9 flatus.So the fart frequency doubled with 18 g of lactose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,398 Posts
quote:False. Lactose as much as a cup of milk (~12 grams) can cause flatulence.
Irrelevant. We are talking about a specific case, which had NOTHING to do with lactose.
quote: i.e he did not have any lactase deficiency.
No, of course he had it, but it is irrelevant to his problem.
Non sequitur
quote:It was Levitt.
No it was not. Based on the information we have, the statement was either jumbled or even fabricated by the author of the article, not Levitt.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,831 Posts
flux you have flummmoxed me!
quote: quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i.e he did not have any lactase deficiency.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------No, of course he had it, but it is irrelevant to his problem.
Well flux he had lactase deficiency(I presume by the breath test) and yet you say he didn't have a malabsorption problem. How can that be?Are we talking semantics here? Please define the following tems- lactose malabsorption, lactose intolerance and how either are detected. Let's hash it out once and for all on this thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,398 Posts
quote:flux he had lactase deficiency(I presume by the breath test) and yet you say he didn't have a malabsorption problem. How can that be?Are we talking semantics here?
Lactase deficiency causes lactose malabsorption. But it is irrrelevant to his real problem, which was that he had a strange set of gas-producing bacteria or that he lacked gas-consuming bacteria in the colon.
quote:�� � � �� Also I want to say this about ad hominem. Lawyers in courts challenge the credibility of people all the time. If that is ad hominem, come on
The quote is being challenged, not the person. It just seems funny that he has been misquoted so egregiously and twice!There is, I think, a legitimate explanation for this gross misquoting. The writer has no prior or formal knowledge on this subject (who would?
. The writer does the interview for a few minutes with an expert who is fast-taking complex concepts and simply gets confused. I suppose the writer couldn't use the real quote because it disagrees with the writer's mixed-up understanding of the subject.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
quote:I don't see the relevance of the statement that I quoted in bold to the second half that quote. Your understanding of the paper seems completely wrong. The high lactose product that they are referring to in the last part of the quote had 27.4 g of lactose and not 13.7 as in the part of the quote in bold. That is equivalent to 2 glasses of milk.
Bonnie, I don't understand your first sentence.I see that I misinterpreted Study 1 where the results are listed in Table 1. The high lactose preparation 13.7 grams of lactose that I quoted was only one serving. The subjects received (13.7 g lactose per serving x2 servings) which equals 27.4 g of lactose or approximately 2 glasses of milk. Serving 1 and Serving 2 were ingested ~7AM and 12PM respectively. D'oh! I better not skim the article next time.
However my point was that ingesting a significant amount of lactose can cause flatulence. 13.7 grams taken in the morning, and another 13.7 grams was taken at noon. The data in Table 1 was taken before the study and after the ingestion of the two servings. It is possible that gaseous symptoms were experienced after the ingestion of the first serving. It would be interesting to test the subjects at ~9:30AM. This would see if there was any significant increase of flatulence between baseline and the second serving.Study 1 did conclude:
quote:The consumption of 27.4 g lactose in the reconstituted powder supplement resulted in a massive increase in intestinal gas excretion (see Table 1). The total number of flatus passages increased from 10 times per day with the low-lactose preparation to 30 times per day with consumption of the lactose-rich supplement (P=.011).
quote:skinny: Logical fallacy: Ad hominem http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
quote:flux: Non sequitur
It does follow. You implied that the journalist fabricated the Levitt quote in the effect "like a high school student was saying it." That's an ad homimen. Where is the evidence that the Levitt quote was fabricated? This is the real argument here.
quote:skinny: He found subjects had flatulence after consuming 14 grams of lactose in a Slimfast meal
quote:flux: This finding is not surprising to me and I highly doubt it was to Levitt it either.
quote:skinny: It was Levitt.
quote:flux: No it was not. Based on the information we have, the statement was either jumbled or even fabricated by the author of the article, not Levitt.
Why are you throwing a red herring into this? I've nested the quotes to expose your sophistry. I was referring to the study that Levitt participated in not the quote attributed to Levitt by the journalist.
quote:bonnie: Also I want to say this about ad hominem. Lawyers in courts challenge the credibility of people all the time. If that is ad hominem, come on
Challenging the credibility of someone is not the same as committing an ad hominem. Let's use the example of Dr. Michael Levitt. Here is a man who is known as the gas expert. If I said Dr. Levitt could not be trusted on lactose intolerance/flatulence because a study proved him wrong, I have challenged his credibility by using evidence. This is a rational argument. That's not the argument I would defend. I believe Levitt can be trusted, however, he was wrong on this instance. One mistake shouldn't invalidate a person's long track record. That he publicly admitted he was wrong shows me that he's a good scientist. Science is self-correcting - mistakes are accounted for and corrected.Now if flux can provide a written statement by Dr. Levitt that he was misquoted in the article, I'll recant.
skinny
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,831 Posts
So with a strange set of bacteria all kinds of carbs would cause a problem. Lactose and wheat were just two examples of things he could omit to get a handle on his problem? I wonder why he didn't omit all those fruits too. Basically he should have gone on an all protein diet.Well flux I don't think he has been eggregiously quoted even though I usually treat anything written in magazines as a little suspect.. I was right to gloat
Have you got a reply from Reuters?
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top