[Civilmonk]

Hi,my wife is suffering of SIBO/IBS and as additive to drugs (currently: neomycine, previous: xifaxan and still probiotics ofcourse) we want to use proper diet. We have read books of M.Pimentel (A New IBS Solution) and E.Gottschall (Breaking the Vicious Cycle). Both books are talking about the same purpose: bacterial overgrowth. Both are talking about diet that will make bacterial starving. But there are some differences.M.Pimentel allows to use white bread, rice, potatoes but E.Gottshall not. Why there are such differences? Greetings.Jarek

 

[Kathleen M.]

Breaking the Vicious Cycle was developed for IBD (inflammatory bowel disease)Pimental is for IBS. (irritable bowel syndrome)To start with.You ask two different experts what their diet recommendations are and if you are lucky you only get two answers. You may get three or four.People don't even agree on what assumptions and theories to use to base the diet on, so you can't expect the diets they come up with to be identical. Even if they agree on a few things, they are unlikely to agree on every last one. Even if they had the exact same assumptions and interpretations of theory they may make their guestimates differently as for a lot of this stuff there is no hard data to use to draw the lines.The seem to disagree on how quickly some carbs are absorbed, either that or what the cut off of the timing is that you need them out of the small intestine. You draw those lines in different places you get different answers to the what is allowed.

 

[Civilmonk]

Breaking the Vicious Cycle was developed for IBD (inflammatory bowel disease)Pimental is for IBS. (irritable bowel syndrome)To start with.You ask two different experts what their diet recommendations are and if you are lucky you only get two answers. You may get three or four.People don't even agree on what assumptions and theories to use to base the diet on, so you can't expect the diets they come up with to be identical. Even if they agree on a few things, they are unlikely to agree on every last one. Even if they had the exact same assumptions and interpretations of theory they may make their guestimates differently as for a lot of this stuff there is no hard data to use to draw the lines.The seem to disagree on how quickly some carbs are absorbed, either that or what the cut off of the timing is that you need them out of the small intestine. You draw those lines in different places you get different answers to the what is allowed.

Hm. I can't agree with you. Firstly - E.Gottshall is also talking about dysbiosis and bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) as cause of IBS. As M.Pileman. So there schould be common point for both diets. Secondly - this is science, not magic. So there schould be answer about how carbs are absorbed. So I'm looking for that answer.GreetingsJarek

 

[Kathleen M.]

I never implied it was magic.Science isn't all 100% totally known answers where everyone agrees that A happens at 3.5 hours in or at this particular inch of the small intestine.If that experiment hasn't been done (or hasn't been done by enough people enough times in large enough populations of people to get all the standard variation in normal people before you even start looking at people with various assorted diseases) everyone is for the most part making a guess. May be a well educated guess, but it is still a guess.Even when we have the data in sufficient quantities to actually know what reality is (which is a lot harder than most people believe it is) getting two scientists to interpret any given data point or any given theory the exact same way that agrees in 100% of the details is like herding cats. Scientists get ahead in their career by disagreeing with other people about what the data means. So expecting two books, even based on science, to agree is like asking the moon to rotate around the earth the other way for a day or two. Ain't gonna happen.The original development of The SCD diet from what i understand historically was it was made for IBD long before anyone ever had the idea that some IBSers had SIBO. It predates that theory by at least a few years, and I thought by maybe a couple of decades. That she may currently be applying it to new ideas about IBS doesn't mean she originally developed for IBS.

 

[idkwia]

Civilmonk - as frustrating as it is the bottom line is that nobody really knows what causes or helps IBS and SIBO. There are lots of theories but nobody yet has found the 100% answer.However, there is no doubt that both Dr Pimental and The Specific Carbohydrate Diet have helped a lot of people. The only way your wife is going to know is to try both diets and see if either one helps.I assume your wife has tested positive for SIBO?Have you thought about going to see Dr Pimental?Good luck.

 

[Moises]

You can emphasize what Pimentel and (the late) Gottschall have in common or what they disagree about. The fact is that, from a theoretical point of view, they are very close. I first heard about the elemental diet from Gottschall. I never heard of it again till years later when reading Pimentel. Pimentel's diet helped me more than Gottschall's. But I am forever grateful that Gottschall got me started on the path of low-carb, which did help me significantly. The problem I had with Gottschall was that too many of the foods she allowed gave me problems. But her theoretical perspective transformed my understanding of my condition. Until I read Gottschall I was completely convinced that vegetarianism and low-fat were the healthiest ways to eat. Only after I started implementing her plan did I realize that near-vegetarianism and low-fat were the reason I had ten bowel movements per day.