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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Mike,I have two more for you.
Can you tell me what foods cross react to mold allergy? I looked in Dr. Brostoff's book, but it only lists pollens. Today was damp and chilly, and my stomach acted up all day, as well as my allergies. In light of what I learned from you, can you tell me how to manage this?After nearly 3 months with no work and the previous 2 months taking classes, I started a temp job this week. Today while my tummy was acting up I remembered I've always had trouble with my tummy going into spasms when I eat before work. In the past I've tried not eating, but then I get spasms and feel weak about 2 to 3 hours later - just when I'm at work and supposed to be working, not eating. This is not a problem when I can take my time getting up and eating, it's bad on workdays. Also in the past I've tried eating different things for breakfast as well as different sources of caffeine. Taking metamucil as soon as I got up and eating breakfast after I got to work worked pretty well, but I don't take metamucil anymore since I started eating more oatmeal bread. Coffee definitely makes it worse, but I can't discern any pattern to tea. Do you think I should repeat any of these tests now that I know my food intolerances? Or can you suggest another way to manage it? The best I can think of is to take an anti-spasmodic with breakfast. When I go to the store this weekend I'll get some peppermint oil capsules, I prefer that to bentyl because it tends to cause C and I don't like being dependent on drugs. I really want my body to function normally - probably just a dream, but I keep trying.I'm also more in need of caffeine since I started working again
it's data entry and sometimes it's such a struggle to stay awake! Oddly enough the diet coke and tea I've had both seemed to help my stomach until today.Thanks Mike
 

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Hi Julia....Sorry I missed ya. I stopped in for my morning visit (only got about an hour a day these days) and got sidetracked on a real interesting post TR made...ended up writing a diatribe on the subject: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic&f=1&t=024855 and ate up all my time for now. Wish my 2 fingers worked faster.I will be back as soon as I can and go through your questions one by one and convey as mush as I can, or give you a reference.Stand by I gotta run as I am a little late fora pow-wow.B-back honest!
MNL
 

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Hi Julia....Sorry I missed ya. I stopped in for my morning visit (only got about an hour a day these days) and got sidetracked on a real interesting post TR made...ended up writing a diatribe on the subject: http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic&f=1&t=024855 and ate up all my time for now. Wish my 2 fingers worked faster.I will be back as soon as I can and go through your questions one by one and convey as mush as I can, or give you a reference.Stand by I gotta run as I am a little late fora pow-wow.B-back honest!
MNL
 

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Julia-- I have always had allergies to molds since a little kid. Now, at 68 it's gone except food molds which I get when eat blue, roquefort or stilton cheeses. These create big time ibs-d. Lotronex eliminated this problem. Probably there are other foods which contain mold. Bill
 

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Julia-- I have always had allergies to molds since a little kid. Now, at 68 it's gone except food molds which I get when eat blue, roquefort or stilton cheeses. These create big time ibs-d. Lotronex eliminated this problem. Probably there are other foods which contain mold. Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Mike! I'll look forward to it.
Bill, you could stop eating those cheeses. There are plenty of others. I promise you'll lose your taste for them in less than a month. Have you ever tried cotswold? It's cheddar with chives and onion from England...yum...but I think mold is used in all cheeses (I know they're all prone to growing mold, I worked in a cheese shop), it would probably be best for you to avoid all of them. I gave up dairy and it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks Mike! I'll look forward to it.
Bill, you could stop eating those cheeses. There are plenty of others. I promise you'll lose your taste for them in less than a month. Have you ever tried cotswold? It's cheddar with chives and onion from England...yum...but I think mold is used in all cheeses (I know they're all prone to growing mold, I worked in a cheese shop), it would probably be best for you to avoid all of them. I gave up dairy and it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be.
 

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HI JULIASEBENUNDDREISICH...Ok got a few minutes of quiet now let us see what your questions are: ___________________________________1. "Can you tell me what foods cross react to mold allergy?"qualifying quote: "Today was damp and chilly, and my stomach acted up all day, as well as my allergies. In light of what I learned from you, can you tell me how to manage this?" ___________________________________I don't know
! Maybe.The "standard bearer" among all books on food allergy and intolerance is a 1,032 page tome compiled and published in (4) languages by Brostoff and Challacombe over 10 years ago as a training and reference guide for doctors. About 50 other allergists and immunolgists contributed to this book which exceeds the content of Brostoff's "consumer guide" which you have and we usually refer to by at least tenfold. A new edition is in editing right now to bring this older book up to date refelcting all the newest info on the subject that has been discovered in the last decade.Even this book does not have any clear reference or guide which will make answering this question easy. There are several places I may be able to get a clear answer for you but I need to know which molds you were tested for, which ones were test positive, and by which kind of test specifically. Then, if I cannot find the answer, I will send your test results to Professor Brostoff, confess my igonorance, and beg for enlightenment
.In the meantime if you are certain you do have actual mold allergy (not some animal dander or dust mites which can act like mold reactivity) you can read the guidelines on how to manage it in your envirobment on page 92 of the book you have. _____________________________2. [all of paragraph 2] _____________________________First, do not just accept some peoples' pat answer to such a symptom set, when they just basically say you have to write it off as "oh everyones GI tract is more sensitive in the morning and IBS patients suffer an exaggerated gastrocolonic reflex, and even the migrating motor complex which occurs every couple hours between meals will also be exagerrated by the upregulated gut nerves"...or something to that effect.This does not mean they are wrong, they are right about the phenom, but this does not answer any question. All it does is describe a phenomenon you have already observed yourself, using some limited physiology and bigger words to describe the neuromuscular mechanics of what you alreadyknow you are experiencing. If we proceed on the basis that you have been thoroughly examined and had IBD and infectious disease and the like ruled out, and the primary marker you now have is that you have identified quantitively that you have certain allergic reactions and certain non-allergic food sensitivities, then first put that in the context of your overactive intestines.In oversimplified terms, there are various types of "immune-cells" in your small intestine, where the foods first go after leaving the stomach to be both digested for absorption and examined by the immune system for "safe or not safe", which we now know for whatever reason misidentify certain safe things as unsafe in some people. Those people end up with symptoms we call IBS-d and "cyclic" IBS. That is about 70% of the IBS population. C's may have this as an element of the problem but it is not as simple nor straightforward what is happening to them.This "provocation" causes various classes of these cells to begin a chain of reactions which varies from person to person, but regardless results in the release [within the bowel wall and in then in the bloodstream as the offending substance is absorbed] of an array of chemical mediators either stored in these immune cells or synthesized by them when they are stimulated to respond. These chemicals (up to 100 different ones) are intended to create a protective response against pathogens but instead are creating an inapproriate protective response against food or chemical additive.They act directly upon the nerves of the gut (motor and sensory), the smooth muscle of the gut, the cells of the mucosa lining, the cells which make up the capillary walls in the microvasculature, and then when released in the bloodstream can affect other body structures up to and including the brain. Some of the same cells are actually in the brain as well, just like the lungs, and can be provoked into action under certain conditions as well.The princpal consequences are altered gut wall-vascular permeability, altered digestive function, increase sensitivity to sensory input within the lumen of the bowel, increased reactivity of the smooth muscle to stimuli, increased local and afferent nerve activity, and other effects which are attributed directly to each specific proinflammatory mediator released in these reactions.These reactions take time to develop and then persist for a time proportionate to the duration of absorption of the provoking substance as it passes through the small bowel and the time it takes for the total amount of each mediator released to be completely removed from all the compartments they can enter, then for the cells acted upon to recover. This is wildly variable, as is the rate of symptom onset (which itself can take up to 72 hours just to fulminate).So if you are consuming offending foods each day, or evene every other day or two, you keep the system active and the degree of activity will vary with the dose-frequency relationships of your dietary intake to the dietary offending food or chemical content.The gut will remain in a perpetual state of hypersensitivity just like the airways of the lungs are in asthmatics. In IBS you can detect this with such things as manometric measurements of response to mechanical stimuli, mediator recovery from the lumen, biospy of the small bowel wall (which will show the abnormal accumulation of such things as the protective lymphocytes...they come in and out of the microvascualture normally, but if the bowel immune system is being chronically provoked then more lymphocytes can be seen outside the blood vessels than should be)....you can also see mast cell recrutiment in some people at the ileocecal junction...recover inflammatory markers from the bowel wall tisssue...and identify reactivity of circulating immunocytes "in vitro"...achieve symptom reduction with "immune stabilizers"...all kinds of things have been done to show this recently.Anyway, so you have this perpetually twitchy bowel which gets a migraine when really provoked by large dose of antigen or literally vomits it out when strongly provoked as well (your episodes) but in between it will be more reactive than normal to any chemical stimulus or mechanical stimulus (eating normal size meal, the endocrine chemicals released in response to fat in the meal, a little gas in the system feels like a lot, etc).Now nobody knows why the gut immune system malfunctions like this yet only that it does and it can be detected and quantified, and provoking it can be minimzed by isolating and avoiding things that cause these immunocytes to react and release the chemicals which result in this condition. It does appear to involve in part a heretofore unseen mechanism of some localized IgE in the gut arming the system as a normal function, and it seems to go awry in some folks, and it is IgE that cannot be detected by conventional allergy testing. It is not a typical allergy reaction, though allergy may be comorbid in some patients and that has to be checked for too. It is basically considered weird so far by the allergists/immunologists studying it.Now this activity is going to persist as long as there remains anything in the gut which provokes any of the immunocytes to react...and then for the period of time it takes for the mediators to clear and the tissue the system to return to its normative state.If we keep ingesting even small amounts of offending food or chemical hidden in the diet the condition will persist. If the dose is low the symptoms will be milder or the episodes further apart. If the dose is larger then the response will be proportionate.So you have to remove in total 100% no exceptions every comorbid allergy and sensitivity from entering the GI tract first. Then the process of cleansing and recovery will begin. If we slip and let something in, progress is reversed as a reaction will be trigered, and then that has to run its course to get back to where we were.This is why it is so important to use one of several specific protocols that have been developed which can speed this up a bit as compared to just plain old elimination dieting. The risk of recidivism is higher the longer it takes to feel results. But, even so, plain old rotation-elimination will eventually be effective if adhered to with religious zeal. Also this is why it is important to do this with access to a dietician or other practitioner who knows the subject matter well, and what to do with the tools available.The secret is Three P Rule #2 (Three P rule #1 rememember is PROCESSED? PACKAGED? POISON). Number (2) is PERMANENCE, PATIENCE & PERSISTENCE.Now the caveat is that there are appearing on the horizon several possible effective immunomodulating supplements for people at least with this clear involvement in IBS D and Cyclics which seem to reduce the reactivity in a fashion similar to sodium cromoglycate...except hopefully without the tachyphylaxis. This may allow the restoration os some degree or all oral tolerance.Also promising is that one of the possible etiologies based upon everything I read (and I love this one too) is dysbiosis. The patients intestinal flora are not only essentila for proper digestion and pathogen control, but for the bowel immune system to work properly. Saving the complicated mechansisms simply put iof the flaor are out of whack then the immune system oral tolerance mechanism may also malfunction as a natural and normal consequence of this...in which case restoring the patients flora should ultimatley restore oral tolerance.There is much to suggest this, mostly observational and logic based upon known function, and this can be very promising for thsoe whose loss of tolerance follows antibiotic use or some other such insult to the gut as may disturb the normal gut flora balance.Anyway, for now, the most rudimentary thing to do is if you know that every time you walk into a certain room you get a headache, and you find that the headache is caused by getting hit with a hammer every time you enter that room, well, don't go there anymore and your head will recover and stop hurting.
________________________________"Oddly enough the diet coke and tea I've had both seemed to help my stomach until today." _________________________________Sorry I am foggy on what you mean there
You know, by "helps my stomach until today". If you can be more desCriptive maybe I can comment.Hope that helps some.Later, 'tater
MNL
 

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HI JULIASEBENUNDDREISICH...Ok got a few minutes of quiet now let us see what your questions are: ___________________________________1. "Can you tell me what foods cross react to mold allergy?"qualifying quote: "Today was damp and chilly, and my stomach acted up all day, as well as my allergies. In light of what I learned from you, can you tell me how to manage this?" ___________________________________I don't know
! Maybe.The "standard bearer" among all books on food allergy and intolerance is a 1,032 page tome compiled and published in (4) languages by Brostoff and Challacombe over 10 years ago as a training and reference guide for doctors. About 50 other allergists and immunolgists contributed to this book which exceeds the content of Brostoff's "consumer guide" which you have and we usually refer to by at least tenfold. A new edition is in editing right now to bring this older book up to date refelcting all the newest info on the subject that has been discovered in the last decade.Even this book does not have any clear reference or guide which will make answering this question easy. There are several places I may be able to get a clear answer for you but I need to know which molds you were tested for, which ones were test positive, and by which kind of test specifically. Then, if I cannot find the answer, I will send your test results to Professor Brostoff, confess my igonorance, and beg for enlightenment
.In the meantime if you are certain you do have actual mold allergy (not some animal dander or dust mites which can act like mold reactivity) you can read the guidelines on how to manage it in your envirobment on page 92 of the book you have. _____________________________2. [all of paragraph 2] _____________________________First, do not just accept some peoples' pat answer to such a symptom set, when they just basically say you have to write it off as "oh everyones GI tract is more sensitive in the morning and IBS patients suffer an exaggerated gastrocolonic reflex, and even the migrating motor complex which occurs every couple hours between meals will also be exagerrated by the upregulated gut nerves"...or something to that effect.This does not mean they are wrong, they are right about the phenom, but this does not answer any question. All it does is describe a phenomenon you have already observed yourself, using some limited physiology and bigger words to describe the neuromuscular mechanics of what you alreadyknow you are experiencing. If we proceed on the basis that you have been thoroughly examined and had IBD and infectious disease and the like ruled out, and the primary marker you now have is that you have identified quantitively that you have certain allergic reactions and certain non-allergic food sensitivities, then first put that in the context of your overactive intestines.In oversimplified terms, there are various types of "immune-cells" in your small intestine, where the foods first go after leaving the stomach to be both digested for absorption and examined by the immune system for "safe or not safe", which we now know for whatever reason misidentify certain safe things as unsafe in some people. Those people end up with symptoms we call IBS-d and "cyclic" IBS. That is about 70% of the IBS population. C's may have this as an element of the problem but it is not as simple nor straightforward what is happening to them.This "provocation" causes various classes of these cells to begin a chain of reactions which varies from person to person, but regardless results in the release [within the bowel wall and in then in the bloodstream as the offending substance is absorbed] of an array of chemical mediators either stored in these immune cells or synthesized by them when they are stimulated to respond. These chemicals (up to 100 different ones) are intended to create a protective response against pathogens but instead are creating an inapproriate protective response against food or chemical additive.They act directly upon the nerves of the gut (motor and sensory), the smooth muscle of the gut, the cells of the mucosa lining, the cells which make up the capillary walls in the microvasculature, and then when released in the bloodstream can affect other body structures up to and including the brain. Some of the same cells are actually in the brain as well, just like the lungs, and can be provoked into action under certain conditions as well.The princpal consequences are altered gut wall-vascular permeability, altered digestive function, increase sensitivity to sensory input within the lumen of the bowel, increased reactivity of the smooth muscle to stimuli, increased local and afferent nerve activity, and other effects which are attributed directly to each specific proinflammatory mediator released in these reactions.These reactions take time to develop and then persist for a time proportionate to the duration of absorption of the provoking substance as it passes through the small bowel and the time it takes for the total amount of each mediator released to be completely removed from all the compartments they can enter, then for the cells acted upon to recover. This is wildly variable, as is the rate of symptom onset (which itself can take up to 72 hours just to fulminate).So if you are consuming offending foods each day, or evene every other day or two, you keep the system active and the degree of activity will vary with the dose-frequency relationships of your dietary intake to the dietary offending food or chemical content.The gut will remain in a perpetual state of hypersensitivity just like the airways of the lungs are in asthmatics. In IBS you can detect this with such things as manometric measurements of response to mechanical stimuli, mediator recovery from the lumen, biospy of the small bowel wall (which will show the abnormal accumulation of such things as the protective lymphocytes...they come in and out of the microvascualture normally, but if the bowel immune system is being chronically provoked then more lymphocytes can be seen outside the blood vessels than should be)....you can also see mast cell recrutiment in some people at the ileocecal junction...recover inflammatory markers from the bowel wall tisssue...and identify reactivity of circulating immunocytes "in vitro"...achieve symptom reduction with "immune stabilizers"...all kinds of things have been done to show this recently.Anyway, so you have this perpetually twitchy bowel which gets a migraine when really provoked by large dose of antigen or literally vomits it out when strongly provoked as well (your episodes) but in between it will be more reactive than normal to any chemical stimulus or mechanical stimulus (eating normal size meal, the endocrine chemicals released in response to fat in the meal, a little gas in the system feels like a lot, etc).Now nobody knows why the gut immune system malfunctions like this yet only that it does and it can be detected and quantified, and provoking it can be minimzed by isolating and avoiding things that cause these immunocytes to react and release the chemicals which result in this condition. It does appear to involve in part a heretofore unseen mechanism of some localized IgE in the gut arming the system as a normal function, and it seems to go awry in some folks, and it is IgE that cannot be detected by conventional allergy testing. It is not a typical allergy reaction, though allergy may be comorbid in some patients and that has to be checked for too. It is basically considered weird so far by the allergists/immunologists studying it.Now this activity is going to persist as long as there remains anything in the gut which provokes any of the immunocytes to react...and then for the period of time it takes for the mediators to clear and the tissue the system to return to its normative state.If we keep ingesting even small amounts of offending food or chemical hidden in the diet the condition will persist. If the dose is low the symptoms will be milder or the episodes further apart. If the dose is larger then the response will be proportionate.So you have to remove in total 100% no exceptions every comorbid allergy and sensitivity from entering the GI tract first. Then the process of cleansing and recovery will begin. If we slip and let something in, progress is reversed as a reaction will be trigered, and then that has to run its course to get back to where we were.This is why it is so important to use one of several specific protocols that have been developed which can speed this up a bit as compared to just plain old elimination dieting. The risk of recidivism is higher the longer it takes to feel results. But, even so, plain old rotation-elimination will eventually be effective if adhered to with religious zeal. Also this is why it is important to do this with access to a dietician or other practitioner who knows the subject matter well, and what to do with the tools available.The secret is Three P Rule #2 (Three P rule #1 rememember is PROCESSED? PACKAGED? POISON). Number (2) is PERMANENCE, PATIENCE & PERSISTENCE.Now the caveat is that there are appearing on the horizon several possible effective immunomodulating supplements for people at least with this clear involvement in IBS D and Cyclics which seem to reduce the reactivity in a fashion similar to sodium cromoglycate...except hopefully without the tachyphylaxis. This may allow the restoration os some degree or all oral tolerance.Also promising is that one of the possible etiologies based upon everything I read (and I love this one too) is dysbiosis. The patients intestinal flora are not only essentila for proper digestion and pathogen control, but for the bowel immune system to work properly. Saving the complicated mechansisms simply put iof the flaor are out of whack then the immune system oral tolerance mechanism may also malfunction as a natural and normal consequence of this...in which case restoring the patients flora should ultimatley restore oral tolerance.There is much to suggest this, mostly observational and logic based upon known function, and this can be very promising for thsoe whose loss of tolerance follows antibiotic use or some other such insult to the gut as may disturb the normal gut flora balance.Anyway, for now, the most rudimentary thing to do is if you know that every time you walk into a certain room you get a headache, and you find that the headache is caused by getting hit with a hammer every time you enter that room, well, don't go there anymore and your head will recover and stop hurting.
________________________________"Oddly enough the diet coke and tea I've had both seemed to help my stomach until today." _________________________________Sorry I am foggy on what you mean there
You know, by "helps my stomach until today". If you can be more desCriptive maybe I can comment.Hope that helps some.Later, 'tater
MNL
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Mike,Thanks for your reply. Please don't
! It's not all that bad, I manage.
I haven't had allergy tests since I was a child, and I don't trust what I know of those, since I was suffering from soy allergy reaction at the time and my doctors rationalzed my year-round symptoms as "seasonal"
As I remember they said I was allergic to dust and trees. So as a grown-up I only trust what I've been able to determine on my own about allergies. Sounds like it might be time to get further tests when I have benefits again - IF I can find an allergist as smart and aware as you and Dr. Brostoff. (big if!!)Anyway, I identified the mold allergy by noticing I always felt bad in damp weather. Then I had the bright idea of cleaning the mold off my window wells after it rained, and I stopped waking up with headaches.
It grows on my (landlord's) steel window frames, it's also caused by condensation, and when I spray disinfectant and wipe it off with a paper towel, it comes off looking like black ink. That's what I'm allergic to, but I don't know its name. When I told my doctor this she put in my chart that I'm allergic to mold.I also identified I'm allergic to some dust in a similar manner - I started noticing my head getting stuffed up when I got near certain areas in my apt., and I found there was a dust buildup in curtains, behind furniture, stereo, etc. Now I'm a better housekeeper, and I got a HEPA air purifier. This improved my health also, especially washing the curtains every 3 weeks. The odd thing is I'm not allergic to all dust. The gray dust in antique and thrift stores doesn't bother me at all. The dust I'm allergic to is beige and smells bad, like a combo of dust and rot.
It fills up the purifier filter much faster than the manual said, I have to change it every 6 weeks or so. I'm sure it's not my cats' dander because I often put my face right on my cats and get no symptoms at all. Also dander particles are much bigger than this dust.I don't think my morning spasms are caused by a food intolerance because I've been eating the same food on workdays as I do on other days, when it doesn't bother me - cinnamon oatmeal bread toast with cashew butter. (yum!) But it occurs to me that perhaps I get spasms because I don't eat as much on workdays. That's something I've always noticed, if I don't eat enough I get spasms. On workdays I eat 2 pieces of toast, but on other days I can eat later and add chicken and potatos to that for a real meal. I take snacks to work and eat again around 9:30 or 10, and I also usually snack around 3:30 or 4. Maybe I'll try eating a bulky cereal on workdays instead. Also, when I get spasms they almost always start in the top of my stomach, just under my chest. Once when I was recovering from flulike symptoms and hadn't eaten, I could feel the rhythm of the spasms. As soon as I ate some crackers it went away. Do you know if spasms in this area can be caused by immune system reaction? I suspect that hasn't been checked yet...Maybe it is a nervous reaction from the bad old days of abusive family and bad jobs.I hadn't had any soda at all for several weeks, and I had been randomly getting slight nausea and gas. Monday at work I drank a little diet coke, it made me burp, and my mild symptoms were gone! It was a 20 oz. bottle and I also drank a little the next 2 days. On Wed. I skipped tea with breakfast, then gave in and had some around 10:30 and same thing - I burped and my minor discomfort went away. But on Thursday my tummy was much worse. That's what I meant. I drink Morning Thunder tea which is made of black tea and mate' (a South American herb according to the box). I usually do pretty well with it, but once or twice it has seemed to provoke spasms, so I'm trying to be careful. I'm learning to choose what to eat or drink based on what my tummy's doing at the time.In my next life I want to have no health problems, never get sick, and be a rockabilly bass player - I've already planned it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Mike,Thanks for your reply. Please don't
! It's not all that bad, I manage.
I haven't had allergy tests since I was a child, and I don't trust what I know of those, since I was suffering from soy allergy reaction at the time and my doctors rationalzed my year-round symptoms as "seasonal"
As I remember they said I was allergic to dust and trees. So as a grown-up I only trust what I've been able to determine on my own about allergies. Sounds like it might be time to get further tests when I have benefits again - IF I can find an allergist as smart and aware as you and Dr. Brostoff. (big if!!)Anyway, I identified the mold allergy by noticing I always felt bad in damp weather. Then I had the bright idea of cleaning the mold off my window wells after it rained, and I stopped waking up with headaches.
It grows on my (landlord's) steel window frames, it's also caused by condensation, and when I spray disinfectant and wipe it off with a paper towel, it comes off looking like black ink. That's what I'm allergic to, but I don't know its name. When I told my doctor this she put in my chart that I'm allergic to mold.I also identified I'm allergic to some dust in a similar manner - I started noticing my head getting stuffed up when I got near certain areas in my apt., and I found there was a dust buildup in curtains, behind furniture, stereo, etc. Now I'm a better housekeeper, and I got a HEPA air purifier. This improved my health also, especially washing the curtains every 3 weeks. The odd thing is I'm not allergic to all dust. The gray dust in antique and thrift stores doesn't bother me at all. The dust I'm allergic to is beige and smells bad, like a combo of dust and rot.
It fills up the purifier filter much faster than the manual said, I have to change it every 6 weeks or so. I'm sure it's not my cats' dander because I often put my face right on my cats and get no symptoms at all. Also dander particles are much bigger than this dust.I don't think my morning spasms are caused by a food intolerance because I've been eating the same food on workdays as I do on other days, when it doesn't bother me - cinnamon oatmeal bread toast with cashew butter. (yum!) But it occurs to me that perhaps I get spasms because I don't eat as much on workdays. That's something I've always noticed, if I don't eat enough I get spasms. On workdays I eat 2 pieces of toast, but on other days I can eat later and add chicken and potatos to that for a real meal. I take snacks to work and eat again around 9:30 or 10, and I also usually snack around 3:30 or 4. Maybe I'll try eating a bulky cereal on workdays instead. Also, when I get spasms they almost always start in the top of my stomach, just under my chest. Once when I was recovering from flulike symptoms and hadn't eaten, I could feel the rhythm of the spasms. As soon as I ate some crackers it went away. Do you know if spasms in this area can be caused by immune system reaction? I suspect that hasn't been checked yet...Maybe it is a nervous reaction from the bad old days of abusive family and bad jobs.I hadn't had any soda at all for several weeks, and I had been randomly getting slight nausea and gas. Monday at work I drank a little diet coke, it made me burp, and my mild symptoms were gone! It was a 20 oz. bottle and I also drank a little the next 2 days. On Wed. I skipped tea with breakfast, then gave in and had some around 10:30 and same thing - I burped and my minor discomfort went away. But on Thursday my tummy was much worse. That's what I meant. I drink Morning Thunder tea which is made of black tea and mate' (a South American herb according to the box). I usually do pretty well with it, but once or twice it has seemed to provoke spasms, so I'm trying to be careful. I'm learning to choose what to eat or drink based on what my tummy's doing at the time.In my next life I want to have no health problems, never get sick, and be a rockabilly bass player - I've already planned it.
 

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G'day.... _____________________________________"...As soon as I ate some crackers it went away. Do you know if spasms in this area can be caused by immune system reaction?" ____________________________________yes and no. These reactions, we must keep in mind, also follow the same rules as asthma: "ALL THAT WHEEZES IS NOT ASTHMA"The symptoms you describe there, the way you describe them, are casue for a differential workup of yiour upper GI for one os several things that might be happening.Have you had an upper GI series recently including a barium swallow...old fashioned but still effective...??Also take a look at something I worte on this thread below which sort of describes how the food sesnitivity reactins seen in the small bowel can be "chronic" not episodic and.or way out of sync with the provoking agent. Not that this is the problem only that it can be. http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...ic&f=1&t=024827 And everything you said about molds and dust etc makes sense as these little nasties manifest themselves just like you describe and you are taking the appropriate steps. Check the book as listed for some other ideas. This can be very tough. do you have hard floors or carpet? Sometimes it is useful to create a clean-room wherein you dwell in your leisure time as much as possible...hard floors clean as wisker...leather or vinayl furniture wipes down easy...no fabric in window coverings...hepa filter and dehumidifier...big screen TV with digital cable and 1000 watt stereo, wet bar .ooops got carried awy there.OH PHONES gotta go! CU laterMNL
 

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G'day.... _____________________________________"...As soon as I ate some crackers it went away. Do you know if spasms in this area can be caused by immune system reaction?" ____________________________________yes and no. These reactions, we must keep in mind, also follow the same rules as asthma: "ALL THAT WHEEZES IS NOT ASTHMA"The symptoms you describe there, the way you describe them, are casue for a differential workup of yiour upper GI for one os several things that might be happening.Have you had an upper GI series recently including a barium swallow...old fashioned but still effective...??Also take a look at something I worte on this thread below which sort of describes how the food sesnitivity reactins seen in the small bowel can be "chronic" not episodic and.or way out of sync with the provoking agent. Not that this is the problem only that it can be. http://www.ibsgroup.org/cgi-local/ubbcgi/u...ic&f=1&t=024827 And everything you said about molds and dust etc makes sense as these little nasties manifest themselves just like you describe and you are taking the appropriate steps. Check the book as listed for some other ideas. This can be very tough. do you have hard floors or carpet? Sometimes it is useful to create a clean-room wherein you dwell in your leisure time as much as possible...hard floors clean as wisker...leather or vinayl furniture wipes down easy...no fabric in window coverings...hepa filter and dehumidifier...big screen TV with digital cable and 1000 watt stereo, wet bar .ooops got carried awy there.OH PHONES gotta go! CU laterMNL
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks Mike. I have gorgeous hardwood floors in the living room and bedroom, and worn vinyl in the kitchen and bathroom.When I was studying my computer classes last summer I brought the purifier into the living room and it helped a lot. Lately I've slacked on that though. Last year I had an endoscopy and nothing was found. I learned later I was also tested for eosinophils, which shows my GI was on top of things. Last April I had a CT scan of my abdomen for which I had to drink 4 glasses of barium - is that what you mean by barium swallow? The sorbitol in the drink made me gassy for days.
Again nothing was found.I'm beginning to think some of my symptoms are related to my nerves, for example if I'm not quick enough to turn off the news and see something gruesome, my bowel(s) cramp. And I've been worse since Sep. 11. I'm fairly sure my morning symptoms are partly nerves. I was thinking of that this morning and sensed my tummy is set in its ways and repeating a very old pattern - it's reaction to having to get up when I was sick all the time in a house where my parents weren't nice or supportive, then having to go to school where both kids and teachers hated me, and on top of that I was going to dump into it one food it's allergic to and 2 it's intolerant of
It's really amazing I survived, both physically and spiritually.
Sorry I got sad on you. I ate Kashi cereal with rice milk today and a bentyl, and my tummy did ok. Maybe I'll just keep taking the bentyl every morning for a while, and maybe that will help retrain my tummy. I'm going to check into buying the hypno tapes, if possible I'll hold off until I get a real job.What's a differential workup of my GI?Thanks again
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks Mike. I have gorgeous hardwood floors in the living room and bedroom, and worn vinyl in the kitchen and bathroom.When I was studying my computer classes last summer I brought the purifier into the living room and it helped a lot. Lately I've slacked on that though. Last year I had an endoscopy and nothing was found. I learned later I was also tested for eosinophils, which shows my GI was on top of things. Last April I had a CT scan of my abdomen for which I had to drink 4 glasses of barium - is that what you mean by barium swallow? The sorbitol in the drink made me gassy for days.
Again nothing was found.I'm beginning to think some of my symptoms are related to my nerves, for example if I'm not quick enough to turn off the news and see something gruesome, my bowel(s) cramp. And I've been worse since Sep. 11. I'm fairly sure my morning symptoms are partly nerves. I was thinking of that this morning and sensed my tummy is set in its ways and repeating a very old pattern - it's reaction to having to get up when I was sick all the time in a house where my parents weren't nice or supportive, then having to go to school where both kids and teachers hated me, and on top of that I was going to dump into it one food it's allergic to and 2 it's intolerant of
It's really amazing I survived, both physically and spiritually.
Sorry I got sad on you. I ate Kashi cereal with rice milk today and a bentyl, and my tummy did ok. Maybe I'll just keep taking the bentyl every morning for a while, and maybe that will help retrain my tummy. I'm going to check into buying the hypno tapes, if possible I'll hold off until I get a real job.What's a differential workup of my GI?Thanks again
 

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Yup yup yup you are on top of it.The "nerves" thing is a two-way street. On the one hand the aberrant immune reactions focused in the small bowel, as mediators are also circulated in the blood stream and certain ones which can penetrate the blood-brain barrier can reach the brain itself and act directly upon it (and there are immunocytes in the brain tissue which can discharge as well under certain conditions)can and do activate the nerves of the brain-gut axis and even certain brain centers (this can be observed and could also be quantified with a certain type of analysis of spinal fluid). The trick will be to isolate and characterize when and to what degree this occurs once the immunlogic study moves from the small bowel on up the line so to speak. Anyway all the stuff I talked about on the other thread makes the gut twitchy, like an asthmatics airways are twictchy, so that even a normal thought-reaction cycles' consequences can be amplified.Further, the cycle is amplified by learned behaviors which are a conseqence of your experiences and thus expectations (sort of like "projecting"...or, to paraphrase, "I expect therefore I am".)To what degree each component contributes to a patients symptom set is a matter of debate that is a chicken-egg question and by nature rhetorical.The solution is of course an integrated therapy program of which I always speak. The third leg of the diet-supportive medicine-(third leg) stool can be CBT or HT depending upon the patients preferences. The method which works best will be whichever one the patient will actually see through.Some people find, once all the provoking foods are removed from the diet, that the tendencies you describe disappear as the neuroimmune basis for it disappears. Some have persistent learned behavors that have to be reversed to get complete remission. At that point (remove the hammer and see how much of the ehadache goes away) is where the protocols used by those I associate with would call for the discussion and selection of the best modality for that patient to add.So be sure that you combine the therapeutic modalities, be it HT or CBT, with a carefully constructed dietary intake analysis system to isolate any of the provoking foods that could be isolated "manually", so as to get the best possible results.Sorry for getting sad in me? Julia, if that is the worst thing that happens today I am going to have a GREAT DAY!
Later...MNL
 

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Yup yup yup you are on top of it.The "nerves" thing is a two-way street. On the one hand the aberrant immune reactions focused in the small bowel, as mediators are also circulated in the blood stream and certain ones which can penetrate the blood-brain barrier can reach the brain itself and act directly upon it (and there are immunocytes in the brain tissue which can discharge as well under certain conditions)can and do activate the nerves of the brain-gut axis and even certain brain centers (this can be observed and could also be quantified with a certain type of analysis of spinal fluid). The trick will be to isolate and characterize when and to what degree this occurs once the immunlogic study moves from the small bowel on up the line so to speak. Anyway all the stuff I talked about on the other thread makes the gut twitchy, like an asthmatics airways are twictchy, so that even a normal thought-reaction cycles' consequences can be amplified.Further, the cycle is amplified by learned behaviors which are a conseqence of your experiences and thus expectations (sort of like "projecting"...or, to paraphrase, "I expect therefore I am".)To what degree each component contributes to a patients symptom set is a matter of debate that is a chicken-egg question and by nature rhetorical.The solution is of course an integrated therapy program of which I always speak. The third leg of the diet-supportive medicine-(third leg) stool can be CBT or HT depending upon the patients preferences. The method which works best will be whichever one the patient will actually see through.Some people find, once all the provoking foods are removed from the diet, that the tendencies you describe disappear as the neuroimmune basis for it disappears. Some have persistent learned behavors that have to be reversed to get complete remission. At that point (remove the hammer and see how much of the ehadache goes away) is where the protocols used by those I associate with would call for the discussion and selection of the best modality for that patient to add.So be sure that you combine the therapeutic modalities, be it HT or CBT, with a carefully constructed dietary intake analysis system to isolate any of the provoking foods that could be isolated "manually", so as to get the best possible results.Sorry for getting sad in me? Julia, if that is the worst thing that happens today I am going to have a GREAT DAY!
Later...MNL
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
quote:remove the hammer and see how much of the headache goes away
What a great laugh! I needed that!!
To be honest I've never been good about keeping dietary records. so far I've done it in my head. I'll see what I can do... I'm getting a serious case of blues. Being semi-employed, the war, and holidays with my ###$!#%&! family are really getting to me. I won't see family, I don't do holidays as of last year. Also I was stupid and drank diet coke with lunch, have had pain ever since. Guess the time it helped was a fluke.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
quote:remove the hammer and see how much of the headache goes away
What a great laugh! I needed that!!
To be honest I've never been good about keeping dietary records. so far I've done it in my head. I'll see what I can do... I'm getting a serious case of blues. Being semi-employed, the war, and holidays with my ###$!#%&! family are really getting to me. I won't see family, I don't do holidays as of last year. Also I was stupid and drank diet coke with lunch, have had pain ever since. Guess the time it helped was a fluke.
 

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Julia, I can relate. Holidays are never easy to cope with. I live far from my whole family and sometimes it gets to me... I just got back to work this week (was in Disney World with the kids - what a great therapy!). Now, I have to deal with the snow
, the cold
and the lack of sun
Hope you don't get the blues for too long!
Nat
 
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