[Guest]

British Journal of Obstetrics and GynaecologyVol. 104, pp. 1409-1412, Dec. 1997 Is There an Irritable Bladder in the Irritable Bowel Syndrome?AbstractIn this prospective case controlled study 16 premenopausal women with documented irritable bowel syndrome were recruited from the gastroenterology clinic and 16 premenopausal controls without symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome were recruited from the gynaecology clinic. All women answered a standardised bowel and urinary symptom questionnaire and underwent twin channel subtracted cystometry. Women with irritable bowel syndrome also underwent oesophageal balloon distension studies for perception and pain. Oesophageal and bladder sensory thresholds were compared. Urinary frequency and urgency and the urodynamic finding of detrusor instability were significantly more common in women with irritable bowel syndrome (P < 0.05). We were unable to demonstrate a relationship between first sensation of bladder fullness and oesophageal perception or between maximum bladder capacity and oesophageal pain thresholds. These findings suggest that there is an irritable bladder in the irritable bowel syndrome and support the concept that irritable bowel syndrome is part of a generalised disorder of smooth muscle. (Br J Obstet Gynaecol. 1997;104:1409-1412) ------------------Missycat

 

[flux]

I don't have the full study, but I see a few issues.One why did they study the esophagus and not the colon? Did these IBS patients have specific upper GI symptoms?Second, what problem did they find with the esophagus? It is not clear that anything wrong was found with it.Third, it appears that the women who did not have IBS did not have the esophageal study done. So then there is no comparison for part of the study and the IBS diagnosis is based on the questionaire only.If I had the full study I could tell more, but the conclusion is a big stretch given just the abstract.

 

[Guest]

And I thought Fluz was a guy...........

 

[lizzie]

Without the full study it is hard to say exactly why they studied the esophagus. My guess is that it is smooth muscle like the bowel and is easier to test the pain threshold in that area.I am an example of someone who has both irritable bowel and bladder. They must be on to something when they say it is a smooth muscle problem. My guess is that it is a hypersensitivity of nerves to that area triggered by all the things we know: stress, food etc.

 

[flux]

It is very easy to test pain threshold in the rectum, so the esophageal testing seems peculiar. In fact, rectal pain sensitivity could almost considered a way to diagnose IBS.All they really found is that women who fit the symptom profile for IBS appear to have some abnormality in their bladder. That doesn't suggest a problem with smooth muscle; it just suggests that women who fit the symptom profile IBS appear to have some abnormality in their bladder.

 

[marianne]

Sounds like Adelle Davis was correct 30 years with her calcium-muscle comments.

 

[flux]

How does an apparently poorly done study with an apparently invalid conclusion have anything to do with Adele Davis's view on calcium?

 

[Missycat]

To quote from above:"These findings suggest that there is an irritable bladder in the irritable bowel syndrome and support the concept that irritable bowel syndrome is part of a generalised disorder of smooth muscle."------------------Missycat

 

[flux]

To quote from above...All they really found is that women who fit the symptom profile for IBS appear to have some abnormality in their bladder. That doesn't suggest a problem with smooth muscle; it just suggests that women who fit the symptom profile IBS appear to have some abnormality in their bladder.

 

[Missycat]

Thank You.

 

[Phyllis McDonnell]

Coincidentally, I have been suffering since March 29 with what I assumed was "cystitis" but this time it seems to be aggravated by pressure from my colon, which had a bad time during the previous week, and has not settled yet. It starts off with great discomfort and pressure in the mornings, and by lunchtime, when the colon has emptied, the feelings of urgency and discomfort have gone. It's back again the next morning.I'm reluctant to seek medical help, because over the years I have always had antibiotics, and I don't tolerate some of them too well, so I don't want to get into that again, particularly if it's not a bacterial thing. I've been drinking lots of cranberry juice and taking over-the-counter stuff (Cystopurin).Anyone else have this problem?------------------Phyllis

 

[marianne]

Over the past 40 years I can't tell you how many times I have been disagnosed as having cystitis and put on antibiotics. Everytime this happened the lab results came back negative and it apparently wasn't cystitis at all, but the symptoms persist. I finally bought the at-home-do it yourself UTI test strips. There are two kinds - the best have two little cushions and are about $10 for 3 strips. The cheaper kind have one little cushion and cost about $10 for 10 strips. I now use the former to save myself the time and trouble of going to the doctor. I suffer from an inflammatory muscle disease (not named by the rheumatologist) and I think this and the IBs are at fault.

 

[Guest]

This cystitis question is interesting. I've had IBS forever and several years ago my doc discovered blood in my urine (thru a urine test for something else, the blood has never been visible). I went thru all the tests to "check it out" and nothing was found - the urologist just told me that a certain percentage of the population (something like 15-20%) have blood in their urine for no apparent reason - and that it is more common in women than men. But I frequently have that cystitis-like discomfort.

 

[Guest]

My gastroenterologist has suggested I may have both IBS and irritable esophagus, as I am dealing with terrible acid reflux in addition to abdominal symptoms. I found the above interesting because I have gone through many bouts of "cycstitis". Now I deal with cycstitis symptoms by drinking lots of water and a solution of baking soda and water (NOT CRANBERRY JUICE) and I haven't had a full-blown bout in 3 or 4 years. I notice the "cystitis" symptoms occur at the end of my menstrual cycle.

 

[mitchell goldstein]

i am a man at least since the last time i checked. when my ibs is severe i too suffer from urinary urgency and frequency. the colon and the urogenital system are in very close proximity and when the area becomes overutilized and irritated i assume nothing is spared. just an assumption

 

[flux]

Missed this...jazzy626...Hematuria is not normal.. Something somewhere is leaking red blood cells. When you say you had all the tests, did you have a kidney biopsy? As far as 10-15% having it, that sounds unrealistically too high.

 

[LNAPE]

Some of the side effects of some of the meds they put us on for IBS also may be part of the bladder problem as in difficulty in urinating or having the urge to go.Linda

 

[Guest]

For 13 years I have been suffering from IBS-D now. I'm an expert in cystitis too (at least 15 times during the last two years). I was always reluctant to take antidepressants. Last winter I was so desperate having the two "IBS"-deseases I started with Deanxit (antidepressant, anxiolyticum: 0,5 mg Flupentixol. dihydrochlor., 10 mg Melitracen. hydrochlor.).Since then I haven't had cystitis!!! And with calcium (I only take calcium with no other ingredients) my D is much, much better.Cornelia H.

 

[Guest]

I have had IBS for 38 years and have always had problems with my bladder. Going and getting my kidney's checked everything alwaysturns out ok !! The times I have been in the hospital with my IBS (and that has been many)when they test the urine it ALMOST ALWAYS comes back with blood in the urine or bacteria in the urine but they can never find anything else. I really believe the two irritable bowel and irritable bladder go hand and hand. That's for me and my irritable parts

 

[Guest]

Very interesting! Jazzy I too have had blood in my urine constantly for the last 6 years at least. After kidney stone attacks the blood is visible and then decreases but is still present in tests. They suggested a kidney biopsy but it came with its own side effects and the result would not be guaranteed to diagnose the cause. Also treatment would not change when kidney stone attacks arrive. No point in the test if it doesnt change the outcome! Never any cystitis though.