[rachelclare]

Mike, in my last posting I mentioned various bits re taking your advice (I think you ignored me - all that sun and sand - I don't blame you). would you have a quick read as I am torn between sending for VSL or Ibsacol first (today is not a good day). I seem to remember you recommending Ibsacol to me before but can't find thread or remember specifically why you felt ibsacol was suited to me - its just so much money if it is crapp and of course so cheap if it works.I wait with bated breath.

 

[ohnometo]

Hi thereI am sure he isn't just ignoring you ...he usually comes to check the board in the morning...very busy person...I am sure he will see your question.?Hope ya fell better

ps ....It sure has help me working with LeapAllergy and Mike

 

[ohnometo]

Hi thereI am sure he isn't just ignoring you ...he usually comes to check the board in the morning...very busy person...I am sure he will see your question.?Hope ya fell better

ps ....It sure has help me working with LeapAllergy and Mike

 

[wanderingstar]

Take a look at the products forum for threads on Ibsacol, and also www.ibsacol.com until MikeNoLomotil gets back to you.

 

[wanderingstar]

Take a look at the products forum for threads on Ibsacol, and also www.ibsacol.com until MikeNoLomotil gets back to you.

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

Hi rachel.I am sorry I do not mean to ignore anyone...I let too many people off for vacation over the holidays and have been so busy I have not been able to spend much time "on board(s)" so to speak and probably missed or forgot many questions and posts. My apologies please

NOW I am so loaded with Vicodin today my brains are scrambled...had to go to the oral surgeon suddenly last night....

so I been begging off on threads all morning....Let me see if I have any brain cells working, if not I promise to come back and do whatever you ask as soon as I do...now what was the question... lessee...now I really do not at this time have any short term memory functioning much less what we may have talked about some days before...can you give me the url of the thread so I can pick it up again?IF I recommended IBSACOL for you it would have been becasue I felt your symptom set and history were consistent with a person who could potentially benefit from the immunomodulating effects of the long-chain fatty acids in the formulation. if there was any suggestion of serious dysbiosis, though, would recommend taking a broad-spectrum probiotic first since immunomodulation can be a little tricky if there is bacterial overgrowth (pathogenic or imbalance of normal flora). Just exaclty how much immunomodulation is too much in the presence of cell-wall instability vs. presence of pathogen such that you could cause immunoSUPRESSION I think has only been fooled around with in vitro, and not under conditions which mimic the gut immune system.However, a d-type or cyclic with well-established symptom sets of this type without a history of pathogenic "invasion" of the gut would be someone who has a better than even chance of gaining some additional oral tolerance froma preparation like IBSACOL.Does that at all bear any resemblance to what we were talking about?

Sorry I am in such a vacuum today....I'll be back when I am a normal person again. Well, relatively speaking...if we wait for me to become a normal person, well, the buzzards may return to Hinckley first. (**Obscure reference for Northern Ohioans)

Later my Taters MNL

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

Hi rachel.I am sorry I do not mean to ignore anyone...I let too many people off for vacation over the holidays and have been so busy I have not been able to spend much time "on board(s)" so to speak and probably missed or forgot many questions and posts. My apologies please

NOW I am so loaded with Vicodin today my brains are scrambled...had to go to the oral surgeon suddenly last night....

so I been begging off on threads all morning....Let me see if I have any brain cells working, if not I promise to come back and do whatever you ask as soon as I do...now what was the question... lessee...now I really do not at this time have any short term memory functioning much less what we may have talked about some days before...can you give me the url of the thread so I can pick it up again?IF I recommended IBSACOL for you it would have been becasue I felt your symptom set and history were consistent with a person who could potentially benefit from the immunomodulating effects of the long-chain fatty acids in the formulation. if there was any suggestion of serious dysbiosis, though, would recommend taking a broad-spectrum probiotic first since immunomodulation can be a little tricky if there is bacterial overgrowth (pathogenic or imbalance of normal flora). Just exaclty how much immunomodulation is too much in the presence of cell-wall instability vs. presence of pathogen such that you could cause immunoSUPRESSION I think has only been fooled around with in vitro, and not under conditions which mimic the gut immune system.However, a d-type or cyclic with well-established symptom sets of this type without a history of pathogenic "invasion" of the gut would be someone who has a better than even chance of gaining some additional oral tolerance froma preparation like IBSACOL.Does that at all bear any resemblance to what we were talking about?

Sorry I am in such a vacuum today....I'll be back when I am a normal person again. Well, relatively speaking...if we wait for me to become a normal person, well, the buzzards may return to Hinckley first. (**Obscure reference for Northern Ohioans)

Later my Taters MNL

 

[rachelclare]

Woah are you really clever, am I really dumb or do you make it up. I feel rather blonde and bimboish! Smaller words please. "dysbiosis"?????? So basically can only be beneficial to take probiotic? have had no reply about getting VSL3 shipped or pricing or availability but Kmottus kindly gave a list of contents so at worst I shall try and find a UK equiv if at all possible and do that anyway but yes re symptoms (d and I think cyclic although also affected sometimes by food but almost gone for about two weeks but returned on day 12 of my cycle (yesterday))- I HATE THIS SO MUCH as the song says. Couldn't find a constant thread on how wonderful Ibsacol is so will have to trust your judgement before I go mad or my husband and children leave me due to my obsession with bowel area - am I painting an attractive picture or what. Still waiting for Amazon to deliver book you recommended see earlier thread to you and Kmottus. I assume Vicodin is a legal drug!!!!!!! - just kidding.

 

[rachelclare]

Woah are you really clever, am I really dumb or do you make it up. I feel rather blonde and bimboish! Smaller words please. "dysbiosis"?????? So basically can only be beneficial to take probiotic? have had no reply about getting VSL3 shipped or pricing or availability but Kmottus kindly gave a list of contents so at worst I shall try and find a UK equiv if at all possible and do that anyway but yes re symptoms (d and I think cyclic although also affected sometimes by food but almost gone for about two weeks but returned on day 12 of my cycle (yesterday))- I HATE THIS SO MUCH as the song says. Couldn't find a constant thread on how wonderful Ibsacol is so will have to trust your judgement before I go mad or my husband and children leave me due to my obsession with bowel area - am I painting an attractive picture or what. Still waiting for Amazon to deliver book you recommended see earlier thread to you and Kmottus. I assume Vicodin is a legal drug!!!!!!! - just kidding.

 

[rachelclare]

Also, another blonde dim question - how do I give you the URL of my thread - was trying to find it to copy but am having trouble doing that - if I had a brain I would be dangerous. I am also often referred to the products forum but when I go to what I think the products forum is it doesn't seem to correlate? I expect I am being really dim but hey? Sorry you have had dental problems - hope you feel better. I am forever losing what I have posted and am sure I am wasting peoples time asking the same questions again. I see (in what I think is the products forum) another product that sounds like it does the same thing? Bowelsoothe? I am still using the Psyllium drink (I have taken calcium all along (caltrate) but sadly that seems to do nothing for me at all)to help with the d, which it does although a few days off and things deteriorate. If I take it when things are going well though it seems to start up mild gas problems? should I be expecting to take roughage drinks forever? occasionally, only when things get bad, it seems to be a constant juggling trick. I think I eat so much that I can never truly work out the problem - then some months it seems to be clearly hormonal - oh I don't know.Sometimes my own stupidity amazes me - I know fish causes a problem and then I eat a mouthful of fish or use sauces with fish in and wonder why I suffer. I sometimes can't work out what the hell it is causing a particular attack, I suppose if I don't know how the hell will anyone else.Many thanks for your patience with me as always.Rachel.

 

[rachelclare]

Also, another blonde dim question - how do I give you the URL of my thread - was trying to find it to copy but am having trouble doing that - if I had a brain I would be dangerous. I am also often referred to the products forum but when I go to what I think the products forum is it doesn't seem to correlate? I expect I am being really dim but hey? Sorry you have had dental problems - hope you feel better. I am forever losing what I have posted and am sure I am wasting peoples time asking the same questions again. I see (in what I think is the products forum) another product that sounds like it does the same thing? Bowelsoothe? I am still using the Psyllium drink (I have taken calcium all along (caltrate) but sadly that seems to do nothing for me at all)to help with the d, which it does although a few days off and things deteriorate. If I take it when things are going well though it seems to start up mild gas problems? should I be expecting to take roughage drinks forever? occasionally, only when things get bad, it seems to be a constant juggling trick. I think I eat so much that I can never truly work out the problem - then some months it seems to be clearly hormonal - oh I don't know.Sometimes my own stupidity amazes me - I know fish causes a problem and then I eat a mouthful of fish or use sauces with fish in and wonder why I suffer. I sometimes can't work out what the hell it is causing a particular attack, I suppose if I don't know how the hell will anyone else.Many thanks for your patience with me as always.Rachel.

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

HI RAQUEL...

Hey stop with the "Gee I am dumb" stuff....if you don't understand what someone wrote it means they suck as a teacher.One thing that can help with the last question about figuring out offending foods is to look at what I posted this mrning on this thread for someone else: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic&f=1&t=025281 Number 2 dysbiosis is just an easy quickie word which is very general...any disruption of the normal balance of the bacteria in your GI tract (the helpful bacteria which are normal residents which you developed when you were a lil tyke) whether it is an imbalance among the "good" population OR the introduction of a pathogen (disease maker) can be inlcuded in that general term.here are some links to stuff explaining the flora and how it develops-------------------------- http://www.gsbs.utmb.edu/microbook/ch006.htm http://www.ccfa.org/weekly/previous/wkly0723.htm http://www4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/En...83059595&Dopt=r http://www4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/En...81119781&Dopt=r _______________ So what I menat to say was if you have a history which suggests that your IBS-d onset follows a gut-related inflammatory event OR antibiotic therapy, the possibility is that your loss of oral tolerance, as evidenced by your d-type symptoms, may be reversible as opposed to "attenuatable" (dimming it down with something like IBSACOL).If there is an imbalance of the flora OR a pathogen actually present, it is as yet unclear if slowing down immunocyte reactivity, while producing some short term relief from the food reactivity resulting from the dysbiosis, might in the mid term have an undesirable effect of also reducing the immune systems ability to "manage" or "contain" the bacterial overgrowth.This being so new this is one question no one can answer except to say approach THIS history with caution when it comes to immunomodulation of any kind. Better to try a broad spectrum probiotic first and see what happens. Sometimes the sound of a barking dog is indicative of a dog which should be approached with caution.BUT if you have no history of IBS onset after a big ol gut infection or a bunmch of antibiotics being given for something then there is no obvious red-flag and you can try IBSACOL for your D and see how you do.My observation is that the numbers are similar to other results...2/3 or more experience some positive benefits. Do I make sense yet?MNL

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

HI RAQUEL...

Hey stop with the "Gee I am dumb" stuff....if you don't understand what someone wrote it means they suck as a teacher.One thing that can help with the last question about figuring out offending foods is to look at what I posted this mrning on this thread for someone else: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic&f=1&t=025281 Number 2 dysbiosis is just an easy quickie word which is very general...any disruption of the normal balance of the bacteria in your GI tract (the helpful bacteria which are normal residents which you developed when you were a lil tyke) whether it is an imbalance among the "good" population OR the introduction of a pathogen (disease maker) can be inlcuded in that general term.here are some links to stuff explaining the flora and how it develops-------------------------- http://www.gsbs.utmb.edu/microbook/ch006.htm http://www.ccfa.org/weekly/previous/wkly0723.htm http://www4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/En...83059595&Dopt=r http://www4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/En...81119781&Dopt=r _______________ So what I menat to say was if you have a history which suggests that your IBS-d onset follows a gut-related inflammatory event OR antibiotic therapy, the possibility is that your loss of oral tolerance, as evidenced by your d-type symptoms, may be reversible as opposed to "attenuatable" (dimming it down with something like IBSACOL).If there is an imbalance of the flora OR a pathogen actually present, it is as yet unclear if slowing down immunocyte reactivity, while producing some short term relief from the food reactivity resulting from the dysbiosis, might in the mid term have an undesirable effect of also reducing the immune systems ability to "manage" or "contain" the bacterial overgrowth.This being so new this is one question no one can answer except to say approach THIS history with caution when it comes to immunomodulation of any kind. Better to try a broad spectrum probiotic first and see what happens. Sometimes the sound of a barking dog is indicative of a dog which should be approached with caution.BUT if you have no history of IBS onset after a big ol gut infection or a bunmch of antibiotics being given for something then there is no obvious red-flag and you can try IBSACOL for your D and see how you do.My observation is that the numbers are similar to other results...2/3 or more experience some positive benefits. Do I make sense yet?MNL

 

[rachelclare]

Yes Lots of sense. Particularly helpful is the first URL.Feb 2001 came to Florida was given antibiotics by US doctor. This was just for a flu infection but when I later told the UK Drs what we had been given (cos it worked so well) they were horrified and told me they reserved that anitbiotic for superbugs (sorry if I am repeating myself here - not sure if you read earlier thread). I assume this wouldn't be what you are talking about re antibiotics affecting gut flora?? I assume you mean some more dramatic infection than flu. Its just that if UK Drs had never given me this antib. then it may have caused a problem. I was however already back on the BC pill because of stomach cramps at certain times in the month (mainly ovulation). My IBS did really kick off this summer though - would timing be right for antibiotics given in Feb??Last dose of Amoxycillin made wonderful difference and improvement though??I think the long and short of it is that I should try probiotics first. I have still no response from VSL3 people - do you have any contacts re probiotics of high quality in UK?Then consider Ibsacol - right?Many thanks for all your time and help.

 

[rachelclare]

Yes Lots of sense. Particularly helpful is the first URL.Feb 2001 came to Florida was given antibiotics by US doctor. This was just for a flu infection but when I later told the UK Drs what we had been given (cos it worked so well) they were horrified and told me they reserved that anitbiotic for superbugs (sorry if I am repeating myself here - not sure if you read earlier thread). I assume this wouldn't be what you are talking about re antibiotics affecting gut flora?? I assume you mean some more dramatic infection than flu. Its just that if UK Drs had never given me this antib. then it may have caused a problem. I was however already back on the BC pill because of stomach cramps at certain times in the month (mainly ovulation). My IBS did really kick off this summer though - would timing be right for antibiotics given in Feb??Last dose of Amoxycillin made wonderful difference and improvement though??I think the long and short of it is that I should try probiotics first. I have still no response from VSL3 people - do you have any contacts re probiotics of high quality in UK?Then consider Ibsacol - right?Many thanks for all your time and help.

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

yeah I am real cautious about IBS onset after antibiotic therapy. Esp. if the person gets a subsequent course, feels temporary remission and then the symptoms return again [assuming that the person never changed their diet a wit during any of these phases].If you did not here back from the company then there is a message there about their committment to customer service...which is a reflection of the committment to the product...sort of self-disqualifying.I would suggest (I wish I had the time to do this myself yet keep putting it off) looking into Flora Source, if only becaseu of the list of live-strains. It is one of the most diverse, thus iely to be helpful...assuming there is no misrepresentation about the contents (thety are indeed there, alive, and free from contaminants). http://www.merc-buyers.com/FLORASOURCE_GROUP.htm I need to get some and have the "research guys" grow out the cultures to see if they are live and to burn the stuff to check for ingredients...time and money and more no time than anuthing else right now.BUT this one at least is the picture of what I personally beleive the best OTC way to probiotic therapy to be right now.I am sure they ship to the UK...you may wsih to cintact them and ask for documentation of claims first. Let me know what you get when you contact them (see how I am cheating by asking you to do my work?

)MNL

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

yeah I am real cautious about IBS onset after antibiotic therapy. Esp. if the person gets a subsequent course, feels temporary remission and then the symptoms return again [assuming that the person never changed their diet a wit during any of these phases].If you did not here back from the company then there is a message there about their committment to customer service...which is a reflection of the committment to the product...sort of self-disqualifying.I would suggest (I wish I had the time to do this myself yet keep putting it off) looking into Flora Source, if only becaseu of the list of live-strains. It is one of the most diverse, thus iely to be helpful...assuming there is no misrepresentation about the contents (thety are indeed there, alive, and free from contaminants). http://www.merc-buyers.com/FLORASOURCE_GROUP.htm I need to get some and have the "research guys" grow out the cultures to see if they are live and to burn the stuff to check for ingredients...time and money and more no time than anuthing else right now.BUT this one at least is the picture of what I personally beleive the best OTC way to probiotic therapy to be right now.I am sure they ship to the UK...you may wsih to cintact them and ask for documentation of claims first. Let me know what you get when you contact them (see how I am cheating by asking you to do my work?

)MNL

 

[dianne]

Rachelclare ... just back in from sun and sand holiday myself and caught your thread today.We have many customers whose IBS began with antibiotics and ended with Ibsacol. Sadly most of the real success stories stop posting here once they get really well once again. Anyway .. please email me for more info if you would like it. Mike is absolutely right in everything he says ... but for many, Ibsacol simply works even if the IBS started, or seemed to start, with anti-biotics. Hi Mike ... hope the tooth fairy waves her wand and stops your pain ... I'll call you soon ...Kind wishes to you all for 2002DianneFor the record, I am director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol.

 

[dianne]

Rachelclare ... just back in from sun and sand holiday myself and caught your thread today.We have many customers whose IBS began with antibiotics and ended with Ibsacol. Sadly most of the real success stories stop posting here once they get really well once again. Anyway .. please email me for more info if you would like it. Mike is absolutely right in everything he says ... but for many, Ibsacol simply works even if the IBS started, or seemed to start, with anti-biotics. Hi Mike ... hope the tooth fairy waves her wand and stops your pain ... I'll call you soon ...Kind wishes to you all for 2002DianneFor the record, I am director of the New Zealand company that developed and produces Ibsacol.

 

[rachelclare]

Mike - Flora Source looks good but costs 45 dollars just to ship to UK and you have to order minimum of 55 dollars worth of products - will have to look harder in UK - perhaps I will post a request for any info in UK.Happy to try out anything for ya - but can't quite afford this one. Hopefully there is an equivalent product. A few people are making positive noises re slippery Elm bark supplements? Any experiences of this you know of?R.