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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
the doctors cant seem to find anything wrong with me or my bowels and nothing that I take gives any lasting relief, I do however have another thing and that is 18 amalgam fillings in my head, could this have been the cause of my problems all along?
 

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The number of fillings you need to really get any toxic issue would be about 500. It is totaly dose not that you have a filling at all. (Dr. Andrew Weil is source for that he had an article on this recently)You might get more exposed to mercury by removing them rather than leaving them alone and only replacing them when they need to be replaced. There is a fair amount of fraud out there in mercury testing, so if you do persue this be careful. Some of the tests are not good so they may show you are loaded with it when you are not and you might end up paying a lot of money for no benefit, just like paying a lot of money to get all the fillings removed and replaced may cost a lot of money for no benefit.Actual mercury poisoning (rather than I will tell you your symptoms are mercury poisoning and sell you expensive treatments) has a lot of symptoms that would indicate something other than IBS is going on. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002476.htm has information from a reliable source.Eating too many contaminated fish is much more of an issue than your fillings.K.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks Kath, I have made an appointment with the GP in any case just to be sure. btw I have had these in my mouth for about 15 years would that make a difference eg. symptoms worsening gradually, or could I be sensitive to the mercury?
 

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Most of the evidence is that they are not very likely to be causing your problems.But there are a lot of people willing to make money off of you because you are worried about them (and they do the same thing most of the health fraud providers do where no matter what your symptoms they know what caused it and their usually very expensive treatment will fix it, be careful out there).The doctor most likely will defer to all the scientific work by the American Dental Association FDA and other mainstream organizations saying they are not the problem.
 

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quote:Originally posted by Kathleen M, Ph.D.:The number of fillings you need to really get any toxic issue would be about 500. It is totaly dose not that you have a filling at all. (Dr. Andrew Weil is source for that he had an article on this recently)
This is incorrect. I am unfamiliar with this Dr, but I can tell you that you can be exposed to toxic levels with a lot less than 500 fillings. There are a lot of variables thou - genetics, nutritional factors etc. The WHO estimated in 1991 that the average person with fillings is exposed to 3-10 ug of mercury a day.
quote:You might get more exposed to mercury by removing them rather than leaving them alone and only replacing them when they need to be replaced.
This is true. You need to know what you are doing when you are getting fillings out. More importantly you're dentists needs to know what they are doing and alot of them don't.
quote:There is a fair amount of fraud out there in mercury testing, so if you do persue this be careful. Some of the tests are not good so they may show you are loaded with it when you are not and you might end up paying a lot of money for no benefit, just like paying a lot of money to get all the fillings removed and replaced may cost a lot of money for no benefit.
Fraud is a strong word. Ignorance would be a better one. Actually most of the tests are more likely to give false negatives than false positives. But the basic point is correct - the tests are all ####. DO NOT do a chelation challenge test - they're dangerous. Urine and blood levels are irrevelant to chronic mercury poisoning - they are only accurate for recent acute exposure.
quote:Actual mercury poisoning (rather than I will tell you your symptoms are mercury poisoning and sell you expensive treatments) has a lot of symptoms that would indicate something other than IBS is going on. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002476.htm has information from a reliable source.
Those symptoms and treatments are relevant to acute exposure only. There are different symptoms for elemental, organic and inorganic mercury and there are different symptoms for chronic versus acute exposure.
quote:Eating too many contaminated fish is much more of an issue than your fillings.K.
Most probably this is true. Thou it depends on the number, size and skill of the dentist who installed the fillings. Also - nowadays dental amalgam comes in standardised pre-measured packs for more consistent quality. This is a relatively recent thing - if you're fillings are more than say 10-15 years old they are likely to have been mixed by the individual dentist - meaning the amount of mercury in them varied.
quote:Most of the evidence is that they are not very likely to be causing your problems.
Incorrect - most of the em ....cough... 'evidence' is based on flawed assumptions, flawed experiments or flawed data. And so proves nothing either positive or negative.
quote:But there are a lot of people willing to make money off of you because you are worried about them (and they do the same thing most of the health fraud providers do where no matter what your symptoms they know what caused it and their usually very expensive treatment will fix it, be careful out there).
This is true.
quote:The doctor most likely will defer to all the scientific work by the American Dental Association FDA and other mainstream organizations saying they are not the problem.
OK - all of this work is flawed and ignorant of the basic science of mercury toxicology. And yes I can back that up (thou its very complex and I haven't got time).So - if you really think you have mercury poisoning what do you do? The only person I've come across who actually knows what he's talking about is Andy Cutler. His website :http://www.noamalgam.comHis book: Amalgam Illness - Diagnosis and Treatment.If I were you I would email him directly and ask his advice - his email is on his website I believe. I have mercury poisoning which was originally diagnosed as IBS, then candidiasis, then eventually mercury. I follow his treatment program (with a few of my own tweaks) and I am improving. I no longer have IBS symptoms - my main issue now are joints problems.Note: I did follow other treatments before I heard of him and it made me a hell of a lot worse. Chelation is dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.
 

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To illustrate the level of incompetence (or worse) of the ADA.See the following article on webmd.comhttp://www.webmd.com/content/article/109/109436.htmQuoting from the section on absorption:
quote:"The mercury in fish is methyl mercury and is much more easily absorbed by the gastrointestinal tract, whereas elemental mercury from an amalgam is almost not absorbed," says ADA spokesman J. Rodway Mackert, DDS, a professor in the School of Dentistry at the Medical College of Georgia in Augusta. And if it's not absorbed, it can't cause any problems, he says.
This statement is in fact 100% true. It is also in fact 100% irrelevant. Why? The main route of exposure to mercury from dental amalgam is NOT via gastrointestinal absorption - it is via inhalation - and yes this is well established in the literature. In fact 80% of mercury emitted as vapour from amalgams is absorbed and approximately 7% of that makes it to the brain where it becomes trapped indefinitely. At a rate of 3-10ug a day that adds up over the years. All of these figure I'm taking from research articles thou I cannot remember which ones at the moment (I've read lots of them).So this raises a question - is the ADA spokesman, a professor of medicine,a) ignorant of the facts of mercury toxicology ?or:( is the statement deliberately misleading ?I don't know which. I don't know which scares me more. I do know it is NOT acceptable.
 

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More info:yahoo lists of people using andrew cutlers protocolfrequent_dose_chelationadult_metal_chelationsome people on there are very knowledgable and can answer questions - particularly a guy called tkhttp://www.iaomt.org...a mercury free dentist organisation with lots of infoMaths Berlin - he wrote the entry on mercury in The Handbook of Toxicology back in the 80's and is one of the big names in mercury research. The Swedish government commissioned him to write a report on amalgam use in 2003 and he wrote the following article:http://www.dentalmaterial.gov.se/Mercury.pdf
 

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Andrew Weil is a doctor that publishes a lot of holistic sorts of information. http://www.drweil.com/u/Home/index.htmlUsually if anyone is on the bandwagon for something being good or bad when there is any sort of half-way decent evidence he will be there (I think he overplays the evidence for the goodness or badness of things, but he usually picks the right ones, I thought I should at least give some indication of where I got the number, which I didn't think was a bad thing
)That he can't be convinced of how dangerous it is (and he is someone I view as likely to see it that way) tends to mean something to me even if it doesn't to anyone else.
 

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Yeah I found that site.I thought you were a scientist. You're basing you're opinion on this guys opinion - and from the article I read he doesn't know squat.Read Maths Berlin's article if you want some real info from a genuine expert on the subject. Seriously its really good and is actually well balanced.
 

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That was the most recent place I saw an exact number for what the dose was.I find him usually more reliable than a fair number of the amalgam scare websites and writings. If the evidence is good they will win over everyone. But so far they haven't. I am concerned that people will go to someone who will expose them to far more mercury getting them removed than they would just leaving them alone. Replacing them with a different material as the need to be replaced does make sense to me, but the fear of the fillings tends to be overblown when compared to rivers where the safe level of eating fish is less than one per year per adult human. (and we have areas of rivers in this state where that is the safe dose of fish). We will just have to agree to disagree.K.edit to add here is the dose information from the medical literature http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3&dopt=Abstract
 

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Kathleen - there is no firmly established maximum safe dose for mercury. None, nada - so whatever exact number you saw was baseless.
quote:I find him usually more reliable than a fair number of the amalgam scare websites and writings. If the evidence is good they will win over everyone. But so far they haven't.
Agreed - 99% of the info out there is ****. INCLUDING that from official sources. The fact is the information in clinical circles is 30 years behind the lab work. Most of what these people recommend is actually dangerous (speaking from experience).Sorry I should explain. The actual info known about mercury poisoning is insufficient to to say amalgam's are safe. The area is also full of confusion. To give an example - the ATSDR publish the Toxicological Profile for mercury. In it in one page it states - the halflife of mercury in the brain is on the order of years - this is correct and consistent with various studies. In another section it has a table with the half-life in various tissues - it lists the brain as 60 days. If you read the accompanying text it says this 60 days figure comes from one particular study.So what ?? Well this 60 days figure is oft-quoted in the literature - even thou it is inconsistent with many studies. A personal observation is it is usually quoted in the studies that conclude amalgam is safe.This is the level of buffoonary you are dealing with - the official profile of mercury is not even clear. How do expect various internet quacks to have stuff right ???I recommend cutler as after reading his book a colleague and I spent several weeks researching to verify his ideas about mercury transport. We discovered this has been known about since at least the 70's by the toxicologists - yet somehow has been entirely ignored by the clinicians. Cutlers protocol attempts to take into account the actual biochemical processes of how the stuff moves about the body. Thats why I decided to use it. I don't agree with everything he says - but by personal experience I've found his treatment more effective and safer than the alternative that I've tried.
 

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I just followed your link.30 micrograms/g creatinine urine mercury level is stated as the level where effects are noticeable. well if your read Berlins report you'll see that this is too high.And if you read a bunch of other papers you'll realise that 30ug/g creatinine is in fact meaningless. It does not measure exposure in cases of chronic low dose poisoning - and the ATSDR profile states this (or rather it states that urine levels are only indicative of exposure in cases of recent acute exposure). It does not relate to body load as excretion/retention is determined by genetic and nutritional factors.This paper in fact proves nothing other than the people who wrote do not know what they are talking about.
 

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IBS all gone.Totally using allopathic medicine theory. Standard Brain-Gut theory and all thatDid a clinical trial with Dr. Drossman. 3 months and was way better, and just kept getting better every year. (and 70% of the people in my treatment group in the study also got better, and had improvements at the 1 year follow up, don't know if all of them are as good as me)No medicationsNo dietary supplements (for the IBS, I take them for other reasons)No dietary restrictions I eat whatever I want.No abdominal pain.Stool consistancy and Frequency in normal range.Still farted like crazy after the IBS faded, but I did that before teh IBS started so I can't blame that on the IBS. Probiotics ended up fixing that right up.K.ETA: I still don't follow the logic (because I've been accused of suffering endlessly and needlessly before pretty much ONLY by proponents of one alt. med thingy or another) that because I am skeptical of the vast majority of alt. med. my IBS must be terrible and unending. Just wondering how that follows.Yep, I believe in the brain-gut theories because I have seen them work first hand and know what percentage of people they work for.Why is it bad for me to stand up for what I believe but noble for everyone else, I will never understand.
 

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Kath how did you get your IBS to go away?
 

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I have had bad teeth all my life.I thought maybe my teeth were a part of my IBS problem too. Allot of fillings too. ABout 6 months ago I had all my teeth pulled and got dentures. My IBS is still here 100% the same. My anxiety and panic attacks are worse casue of the accidents of D I have had.So as far as the teeth and filling theory not happening here. IBS the same.
 

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It's in the link at the end of my posts.The clinical trial was using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy designed for treating IBS.About 1/2 way through the 3 months of treatment I had a breakthrough and my IBS went down by about 1/2 in intensity painwise that week.Over the rest of the treatment I got better each week. It is common for improvement to continue after the treatment is over. For several years post treatment I still needed a very low level of medication to keep things under control. Now I don't need that anymore.The Functional GI Clinic I went to has a hypnotherapy treatment they teach to people http://www.ibshypnosis.com and I think there are more people trained in that than the CBT.K.
 
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