Irritable Bowel Syndrome and Digestive Health Support Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This new collaborative investigation between the Swedish group that has been studying and investigating the role of small bowel food reactivity in functional bowel disease for the last 5-6 years and Harvard University investigators was just published in the Scandinavian Journal Of Immunology in December.The findings are intriguing for people who remain reactive to dairy products in spite of avoiding milk sugars (lactose) thus ruling out lactase deficiency as a problem.In accordance with the Rules of the Board it is Posted in the NEWS AND ABSTRACTS section at: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000253.html Interesting continuation of a line of investigation not being followed in North America in the context of reactive bowel disorders.have a MFDMNL________________ www.leapallergy.com PSHow did I manage to put an E on SENSITIVITY in the title instead of a Y? They are not even close on the keyboard? OY![This message has been edited by Mike NoLomotil (edited 02-04-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
PS TO ALL THE EMAIL SENDERS TODAY:My email server has crashed and I cannot reply to what I have already nor receive any more being sent. Sorry I am not ignoring you.Gotta go babysit...I am sure I will be able to answer tomorrow.Thanks I am not ignoring youMNL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,955 Posts
Question. Not being followed in North America?? Has Harvard moved?? an earlier statment made it sound like they were colaborating on this?? or have they decided to pull out and never work on it again after publishing a paper on it??FWIW, just because it is published in a European Journal doesn't mean that NO ONE in North America will read it or pay attention to it. There are damn fine journals on both sides of the pond just as there are a number of lousy ones on both sides of the pond. In some fields the TOP journal is Europe based and no one in the field would think of avoiding the journal just because of where it was published.Are there some tendancies to americo-centrism in science (and also euro-centrism on the other side) absolutely, but it isn't as severe a myopia as you repeatedly seem to claim that it is.K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.And from the as if IBS isn't enough of a worry file...from New Scientist's Feedback column: photographed on the door of a ladies' loo in the Sequoia National Park in California by reader Liz Masterman: "Please keep door closed to discourage bears from entering."[This message has been edited by kmottus (edited 02-04-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
SpecialK:I see you do not differentiate hyperbolic use of pronouns as an illustrative device, from the absolute.I posted it (this study) so that does suggest I am possibly aware of the breadth of study on the effects of food and chemicals in digestive disease. The aberrant immunologic basis of food and chemical intolerance work is definitely Eurocentric, while the pharmaceutical-interventional approach is definitely Americo-centric. But I apologize for the use of hyperbole as an illustrative device if it offendeth thee.As you I am certain know the word "nobody" is hyperbolic and intended as such. If I meant "nobody" in the literal sense then I would have to ignore the work of the immunologists and gastroeneterologists and others I know, including Pasula whom I work with directly, for 25 years, and others on our shores.This is one of the first, if not the first, collaboarative effort between Bengtssons group (whose work has been reported and followed at least 6 years back, with 2 sepaartes groups during that time, maybe more, I recall). Stefanini's group at the University Of Bolgna has been studying food reactivity and immune response in functional bowel and other disorders for over a decade. I do not recall a collaboration yet between them and an American University. I may have missed it. However, Brostoff has collaborated with Pasula and Sandberg since 1987 I believe...and Fell collaborated in the development of the original ALCAT method for over ten years...etc. he continues to do so with AMTL Corp. and also has published a book on Food Intolerance in some degree of collaboration with AMTL's associate American practitioners.K, I will be absolutely certain in the future to be Very Specific with my pronoun useage, as I it apears to irritates you to a great degree.By the way, this does not alter the fact that the myopia exists and has existed for almost 3 deacades. I am always glad to see every new instance of change for the sake of the patients who will benefit.MNL_______________ www.leapallergy.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,955 Posts
Hey MikeNLDecided to do a walk around Medline and look at the whole drug=america food intolerance=Europe thing and see how it panned out.Did Medline searches and if there were too many articles I did a limit to 1998-2001 and then looked at the first so many articles and recorded the author and journal locations. Canada, US and Puerto Rico were counted as NA (north american) England, Contintental European nations and Russia were counted as Europe (EU). Other included South Africa, Australia, Brazil and Isreal (O)Since MRT is too new to have much of a Medline record I didn't look at that.ALCAT 7 article 6 used (I didn't include any letters, or anonymous's)Journal 5 EU 1 OAuthor 4 EU 1 NA 1 OFood intolerances (limited to 1998 51 found 15 included--I had to exclude a number of things that weren't that related, like epilepsy and food and things like that, and I stopped after awhile...started at the top and worked down once I had like 10 in any group I stopped).Journal 10 EU 4 NA 1 OAuthor 9 EU 3 NA 3 OSo that is tending to be on the other side of the pond, but not exclusively on the other side of the pond.So then I looked at drug and neurobiological approaches that were non-drug (ie hypno and CBT)Hypno CBT 26 found 18 included---Journal 10 EU 7 NA 1 OAuthor 9 EU 7 NA 2 OSo pretty evenly split on each side of the pond.Drug and IBS. Several of these were reviews, a few clinical trials.Journal 9 EU 5 NA 0 OAuthor 10 EU 3 NA 1 OSo it seems like there are a fair amount of research into both the neurobiological and drug approach in Europe/England.I'll give you that there isn't as much research on food intolerances and especially the approach you and the people you work with are taking in the US, but it is not just a North American thing to be looking for drugs or at the neurobiological underpinnings of IBS.K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.And from the as if IBS isn't enough of a worry file...from New Scientist's Feedback column: photographed on the door of a ladies' loo in the Sequoia National Park in California by reader Liz Masterman: "Please keep door closed to discourage bears from entering."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,172 Posts
Sheesh i wanted to read this,so i looked in and decided to go read elsewhere before i get my nose snipped in a crab's claw! LOL<joke>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,955 Posts
Sorry, sometimes someone says something that makes me wonder. I have been programmed from more years of graduate school than is good for anybody to check out these little wonderings, and I like to share what I found.People who strongly voice certain convictions and opinions tend to be more likely to make me wonder. Although much of my wondering does seem to bother MikeNL... I don't have a vendetta against him or anything, he just expresses alot of opinions, some of which make me wonder.K.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.And from the as if IBS isn't enough of a worry file...from New Scientist's Feedback column: photographed on the door of a ladies' loo in the Sequoia National Park in California by reader Liz Masterman: "Please keep door closed to discourage bears from entering."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
quote:people who strongly voice certain convictions and opinions tend to be more likely to make me wonder.
Christmas, the way "some" people go off on Candida, or Colloidal Silver, you do sometimes have to question the motives.[This message has been edited by NickT (edited 02-05-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi K:"People who strongly voice certain convictions and opinions tend to be more likely to make me wonder."(Likewise. There's a lot of that going 'round.) "Although much of my wondering does seem to bother MikeNL:"Wondering does not bother me. Wonder is the precursor of enlightenment. Rapping my knuckles unnecesserily bothers me. And those who attribute sinister motives to me simply "protesteth too much". I do not think you personally yet attribute sinister motives to me, but you have a wooden ruler. I prefer plastic.I have made over 2000 posts on the Board. I do not think you will find me flaming anyone. And not in one of them have I knowingly stated something false, especially regarding that which affects the care of the sick, and which I have been privileged to observe and be part of in the quest for prophylaxis for food reactive people, with which this community is well endowed. There are many unattractive truths about the realities of medical developmental work and the rendering of care that I have experienced in the last 30 years "at the bedside" so to speak, which I do not share, which form may perspective, as yours, K, is formed by your experiences in the halls of academe.I do speak with conviction. But the conviction borne of that which I know to be be true. That which I have been shown via my own peepers by competent physicians and investigators expert in their own field. And sometimes there are things which others have not seen, or have not read or studied, so this makes them uncomfortable and I understand that. But to dismiss out of hand that which one has not seen as blasphemous, well, George Bernard Shaw was right when he said "All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies". I have seen this happen many times from the vantage point of ground zero.And there is a lot about the conditions the people who populate this community suffer which remains unclear, yet is claimed to be clear, or is treated as if it were conclusive and inclusibve when it is not. And there are things which have been seen by some clearly which have not yet been made clear to the many. Such is the nature of forward motion in medical arts. The wheels turn at differing speeds sometimes, and in a vacuum from others.However, When they are finally joined, understanding and effectivenss move up a notch. And there are many notches yet for the people here and elsewhere who suffer form these symptoms. Jeez, I sound like freakin Emeril.So, finish it like Emeril..that's the "essence" of it. I truly beleive, like so many other developments I have witnessed with other diseases, a great advance in understanding will come soon, but not just interventionally.have a DFDMNL________________ www.leapallergy.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,955 Posts
Fine, I shall never ever questions a single one of your assumptions ever again.I am not questioning your motives, I do question your "truth". None of us has access to the Truth and I'm sorry if I ever upset you or anyone else at anytime for ever questioning a single one of your assumptions.K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
kmottus;FWIW, you have never offended me !I enjoy a good spirited debate. Debate stimulates thinking, and questioning. You two guys have really generated some good questions under your threads.kmottus, please don't throw down ul-tomatoes. Your hot, your passionate, your letting your emotions control you, instead of vice versa. What the hell would Spock think?Take a breath bud, you're starting to see conflict where none exists. We are not against you here, we are not your enemy.Unfortueately our condition can lead to people lashing out at the very people they are closest to. I (and maybe a few others) understand this. Stay with us, and help us fight the good fight to get to the Truth.[This message has been edited by NickT (edited 02-05-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,955 Posts
Hey Nick-Thanks for the vote of confidence!!I'm not leaving the board, I'm just stepping out of the debate with Mike NL for the forseeable future.<cue "Gambler">you gotta know when hold 'em know when to fold 'emknow when to walk awayand know when to runK.------------------I have no financial, academic, or any other stake in any commercial product mentioned by me.And from the as if IBS isn't enough of a worry file...from New Scientist's Feedback column: photographed on the door of a ladies' loo in the Sequoia National Park in California by reader Liz Masterman: "Please keep door closed to discourage bears from entering."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
SpecialK:I know you said you don't wanna talk no mo', but I do not know if that is best. I will "make my case" and you, I know, will do as you see fit.In response to..."I do question your 'truth'. None of us has access to the Truth and I'm sorry if I ever upset you or anyone else at anytime for ever questioning a single one of your assumptions." Who claims to have access to some infernal Single Truth? I see too many people claiming their perspective is "The Truth" when in fact it is clearly but a part if one steps back fully and "absorbs" the collective information that is is PARTS of 'The Great Truth'...I think I said that several ways, otherwise why I personally be a avid proponent of Integrated Disease Management in these conditions discussed on this Board or any other condition?My "truths" are merely that what I post is only posted because I know it to be true having witnessed the evidence or seen "the events portayed" confirmed by competent practitoners. I think I separate the "what we know" from "what we think" and "what we don't know" of the practitioners I know fairly consistently when it comes to the actual discussion of disease processes and disease managment.While I recognize you have sworn off future interplay, I do feel compelled to try to clarify again more succinctly what I said....I did not say, and you do NOT, upset me for "questioning" or "debating". I was on the debate team too, once upon a time in my ancient past. If it was too muich a hassel why would I "engage"?But when it seems someone is "berating" me for something I, like anyone, will react to it. I do not set out to berate people until berated. So when one feels he/she is being berated one responds in kind. You are reacting in kind, no? So as "people" per se, we all behave in like fashion more or less.jeez, I sound like I am talking with my brother "you started it no you started it no you did"...until Mom comes with the "Board Of Education" to settle it, or one or the other takes their ball and goes home.(SIDEBAR: The interesting part to me is the whole "original" debate did not get sidetracked by your last posts to me but other posts which were inserted in a particular thread I thought up to that point was going somehwere useful and stimulating. it got knocked off track, not by you.).So I beleive all I ask(ed) is/was let us not berate each other. I understand where you are coming from, I am familiar with the work done at that center. I am must convey what I have been taught as well from others whose work is complimentary, and what I have seen or read from elsewhere as they are, again, I beleive complimentary if viewed as such. Sometimes people tend to see work on functional bowel disease (or any disease for that matter...I saw it enough during the 70's and 80's in pulmonary disease) from different perspectives as being mutually exclusive. I do not beleive it should be this way. This at times seems to incense people into confrontation. This is unnecessary.All perspectives have equal validity and the resulting findings are part of the big-picture. If there is any TRUTH to which I subscribe let it be said that it is: _______________________**The full integration of knowledge of psych-neuro-immune interraction in the overall analysis and care of functional bowel disorders should be the goal, and the implementation of all efficacious diagnostic and therapeutic modalities integrated for the maximum benefit of the patient.** _______________________I did not ask nor do I expect you to refrain from discussion. If you choose to, OK, that is your privilege. I'll respect that. I just don't think we need to operate at that level. Anyway, got a "fish to fry" at what we call "work" so gotta run anyway.Besides...finish the quote and reconsider:"Never count your money while your playing at the table, they'll be time enough for counting, when the dealings done."Have a DFD, Gambler.MNL______________ www.leapallergy.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
446 Posts
Thought For Today: "If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind." - John Stuart Mill,English philosopher (1806-1873).On an upper note if weren't for disagreements we'd all would still be in the dark ages when it came to treatment for IBS.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top