[bkitts]

I have been taking klonopin for the constant pain I've had for 6 years with IBS. My doctor retired, so I went to another who sent me to Pain Management. This doctor put me on a low lose of oxycotin last Monday. The klonopin doesn't work like it did for years, very frustrating!!! I was taking 20mg 2 times a day of Oxycontin up to today. It wasn't helping, and I don't really think Narcotics are a good idea with Chronic Functional Abdominal Pain, part of IBS. I now need to find a doctor to prescribe the klonopin, I have 3 months supply from retired doc. Did I do the right thing in choosing not to take a Narcotic??? It just made me kind of tired and a litle high. Worked on the emotions, not the pain. The doctor wasn't exactly great with listening. He wanted me to go and get a second opinion from his surgeon friend!!! All I did was mention trying Valium and dropping klonopin and oxyconin. He hit the roof like I was some druggie!!! Funny, he'd prescribe any narcotic, but not valium. What the heck is the deal with that? Just wanting to know if I did the right thing choosing to walk away from Narcotics. I took vicodin for 5 months last year and ended up building up a tolerance quick and spent 6 weeks off work going through detox!!! Breck

 

[kamie]

Personally, I can't stand narcotics.I don't like them in my body at all.I get good anti spasmodics which help most of the time and a combo SSRI/Tricyclic Antidepressant which has a good bit of help for pain and then when things get really bad I go to the doctor.My Internal med doctor told me to go to the ER when the pain gets really bad and my BP and pulse get high.I never go if my pulse is under 100.However, this last week we hit a bad spot.I was having a big raise in my BP and Pulse and I had left shoulder/arm and jaw pain and I went to the ER and I got tortured by this crazed ER doctor who insisted on giving me dilauded.Makes no sense.Then when I had an allergic reaction to the stuff she tells me that I am not having an allergic reaction and we had to leave that hospital and get me to another ER where I was treated for an allergic reaction to the medication I was given in the other ER.Personally, where I am right now, I'm just going to keep walking away from doctors and facilities and anywhere else that does not treat me right.It's nuts.But we pay the bills and we can, at some point say, I want another doctor.Kamie

 

[Debbielee]

Kitt,I am sorry to hear this. You have not given the oxycontin enough time. The tiredness and loopy feeling will leave. Thas the beauty of long acting meds. It allows one to function. You can view it as the "terrible" narcotic but in truth it is another med.Klonopin is a Benzo as is Valium and just as physically dependent as any narcotic. The abuse of benzos is on the rise and probally why your doc freaked.Klonopin is not meant for pain relief. If your pain is getting worse then it makes sense that the klonopin is no longer working like it did.Klonopin itself is very long acting and thats why it is replacing xanax for chronic anxiety or spasms.Chronic conditions often call for chronic use of meds, including opiads. Any med that a pt. with a Chronic condition takes will leave one physically dependent. Including anti-depressents.That does not make one a "druggie".Dependency and addiction are 2 different things. I hope Kitt you can resolve your problem and get relief.I have the same problem as you plus some and the oxy works and i can now leave my home.I also have normal bowel function for the first time in my life.I am not suggesting this route for everyone but nor do i care to see this type of therapy demonized due to misinformation.DebbieModerator CP Forumwww.mediboard.com

 

[kamie]

post:I am not suggesting this route for everyone but nor do i care to see this type of therapy demonized due to misinformation._____________________________________________That would be true about the class of SSRI's and Tricyclic antidepressants also.A lot of people simply have issues or they do really badly on these medications.I think if the chemistry is not right for ones body then most definately another course of medication would be indicated.I saw a post a while back....somewhere...I don't remeber, talking about using HBP meds and Calcium blockers for things that SSRI's would be used for.It appeared that the comments made were made with the feeling that somehow high blood pressure meds and calcium blockers might be a better choice of medications.But I have to wonder in comparison to what?For all the resistence to using those brain chemical meds I have to wonder if people realize that HBP meds work on the brain too and help to regulate things that are cauwsing the BP to be unstable.I've been on HBP meds for 15+ years and I can tell you they too have their down side and many many side effects.Most of them can cause depression or anxiety but heck, depression or anxiety is so much more manageable than a stroke.At least that's my thought.Actually HBP is a pretty anxiety provoking disorder. It's tough on the body when ones heart is always racing. One simply get fatigued on all levels. Mental and emotional and physical.Anytime we use things to help control the out of control body, it's going to have it's own problems.For some, the problems caused by out of control pain or out of control body systems are far worse than the attempt to give ourselves a better quality of life.I personally don't do well on narcotics at all.I puke my brains out and with stuff like morphine and dilauded and then I need intervention from the medication itself.It does not matter if they give me phenegran.I still get horribly ill.However, I can take demerol w/ phenegran when I need a big narcotic intervention such as for surgery and the points where my body troubles cause a spike in my BP and Pulse.At the pulse of 100 and rising I get demeroland phenegran I.V. because that brings the BP and Pulse down very low.Unfortunately, because of the big bad taboo on narcotics I got a snippy and horrible ER doctor recently who just decided that inspite of me having my medical records in hand! that I was just looking for demerol and so I suppose she just decided to teach me a drug lesson.Never mind that I arrived at the ER with HBP a raising pulse and left arm and jaw pain.Yes, all that and my 3x a day HBP meds on board too.So for the reason of how we get treated when we are in need I really try to avoid needing Demerol intervention simply because the alternatives for that help are simply so horrible for me.Hence I hate narcotics and all the trouble they cause me.On the plus side, I have now found a hospital that has me on record as being allergic to both Morphine and Dilauded.We moved over the summer and it has been difficult getting my needs medically established.I also finally lost patience with the Internal Medicine doctor who responed to my complaint of shoulder and jaw pain with telling me to see the dentist even though my pulse was up at 96 which for me always means trouble up ahead.I am starting with a cardiologist on friday.My thoughts on out of control pain are this,If you don't have a heart problem before the pain gets out of control, it might just be that you could develop a heart problem just from all the physical stress.At some point those fast pulses that arrive with pain can and do simply wear your heart out.....and kidneys and all those other organs......My heart and BP problems are hereditary.But I am no different than anyone who suffers from a raised pulse over an extended period of time.Fast pulses are simply bad news in the long runno matter how we come by them.The answer is effective preventative medicine in what ever form that may be.Kamie

 

[bkitts]

posted 10-23-2002 08:28 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------I got in a argument with the doctor. He said take your klonopin for another month, then come back and we'll see what to do. He made me mad cause he wanted to send me to a general surgeon for a second opinion. Says he's never dealt with this type pain. I've been to so many specialists and had so many tests, it's plain pitiful!!! So there's tension with this doctor. I don't know to swallow my pride and try to work myself in before a month, or start walking elsewhere. The doctor thing is soooo stinking horibble!!!--------------------Breck "Chronic Pain""His strength is made perfect in my weakness"

 

[Debbielee]

well Kitt--thats why we have a CP forum. There are good painmanagement docs out there. really there are.Kamie--i couldnt agree more.Chronic pain brings an awfull stress to the body.I am allergic to more than half of all opiads.But dont hate the opiads--instead hate the ignorance of some docs. Of corse ERs are the worst place to go.As a nurse i know that ER docs are on the look out for drug seekers simply because of the real druggies out there.The ER docs are the first hits for druggies.Thats why pain management can work as a prevention so one does not get out of control pain and end up with an unfeeling opiadphobic doc in an ER somewhere.Jeff has a good Chronic Pain forum at mediboard--would be good to have your input.www.mediboard.comDebbie

 

[kamie]

post:Thats why pain management can work as a prevention so one does not get out of control pain and end up with an unfeeling opiadphobic doc in an ER somewhere._______________________________________Yes, you are so right.Unfortunately I was in need of a little more than pain meds.My main complaint was my BP and Pulse and for some reason every ER I have been to with the exception of the one last week always decides that the demerol and phenegran are what I need to get my numbers low.They push that stuff in and my pulse comes down.before the hysterectomy I seemd to only need that about once a year.Since the hysterectomy I keep winding up at the ER for Bowel problems and BP problems.My BP and pulse are still high this week.What I need is good Pulse and BP control.KamieP.S. Today there is no pain.The BP and Pulse are high.It's hard to breathe and this tingling business is not too good.My family thinks I need to go to the ER again.I'm dragging my feet.We'll see.

 

[flux]

quote:I have been taking klonopin for the constant pain I've had for 6 years with IBS.

Please forgive my forgetfulness, but I thought you had just pain and not IBS?So Klonopin has helped?

quote:I took vicodin for 5 months last year

Did this help too? I would be surprised that narcotics would help with this type of pain, whatever that precisely is.So once again, I am forgetful..if you do indeed have idiopathic abdominal pain..where do these things stand against the pain...1) TENS unit2) hypnotherapy3) gabapentin (Neurontin)4) acupunctureFor a moment, I thought you meant that you had oxytocin, and not oxycontin. I almost thought you had a genius for a doctor! That is to say, oxytocin affects gut pain and so can a drug called octeotride. It makes sense to try these out. And last but not least have you tried either Zelnorm or Lotronex?

quote:Says he's never dealt with this type pain.

Good reason to dump him, methinks.

 

[bkitts]

Flux, I sent you a private email!!! My pain has gone from CFAP to Chronic Pelvic Pain which drove a uro nutts and then back to CFAP. I say CFAP because I don't have problems with any foods, drink, BM's don't make one difference. Just always a tightness, punched in the gutt at times feeling. My studies from UNC seem to fall in place with Chronic Functional Abdominal Pain. Of course, narcotics are not recommended. I know I depend on the klonopin now both emotionally and physicall, but it helps none. The pain produces the anxiety, then the depression. I do have Mike's tapes, and I need to start using them. I go to biofeedback also.

 

[vknight 226]

These messages have been so enlighting. I was first diagnoised last year with IBS. Then gall-baldder disease, which was removed. Ever since then IBS has totally taken over my life. I am a mid-life female going back to school and this got put on hold for 1.5 years, back toit now and miss at least on day every week or two. Have tried two GI's thought we were on to something a few months ago from alternative meds. then that seemed to fall through. Take hyocyamine daily along with Zantac and Claritin. I have C & P the pain is so bad the only thing I can compare it to is labor. My significant other is so worried about me, we want to find someone who understands this disease. Have asked doc for Valium for the attacks to relax me enough that the spasms subside they say "No", to addictive. So I suffer on. I realize I am not alone and do not mean to whine to you folks who have been suffering for years, but your experiences have been very helpful. I have resided myself at times to the rest of my life being this way. I am in counceling because on doc said it was all in my head, needless to say I don't see him anymore. I am concerned about what will happen when counceling sessions end. With all the flare ups I have had lately school next semester is questional due to long drive to school. I can relate to "punched in the gut" feeling I have had that so long it's like living with a chronic headache which I had done for years. One of the alternative practioner's I saw put me on Acidophillus, one put me on stress herb's. I have so many I am supposed to take each day that I can't take them all. When it comes to diet often junk food bothers me less, crazy huh. When things were at there worst I lost 30lbs. in 6 months, I had put 8 back on and now that is gone. I now weigh 100 pounds on a good day. I have battled high heart rate for over a year (100+) with low blood preasure (90's/50's or60's) as a rule. If anyone has suggestions I would greatly appreciate hearing them. Thank's for all the information you all share so freely.

 

[kamie]

POST: Have asked doc for Valium for the attacks to relax me enough that the spasms subside they say "No", to addictive. So I suffer on. I realize I am not alone and do not mean to whine to you folks who have been suffering for years, but your experiences have been very helpful. I have resided myself at times to the rest of my life being this way. ___________________________________________Well last night, instead of going to the ER I took some meds I have on hand and that helped to drop the pulse. I got my numbers down to 106 when I used the phenegran suppositories that had been given to me by the ER doctors last week.The Phenegran suppository helped enough that the bad worrisome feelings in my body quieted down and this AM the pulse is at 98. Still high but off 100 which for me is the world of difference. I have an appointment with the Cardiologist tomorrow so I think with the assistence of the phenegran that I can keep myself out of crisis until tomorrow.VK, I wanted to respond to a lot of things in your post.Are you currently on any meds for your pulse?It's my opinion that you may need to see a doctor who understands the meaning of your numbers.The pulse alone being up at 100 may or may not be significant because the real meaning of the standard numbers vary according to the individual and as to how long the pulse stays up over 100.However, 100 is the marking point where technical tachycardia begins and in specific sinus tachycardia.There are a number of reasons as to why a Pulse will go over 100.It could be anything from a food response to pain to hormones to problems with the heart that require medcation or surgery.And yes, if the pain is bad enough it will throw you into tachycardia.Unless the doctor is good at cardiac medicine you could wander around with a disaster pending.The key in understanding the reality of your BP and Pulse is in the precise tracking of events.Also, you mentioned that you have had a big drop in weight. That kind of drop accompanied by eating difficulties puts a huge stress on the heart.So there you might need a doctor who helps get the insides settled enough so you can eat better.Such as the gastroenterologistFor me the class of anti-spasmodics are one of my keys to handling that odd internal pain.I too have gotten that punched gut feeling.It turned out that I needed a hysterectomy.A lot of women say, oh it can't be menopause or my hormones or anything else often associated with the turn of life problems, because I;m not "menopausal" as in an age.However, there are a huge number of women who have those exact problem early in life.There are women in their 20's needing hysterectomies.Whether a woman choses a hysterectomy or the course of medications for dealing with pelvic problems is a personal choice that can only be made by a long and indepth talk with the doctor.So the addition of a gynecologist who might could run some hormone tests could be another direction to explore.If there is attending pelvic/abdominal pain, another reality might be adhesions or endometriosis. Unfortunately the occurance of pelvic/abdominal adhesions simply can not be seen on the standard imaging tests.They have to go in with a laproscope and take a look.Also, the occurance of endometriosis does not always show on the lab tests either.I had Endo and no one figured it out until the pathology reports came back with additional things like adenomyosis, a uterine fibroids and cysts.The occurance of female problems could defiantely throw your BP/Pulse numbers into orbit.You also mentioned taking Clariton. Clariton can make your BP go up and stay up.That's a rough call since ones sinus headaches might also be so painful that you'd arrive at the same place of an elevated Pulse but for two totally different reasons.The occurance of Allergies is also linked with excess or unopposed Estrogen in the body.there are hormonal medications for the woman who are having this problem but hormones are some trickystuff and unless you find a doctor who is good with the specifications of hormones, such as a reproductive endocinoloist, hormone therapy can be a nightmare.Actually my Allergies were resolved by the removal of one of my ovaries.Poof...gone.I only need 1 benedryl and a couple of asprin now when I get a sinus headache. and even the mild sinus headache is only active sometimes when a storm blows in.It is really unfortunate that these problems often remain hidden in a womans life because they are hard to diagnose until one day the pain gets so bad you go find a surgeon and tell them to just yank all the innards out.The presence of Endometriosis and pelvic adhesions attached to the outside of the colon do indeed make chaos with the gut.My diagnosis written on my medical records states that my intestinal and bowel troubles are due to the presence of external adhesions. We are still not sure if all the endo is gone either because I just got an imaging test that has a question about an endometria that was not there at the time of my surgery.This one would be a tumor like mass that does show up with imaging unlike the endometrial implant that often remains hidden.so there are so very many variables that you really might need the opinions of a couple of specialists to find your source.So you see, this woman thing and hormones can be a big factor in a woman symptoms and pain.Unfortunately the diagnosis process is one that is often confusing and difficult.I hope this information has been of some help.Kamie