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Hi,I just keep wondering why if the medical profession keeps telling us IBS isn't in our heads that over half of their suggested treatments for IBS is "head" treatments. For instance, all those depression medications, relaxation breathing, yoga, hypnotherapy, cognative behavioral therapy. LouLou
 

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I always think the expression "in your head" means that you just think there is a problem when there actually isn't one. Claerly though when I'm cramping up and having actual diarrhea, it's not just made up.But the mind can control your body - think about it, what makes your hands move? I know there is a physical reaction to mental stress. So if I can control that, use the mind to control those chemicals, then the rest of the body should follow. Surely this won't work for all diseases. But for those where there is a connection in the nervous system, it can (and considering that mental stress triggers my IBS, I'm convinced of tihs connection).nancy
 

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So Tom, what are you saying...depression is in your big toe and all that needs to be done is an amputation of the big toe?LouLou
 

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depression is something that's well recognized by the medical profession as a disease that affects both the mind and the body and the best treatment is to get some medicine and talk with somebody that knows how to help. they are starting to realize this applies to other chronic conditions like IBS and recommend treatment for both. it's taken a long time for people to start realizing this about depression but I would hope it doesn't take that long for ibs.tom
 

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Also your body uses many chemicals in many places in many parts of the body for many reasons.Just because you use something like 5% of the serotonin in your whole body in your brain to regulate mood (among other things) this doesn't mean that the antidepressants will only work on that 5% of serotonin in your brain.They can also effect serotonin in the abdomen.There is a vast neural net in the abdomen (the "second brain" or Enteric Nervous System). These nerves use most of the serotonin in your body. For many of the antidepressants they work on these nerves at doses that are incapable of effecting mood. So they can not be helping by fixing your head. They work by effecting the nerves in the body.Antidepressants in the body often effect nerves that have to do with pain sensation and the communication of pain from the body to the brain.K.
 

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I don't know about other modalities, but Yoga is not a "head" remedy.Yoga is a very physical discipline that is based on a number of connecting positions.When doing a yoga routine one would begin in a specific posture and perhaps run through a few other postures for the length of the exercise time.Doing yoga correctly requires repeated experiences of getting the body to conform to the postures. So yoga is actually a fairly physical activity.Because yoga involves a fair bit of stretching, I have found this modality to be very helpful for my IBS C.Relaxation breathing is also a very physical activity. The problem with discomfort and pain is that when we hurt we tend to clamp down and not breathe right, which of course makes the pain all that much worse.That's why the Lamaze method of child birth works well. The expectant mother is taught how to breathe correctly so she can have a much easier delivery.So relaxation breath is very physical too.I think sometimes we forget how the whole breath process can be retrained to give us a more efficient use of our lung capacity.Atheletes use a lot of relaxation breath work.I used to ride horses a lot and the whole breath process made a difference in my riding skills.So if we can employ very physical modalities such as Yoga and breath work, we may see a more harmonious body unit.Kamie.
 

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post:So Tom, what are you saying...depression is in your big toe and all that needs to be done is an amputation of the big toe?__________________________________Actually, if one looks at the modality of reflexology (foot massage)then it could be said that addressing the big toe in reflexology therapy would have a correlation to the whole head/brain connection. The meaty part of the big toe would be the head area addressed in Reflexology.So while, cutting off the big toe, might be considered a bit drastic, addressing the big toe in the philosophy of Reflexology would be a good choice for self help.Kamie
 

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My depression didn't start until after I got IBS.As for Yoga, would it work for someone like me? I can go into spasms if I just bend over to pick something up.
 

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Because they think we can be humiliated, thats the main connection of IBS and depression. Of course, anyone with this diabling condition becomes a little "depressed". I would not think it responsible to give constipating drugs for a side-order of depression when the main problem is the bowel!! Doc, get a bible!! Because our bowels are screwed up by toxins and illness they don't want to admit to. Because of lawsuits and changes to the pesticide approval method that would occur, they want this illness kept quiet as possible. They humiliate us with names like "irritable" when it is actually "awful". The lack of compassion is what depresses me most.
 

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Oh now Frosty, there you go again being your old crankey self.What's wrong?The smoothe muscle experiment not working?I don't realy want to know......moving on......Well, Frostey YOU may think it's a HOAX in the insulated little bomb shelter you have for your abode, but I approach the whole idea of reflexology as a professional.It will be a little bit of an argument that you should pick up with the State Licencing Boards, that my PROFESSION is not a HOAX.Or shall I say former profesion since as of this year I closed down my office and moved to another state.Never the less, my Professional status is indeed a real profession. http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/massage/ma_lic_req.html Massage Therapy Licensure RequirementsMASSAGE THERAPIST MASSAGE ESTABLISHMENTS APPRENTICESHIP COLONIC IRRIGATION CERTIFICATION ENDORSEMENT BOARD APPROVED SCHOOLS MASSAGE THERAPIST Complete the application form and remit appropriate licensure fee(s) - $150; Must be eighteen (18) years of age or has received a high school diploma or graduate equivalency diploma (G.E.D.); Completed a course of study at a Board approved massage therapy school licensed by the Florida Department of Education or the equivalent licensing authority in another state, or is within the Florida public school system (minimum of 500 classroom hours) or completed a Board-approved apprenticeship program; Proof of passing the National Certification Examination administered by (NCTMB) [Candidates for licensure by examination can apply directly to NCBTMB by calling 1-800-296-0664 to request a Candidate Handbook. The fee for the examination ($225) should be paid directly to NCBTMB by all candidates] ; and, Completion of a three (3) hour Board approved educational course on HIV/AIDS. APPRENTICESHIP Secure the sponsorship of a licensed sponsoring massage therapist who has practiced three (3) years; Complete the application furnished by the Department and pay the required fee of $255. Complete training under the licensed sponsoring massage therapist, in a qualified licensed massage establishment inspected for rule compliance; Complete training in at least twelve (12) months and no longer than twenty-four (24) months; and, Quarterly reports completed and submitted by the licensed sponsoring massage therapist reflecting the number of hours in the nine required subject areas totaling one thousand four hundred and fifty-three (1453) hours. A sponsor may only supervise one apprentice at a time. _________________________________________FYI, I also hold a National License.And my office was approved to teach apprenticesin the specialized body therapy we did.____________________________________________-For further information on that professional liscensing: National Certification Board for Therapeutic Massage and Bodywork8201 Greensboro Drive, Suite 300 � McLean, VA 22102 1-800-296-0664 � (703) 610-9015 � Fax: (703) 610-9005Top of PageCopyright � 1999 - 2001 by the National Certification Board for Therapeutic Massage and Bodywork. All Rights Reserved._______________________________________Article on NCB website:What does it mean to be Nationally Certified? National Certification sets standards for massage and bodywork practitioners. National Certification protects the consumer, the profession and employers by ensuring that individuals who obtain this credential have skills consistent with specific national standards and criteria. To become eligible for certification, practitioners must possess certain levels of education, experience and training, demonstrate mastery of core skills, abilities and knowledge, and pass a certification exam.What types of massage and bodywork techniques are part of the national certification program? The NCBTMB Certification Program is designed to include practitioners from all modalities and disciplines. These include Swedish massage, shiatsu, polarity therapy, Rolfing�, Trager� techniques, reflexology, neuromuscular therapy and more. http://www.ncbtmb.com/consumers_guide.htm Please NOTE.....REFLEXOLOGY is listed in the core of approved modalities for this PROFESSION.Frosty, I can appreciate your skepticism at times, however, it is just inappropriate, demeaning and otherwise uninformed to be so behind the times in the health practitioner field and to totally exclude real and bonified Professions.I mean heck Frosty, we pay enough money out every year to keep up with our continuing education and do all the legeslative stuff it takes to continually work to help provide a better quality of health care for people.Just because you have a dour attitude about life, it does not mean that real professions in modalities you would rather ignore, do not exist.Speak with informed thoughts Frosty. Chronic Crankiness leads to Disruptive Dementia.KamieOh and Tom, It was the practice of REFLEXOLOGY as a real body therapy modality that I was refering to in my post.If you wish to go do some research on the correct REFLEXOLOGY modality that meets the criteria for our continuing education requirements, I would be glad to answer any questions you may have about "said" modality.
 

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Dane, I go into spasms too. I just went through Emergency Room hell because of one of those left side body spasms. It turned out to be my heart and I am now seeing a cardiologist and have new meds.Something like Yoga may not TOTALLY preventyour spasms or other conditions,but I can tell you from my own perspective that doing Yoga and applying other physical modalities helps me cope better and recover faster. And during my more healthy times I can do more and take the opportunities of those windows of health to enjoy a better life.Every little bit helps when ones body is innundated by physical difficulty.I know that doctors and other medical professionals are amazed that I do as physically well as I do.I believe that comes from a life long dedication to working with my body on a physical modality level.I believe the key to the body lies in the power of the efficient stretch.When picking a teacher for Yoga, (and you do need a teacher to begin)You would want to talk to them about the type of Yoga they teach and practice.Currently there is a YOGA explosion going on. This is bad and good. On the one hand, there are more teachers around with better standards of training.Yoga as a teaching profession is getting close to being Nationally regulated.This current trend helps to insure a better quality of practioner.Most credible Yoga teachers study for many many years before arriving at the level of teaching.You might try to look in the direction of KripalauYoga or Hatha Yoga. As you begin to research Yoga styles you will find a huge variety in practice and structure.Doing some of the more damanding "Power Yoga" that has become very popular these days, is not a good choice for anyone of a spastic body nature.You will also want to have a good indepth conversation with any prospective teacher.You need to be certain that your teacher recognizes your physical limitations and works towards the most correct approach to the postures that will help your condition and not hinder your condition.Yoga should never hurt or compromise the body.Many of the yoga stretches are the same movementsthat people in rehabilitation physical therapy are given in hospitals.Interesing fact.So, if you take a bit of time to research Yoga modalities and then to interview prospective teachers, then you may come away with a life long skill that will help your body stay in better shape.We may not be able to totaly control our bodies sometimes, but we can sure do what we can to make living in them more pleasant.Kamie
 

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post:kamie, I assumed your post was legitimate as was my question.________________________Tom, Toddle on over to the Florida Department of Health website.The whole of my Profession is there and all the laws that apply. http://www9.myflorida.com/mqa/proflist.htm This page lists PROFESSIONS under the jurisdiction of the Florida Hepartment of Health.We are certified, bonified and otherwise TAXED!!!!accordingly.we are listed on the professions page right there between Marriage and Family Therapyand Medical Physicists under the heading of Regulated Professions Major.At one point the profession of massage Therapy was under the Department of Business Professions but they changed that for the Profession to be regulated by the Department of Health which turnd out to be a good call because then practices like mine could work with insurance companies on follow up rehabilitation.Don't assume anything Tom. Go see for your self and then make your decisions.And yes, who does watch the Quack watchers?Kind of mean and demeaning it seems to me to be a professional in the area of real health care and get called a Hoax and other unpleasant things by people who consider them selves to be all knowing in the area of health care and especially in the area of alternative modalitiesI mean really......what makes Hypnotherapy any more valid than Massage Therapy as a priofession.We are MUCH MUCH more heavily regulated than the hypnosis practitioners.What's up with that?I dunno that answer Tom, since the practice of Dissing seems to be approved here because it happens all the time.So for me I tend to blow it off but then I have a hormonal day like today and then I decide to say something about it.No biggie.Just blowing off Estrogenic steam with things thatare anoying.to each their own. My little input is trival so don't worry and decide for your self what you think.Kamie
 

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They have studied Reflexology for IBS. I just would not like to see confusion between the two therapies for IBS as I feel it needs to be calrified on this thread.Br J Gen Pract 2002 Jan;52474:19-23 A single-blind trial of reflexology for irritable bowel syndrome. Tovey P. School of Healthcare Studies, University of Leeds. BACKGROUND: Irritable bowel syndrome IBS is a significant problem for primary care, as treatment options are limited and it can frequently develop into a chronic condition. Complementary and alternative medicine, including reflexology, is being turned to increasingly in an attempt to manage symptoms. There are currently no studies which address the effectiveness of reflexology for IBS. Despite this, it continues to be advocated and used. AIM: To provide the first evidence on the effectiveness of reflexology in the management of the core defining symptoms of IBS. DESIGN OF STUDY: A single-blind trial carried out in primary care settings. SETTING: Thirty-four participants diagnosed with IBS on the basis of the Rome Criteria. METHOD: Participants were allocated to receive either a reflexology foot massage or a non-reflexology foot massage control group. RESULTS: On none of the three symptoms monitored--abdominal pain, constipation/diarrhoea, and abdominal distention--was there a statistically or clinically significant difference between reflexology and control groups. CONCLUSION: On the basis of these results there is nothing to suggest that reflexology produces any specific benefit for patients with IBS. There is currently no evidence to support its use. However this was one relatively small scale study; further research that, for example, assesses the impact of therapist professional and lay versus therapy, is still needed. Publication Types: Clinical Trial Multicenter Study Randomized Controlled Trial PMID: 11791811Hypnotherapy from someone who does Clinical Gut directed HT for IBS is effective for a lot of reasons and twenty years of research is there to back it up."The experience to date may be outlined as follows: Reported success rates range from approximately 70-95% in all studies with any significant number of patients [for example, in the work of the Manchester group in England(4,5,13) and our studies(6,7)]. The improvement enjoyed from this treatment often lasts at least two years after the end of treatment(5). All major IBS symptoms improve from this kind of treatment (abdominal pain, diarrhea/constipation, and bloating). There are some indications that individuals with certain characteristics are somewhat less likely to benefit from this kind of treatment(5,7,13): People with very little hypnotizability (perhaps 15-25 % of all people), persons with psychiatric disorders, and maybe (according to one report) males with diarrhea-predominant type of IBS. This treatment can be effective also when people are treated in groups(14). In addition to effects on physical symptoms, the treatment commonly improves psychological well-being and life functioning substantially(6,7,13,15) and can have long-term positive effects in reducing disability and health care costs and improving the quality of life of IBS patients(15). " http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/HypnosisPalsson.html Sluggo, I am really surprized by your post, they know way more about IBS then that and its a complicated condition. First you have to take the time to understand it though.This thread is way off from Lou Lou's orginal question which IS A REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION, everyone with IBS should know about in order to understand the condition better and be able to treat and manage it!!!!!!
 

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Eric, # 1, I was not making a case for Reflexology as a specific treatment for IBS.I was making a comparison where Lulu was making the comparison of the wild possibility of depression being related to the big toe and the wild assumption that one might cut the big toe off to remedy the situation of depression in the head.post: posted 10-30-2002 06:43 PM-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So Tom, what are you saying...depression is in your big toe and all that needs to be done is an amputation of the big toe?LouLou ____________________________________so based on the wild assumption I read, I went on to clarify the real and workable modality of reflexology as a complimentary attempt to bring systematic relief of general malaise as opposed to the toe cutting ritual of self medication.Since LuLu was talking about cutting off toes, either in jest(as I figured) or in actualityI felt that shedding some light on the interconnectedness of body modalities would be a more positive train of thought.After all, LuLu was talking about BIG TOES and BIG TOES are indeed in the area of foot reflexology.However, it appears that I was wrong because those who believe they have ALL the answers to the rules of IBS simply refuse to open their closed minds to the possibilities of other real modalities because one big funded research or another wrote the IBS Bible of modern medicine and all Holistic care.Ya know what Eric, I could care less about the gazillion documents and research articles and whatever.Because ya know what....I've got IBS.I know I have IBS because my Gastroenterologist wrote it on my chart.However, if I might adhere to the strict by the rules assessment of IBS I might not have IBS at all. However, it would appear that now 3 count them THREE Gastroenterologists and a colon surgeon in 2 different states all seem to think that I have IBS.oh but what the heck do they know.So, because I do have medically diagnosed IBS then I can tell you from first hand, this is my body experience, that reflexology and body work work better for my personal control of my bowel malfunctions than hypnosis or any head stuff.Now, take note here, because I don't believe that I have stated this ever so clearly before. However, I am making a point of mentioning it now because you took it upon yourself to point your finger at a modality for what it is not and simply cannot be in the rules of the world according the the high priests of IBS land.So, since the finger was pointed and the modality addressed, then I suppose the proper response might be in the revelation of the silent reality.I'm a physical person.I'm extremely active when I am feeling well in my daily life.Before adhesions in my pelvis required a lifestyle change,I did a lot of very physical things. i rode horses at least 3X a week if not more. So for me, and maybe many like me, it's possible that a physical modality might make a better choice in ones approach to personal therapy to keep the gut cranking and the world turning. afterall, they say that exercise is indeed a part of the whole health descriptive.There are many many ways to handle IBS symptoms, many of which you or others in your field might know little or nothing about.So my contrubution here is as a participant from the level of someone who lives with IBS too.However, to constantly get jumped on for having a real opinion is just tedious.You guys are so busy trying to prove what does not work, you fail to have the open mind of a true researcher who is on the trail of new discoverise.So much for alternative thought.What a constrictive drag.But then,constipation of the bowel is often symptomatic of constipation of the mind so as is in the world of manifet reality, is as the worldof the mind and it's projected reality.But heck, I can say that because I have IBS constipation and I too have had to examine my own outdated Dogma.Or, as in the case of Diarreah, where there may be the explosive ejection of undigested energy and half formed ideas.So yet once again, someone has taken a thought and a response and run over to throw sand on the intellectual fire because horrors, heaven forbid, someone is responding to another and making a point, not in treatment, but in philosophy of the sublime and ridiculous in the form of sarchasm(what I really think the posted comment was about)and how said sarcasm could be dove tailed into a real and useful mode of balancing the two extremes of misinterpreted thought.Post:so you don't forget So Tom, what are you saying...depression is in your big toe and all that needs to be done is an amputation of the big toe?LouLou _____________________________________________My response in full: so you don't forget.Actually, if one looks at the modality of reflexology (foot massage)then it could be said that addressing the big toe in reflexology therapy would have a correlation to the whole head/brain connection. The meaty part of the big toe would be the head area addressed in Reflexology.So while, cutting off the big toe, might be considered a bit drastic, addressing the big toe in the philosophy of Reflexology would be a good choice for self help.______________________________Now, Eric, where in that statement did I say thatself help was specifically the much guarded golden specific of the ever holy IBS?Where in my response did I mention IBS therapy?To which you felt the need to clarify something that was never a part of my statement?__________________________________________your post:so you don't forget.Eric:They have studied Reflexology for IBS. I just would not like to see confusion between the two therapies for IBS as I feel it needs to be calrified on this thread.next statement:However this was one relatively small scale study; further research that,for example, assesses the impact of therapist professional and layversus therapy, is still needed._____________________________________Gosh, Eric, I don't know what needed to be clairified since I was talking about chickens and you were talking about goats.Seems to me that you had more of a need to provesomething wrong that was totally off in another direction and directive.As for IBS and reflexology....the only real point that you made, that was of any clarity as far as I am concerned, is the point that the holy study much touted to negate the unwashed ideas of the cosmic peanut gallery,is indeed, only a small scale study and that the possibility of further research might be needed in the arena of the questionable mythical practice.So Eric, what are you so afraid of?Confusion?You don;t want anyone confused and led down the merry path of the ever indulgent and grotesquely dangerous practice of FOOT RUBS!!!Well, you may just have a point there because what oh what would become of our already agressive tense society if indeed every one had their feet rubbed to the...GOD FORBID...to the point of relaxation.Note I said RELAXATION and not REFLEXOLOGYbecause we don't want any one to be confused between the two and we most certainly don't want to cross any IBS rules about no relaxation for the wicked.Relaxation.What a concept.And regardless of how many tests and electrodes one might subject themselves to, all in the name of proof and science.....who of you can truly say that having a good ol' foot rub wouldn't relax you all, except those of the most Grinchy of Grinch demeanors.And bottom line.....regardless of the ins and outs of the technicality, Reflexology by any name, is indeed, in it's most pure and simple form, one heck of a relaxing, nice, maybe even a little indulgent foot rub.It's WORDS Eric, WORDS.Sometimes meaningless words to satisfy the obsessive need to catagorize and rule.You know, along with my Massage license I also hold a cosmetology license.You know, Cosmetologists can do massage and treat skin.We do it all the time in Salon settings.In addition to the Dermatologist, many many people employ the skills of the Cosmetologist to help in the treatment of skin problems like Roseacea.(just an example)We can do body massage and skin treatments on the level of some pretty clinical and specific work all in the name of Beauty.Yep.There's a whole bunch of procedures and chemicals we get to use with our particular licensing if we just SAY we are doing such... all in the name of beautifying the body and the skin.Much of what we do does border on medical.Infact, it is the Plastic Surgeon who employs a Cosmetologist for work in good Plastic Surgery practices.But we do, all we do, in the name of BEAUTY and not therapy or medicine.And of course, if you have an ugly problem, such as the ever unattractive condition of roseacea, then it stands to reason that when the organic problem is addressed, then the result is better looking skin and hence, the goal of aesthetic appeal is achieved.So we approach the physical in a very therapudic way but in the name of beauty.But ya know what Eric.....the reality is, that we all know it's the same thing up to a few points.Who cares what you eventually call it and what the mind does to manipulate the words, in the end, if the outcomes leaves us in a better space, then hang the battle over words and go with what feels good and brings betterment to our lives.So let me make a bold and bolder statement here....I think PEDICURES are a good treatment for IBS.There. Let that one simmer for a while.PEDICURES.Think of it like this...especially for the women.It's summer.You've been invited to a huge social event.The big socialite wedding of the year.You are going to wear sandles but you've been out climbing mountians all year and your feet are a wreck.What oh what to do.So you go to the salon.You go to the salon and you tell the nail lady how stressed you are about the wedding and how your ex boyfriend is going to be there with his new fiance and your IBS!!!! is acting up...of course we will pick IBS D for this example because as we all know, that one would be infinately more traumatic at some higly social dysfunctional event.And so you lament about the zit on your jaw line and your hair color that's been wrecked from too much swimming and your cut is all wrong and how bout that acne on the back and the sleeveless little slip dress you would look totally awesome in if it were not for the wretched condition on the back......So then, all in the name of beauty you get a pedicure and fall asleep in the char after pouring out your soul to the nail lady and then the Aestitician takes you in and packs you in mud to draw out the skin poisons and you get buffed and polished and you sleep some more while you are being wrapped in hot moist towels and then they wake you up and lead you over to the styling chair where Chad the chizzled greek god of a stylist whips up his vision of Goddessness for you and and then you get a little tea and a little sandwich and then you go home and poof.............diarreah all gone.....and you go to the wedding and hold up your head and walk past the ex fiance while his mouth drops to the floor because you are hotter than hot and all ready to begin a new life, because as your are walking past the ex fiance whoes jaw is dropping, you remember what a dog he is and all in that moment you have the realization that yes in deed life can be good.AMEN.So,heres one to think about...........The real and therapudic value of the BEAUTY SALONS.Yep it can happen. It does happen.It's REALITY.The numberone person people talk to about their troubles is the Salon professional.It's an industry fact that both men and women will go to the salon when they need to feel better on many many levels.That's why those fancy spas do such great business at such outraegeous prices.A weekend salon retreat is often compared to the experience of Valium.If you write the grant I'll do the study.And NO I am not being sarcastic.Because the therapudic reality of going to the salon and getting ones hair cut and colored is a ritual of self help that has existed for aeons.So much for science.KamieOh, and by the way, Ol Frosty isn't gonna like this hog wash either.Which by the way, was the core of my other comment regarding the reality of my profession in relation to being a real profession...not exclusively used for the select and omniimportant IBSers of the world.No where in our professional criteria were we ever told that our lifes work and validity totally and singularly applied to only IBS as an elite dysfunction.However, it is a bit rude to decide that just because it isn't your cup of green tea that we, like the mythical unicorn do not exist.
 
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