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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,I feel I should share my liver flush experience. Please make your own interpretation of this information but personally I have been amazed (positively) by the results.I will try to be as brief as possible but include the critical facts.Me:-I am 44, male, English, white, fit, healthy, 180 lbs, living in Switzerland and university science educated.Medical history:-Since being wrongly fully diagnosed with cancer and a heart condition when I was 26, I have not been to see a doctor in 18 years. I classify doctors similarly to garage mechanics. Once you have to go to see them you have already lost!Symptoms:-I would not say I have had any major symptoms but have been experiencing negative changes in my body’s digestive capabilities during the last 10 - 15 years which were initially mild but gradually increasing in severity. These included (most recently and thus most severely):-Unpredictable diarrhoea, clay coloured stools, very frequent stomach pains /cramps, runners trots (diarrhoea when jogging), about once a year occurrences of fever, acute kidney area pain and severe diarrhoea lasting about 3-4 days.Possible causes:-Over the years I have considered, irritable bowel syndrome, various food allergies, lactase deficiency, parasites, hepatitis and finally gallstones. During recent years I was however unable to definitively identify why my digestive system was so problematic. No really incapacitating symptoms but very sensitive / weak. The slightest excesses of fats, spices, alcohol, stress (eg sales presentation, etc…) would send me rushing to the toilet with stomach pains and diarrhoea. Finally I just resigned myself that this was just normal ageing and controlled the situation with Imodium.The final straw came after a half marathon this autumn. (I typically used Imodium to stabilise my stomach for a run). A few days after the race I had WHITE stools…WHITE!! And then the kidney area pains started, fever and diarrhoea for a couple of days.Also recently I had had a couple of tiny twinges under my right lower ribs which whilst I could not say they qualified as “pain” they were definitely unusual.Putting these facts all together I decided I may have a gallstone problem with the fever etc being perhaps a gallstone blockage related infection, eg pancreatitis etc……Searching the internet I discovered the liver and gallbladder flush/purge. Putting various recipes together I have now used the following process three times.- Lots of fresh apple juice (1 -2 litres / day for 5 – 7 days), only prior to first flush.- Low fat food the morning of flush- Stop eating at 12 noon- 2 tablespoons Epsom salts in water at 19.00- 1 more tablespoon Epsom salts at 20.00- 20.30, 2 large helpings of high fat (high quality / yummy ice cream, vanilla and chocolate)- 21.00, 2/3 pint olive oil + 2/3 pint fresh lemon juice. Premixed is slightly easier to swallow, but still YUCKY !22.00, go to bed lying on right side with right knee high towards shoulder.- Next morning, 1 more tablespoon of Epsom salts to get things movingAll bowel movements after the olive oil drink were caught with a food sieve and washed through with cold water from my shower head.My reactions:-By the time I go to bed the Epsom salts will have sent me to the toilet a couple of times and I am empty of food.I have slept reasonably well each of the 3 times I have done this and each consecutive one has been less difficult than before. The first time I did have heart palpitations and very strangely felt profoundly sad (?) during the night for no reason I could identify.Results:-(I have photos of all my results)1st time:- INCREDIBLE ! The first morning toilet trip brought what I thought were peas!! Peas ?? But I had not been eating peas!! Then more peas…..bigger peas…..cripes!!!! These are the stones …..I couldn’t believe it. Dark green gelatinous gallstones. In total about 100 grams. A cupful! Largest about 1cm diameter!!!!!!2nd time 3 weeks later:- Didn’t feel so bad after the olive oil. Similar results. About 80 grams of gallstones of which half were a gooey brown colour and didn’t float in water like the pure green ones. I believe this to be the liver sludge.3rd time 3 weeks later:- Again felt much more comfortable during the process. About 10-20 grams of CLEAN soft green gallstones up to 6 mm in size. I believe these to be perhaps the young stones from within the liver.How did I feel afterwards:-This is the remarkable thing. The very next day after the first flush I just couldn’t believe the difference. I woke up with so much more energy. Just felt so much more positive. Extraordinary difference. My friends commented on it immediately.I just feel so much better. I can eat anything I want. Even big fatty meals just before bedtime and I wake up fine. I used to be really sleepy / dozy in the mornings after a big late meal. I have a much higher tolerance for alcohol and spicy foods. I can get away with eating and drinking anything. The way I remember I could at university. And incredibly ….my stools are now a dark brown colour as they should be, not a pale clay colour which had been the case for years. I suspect my biliary system had been blocked up for a long time.I plan to do a fourth flush in January and then 1 per year thereafter.I AM TRULY AMAZED BY THIS!I have now read many medical journals concerning gallbladder issues and am horrified that this is NEVER mentioned as a potential treatment for problems or even as a preventative measure for people without apparent symptoms.I have friends who are doctors and one who is a liver transplant surgeon. None of them have ever heard of this process. Some are fascinated and plan to try it themselves in the New Year.If, by principle, I had not been so against going to a doctor then I may well have taken my slight but long term symptoms for a consultation and may well have ended up having my gallbladder removed as I would not have been sufficiently informed to know better.I do not wish to position myself higher than a professionally qualified doctor and you should all make your own decisions. I write this so that you may hopefully benefit from my story as I most certainly have from other people who published their experiences.I am not a particularly emotional individual but this is one of the two medical related topics which I feel passionate about. The other is against smoking but that’s another story ;-)I will continue to discuss this topic with my doctor friends and will be fascinated to hear their comments and results. I would love somebody to take this as a PhD topic and do some professional research. But who would sponsor such research? Not the medical or Parma industry that’s for sure when 750,000 people per year in the US are having their gallbladders removed at a cost of 10,000 USD a time. That’s almost a 10 Billion USD industry. Strange how none of the professional groups are promoting this alternate process ;-)……..we wouldn’t want to change that now would we?Best wishes to you all ……………..all comments and feedback welcome………PS Maybe the Olive Oil industry would sponsor some research ;-) ????
 

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The epsom salts will make you go quite a bit, it is an osmotic laxative.Mixing the oil with acid and drinking it makes the stones all by itself. There are several of these home cures where the proticol itself causes the stuff that comes out of your body.That being said, some people do find this makes them feel better, as long as you don't avoid the hospital when you really do need surgery I don't think it would hurt you.K.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Kathleen, Thanks for your comments. I am aware of your thoughts in that the flush itself may be the cause of the resulting materials and have read articles to that effect. I have to say however that I cannot agree. I was inherently sceptical about liver flushing but gave it a try anyway. What was there to lose? Even after the first results I remained sceptical despite the immediate reductions in my symptoms and the fact that the output of the process looked just like the non-calcified stones present in surgically removed Gallbladders. I have now done 4 flushes in total. The process I use has been identical, The results have NOT ! The results in my mind are entirely consistemt with a gradual purging of gelatonious stones from the liver and Gall bladder.Less each time and smaller. Again ...I had a sceptical engineering mentality approach to this but have been convinced. This is the only reason I am posting here. I have benefited enormously from the process and I would like others to also if possible. I just wish somebody in the medical community would review this seriously / professionally.As a final comment, myself I can say that when I make a salad dressing with olive oil and lemon juice it doesn't turn into large green gelationous lumps like those that this purge process generates
All the best and thanks again for feedback....
quote:Originally posted by Kathleen M, Ph.D.:The epsom salts will make you go quite a bit, it is an osmotic laxative.Mixing the oil with acid and drinking it makes the stones all by itself. There are several of these home cures where the proticol itself causes the stuff that comes out of your body.That being said, some people do find this makes them feel better, as long as you don't avoid the hospital when you really do need surgery I don't think it would hurt you.K.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi again Kath et al,Here are links to the Lancet article you mentioned and discussions around it for anybody that's interested.http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=476&i=798http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=83&i=504I have no intention to promote a false process here and did myself start off very sceptical. The great thing about the Internet is that we can all share this information and make our own minds up. Personally I am convinced. After 10 + years of trying to understand what was wrong with my GI this has worked. Good luck to all in their search for solutions. If anybodt tries a flush please share you level of succes with others positive or negative as the medical community seems highly ignorant in this domain currently.Some people are against, some are for and some are undecided. Personally I'm convinced. It worked for me and I hope it works for anybody else that tries it.Regards to all.............
quote:Originally posted by Kathleen M, Ph.D.:pS a website on this the flush causes the stones thing http://www.vegsource.com/klaper/qa02.htmAlso for a scientists did look at this and didn't just use Chemistry 101 information to dismiss it.Could these be gallstones? Christiaan W Siesa, and Jim Brookerb The Lancet Volume 365, Issue 9468 , 16 April 2005-22 April 2005, Page 1388 K.
 

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I'd pretty much try anything, but the ice cream would make me paint the walls an hour later due to lactose intollerance. Why not just drink heavy cream? What other high fat substance could you use?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi, you can forget the ice cream if you prefer. It's the Oliive Oil that's important. Most people don't add this and it's only there to stop you being hungry as you haven't eaten since midday. Do your own google searches for more / more background if you prefer. There is a lot of discussion available. Good luck !
quote:Originally posted by legbuh:I'd pretty much try anything, but the ice cream would make me paint the walls an hour later due to lactose intollerance. Why not just drink heavy cream? What other high fat substance could you use?
 

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This sounds sooo scarry to me because I'm like.....a vomit phobe.....BIG TIME! This sounds like it would come right back up. I don't think this would do very well with my GERD and hiatal hernia, either. But, I am really glad to hear that it worked for you. My roommate tried your method and it only made him nauseated. He didn't see anything that looked like peas. Maybe he didn't have gallstones to begin with. I just had an ultrasound in October and they say I have no gallstones and my gallbladder is fine. So, I don't think I will be trying this anytime soon but I hope someone does and I hope it works for them like it has worked for you!! ..... Best Wishes!Michelle
 

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Fluffy,did you had an echography of the gallbladder before your flush?
 

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I have to post this since I thought it was related.I was grilling steaks last night. I always brush olive oil on them while grilling... mmm... (I also add salt and a little sugar to the OO).Anyhow, I spilled some on the tar driveway. It's MN, and cold..This morning I go out and I see these green pools on the driveway and though "Who was parked here that would have leaked antifreeze?"Then I remembered the spilled olive oil. lol..I read a lot on those posts and I am 100% sure that the green "stones" passed are from the olive oil now.
 

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That would be MN and in the cold I guess that would congel together and make a glob. But inside our body its supposed to be 98', so I don't think it congels together for that reason. Why do people have such a hard time believing something like this? Use another oil that isn't green and I bet you get the same results!
 

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I don't believe it becase you're just passing the oil! If not, when do you pass the oil? That's a lot of oil to consume without any coming out the other end, somehow.I should take a picture of the oil on the driveway.. it looks exactly like the pics I've seen of the "stones" passed. Cold, hot... really won't make a difference.Also, real stones aren't green.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi,Fluffy again....to answer these last few q's.....No unfortunately I didn't have ny comparative examinations before and after. I beleive non-calcified stones are in any case difficult to see either with Xray or ultrasound. I am a scientist and would have loved to have had this information available.Where does the oil go ????It's simple......apart from the stones.....there is alot of liquid passed...YUCK :-(As to what the stones look like.....check out some of the photos of removed gallbladders on the www.curezone.com links from my 13 Jan posting. There seem to be 2 types, softer stones af various colours....green yellow, dark grey....and calified. My personal feeling is that I am glad to be getting these pre-calcified lumps out of my system while I can rather have having something more solid to get rid of in 10 - 20 years which may have been a whole lot more difficult. Being 44 years old I see this as a sort of 50,000 miles service activity and should be good for another long run without any trouble
 

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Fluffy I am curious about this treatment. Are you or were you ibs c or d. What symptoms did you have before the flush? I am curious if you had stones in gall bladder and liver what were your exact symptoms with the stones? Did you have pain or did you only have ibs without the pain? Were you officially diagnosed with ibs? I may try it but hesitant just in case I don't have any stones in gall bladder or liver I could do more damage to these organs by the heavy oil load. I have trouble digesting fats. Mind you I have not yet read any of the links yet but will do so later on. Also if there is anyone else on the bb who have tried the flush please post your experiences.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi all!I am the original poster of this string. I just want to state that I have just finished my 7 th flush and am convinced the process is complete. Very few stones now come out. I seem to have got to the bottom of it( pun inteneded
).This really has been a remarkable turn around for me. I can now do all my outside sports activities again that I was limited in for so many years. I'm convinced this liver flush stuff works!Anyway....the reason I post here is that I really sympathise with these types of problems and I simply offer my experience as information.I would be SOOOOO pleased if somebody tried this and it helped them too. I notice that almost 1800 people have read this string. Has anybody gone ahead and done it? Any good results??This is probably my last post so........ best wishes to you all with your challenges....Regards......
 

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HI Fluffy

I actually found this forum via your post here..

I am researching the liver cleanse as something for me to do as a 60 year old male with several minor health issues. The Liver Flush is a very controversial topic.."But I read it on the internet" goes both ways..

The guy that runs quackwatch is an unlicensed psychiatrist who definitely shades the truth to meet his objective...There really needs to be a Quackwatch-watch. The site seems so legit, if one didn't know to be suspicious of his statements, they could end up believing a lot of things he serves up as facts that just are flat out bold distortions of the truth. i.e. BS

I am not a fan of traditional medicine for dealing with diseases that they just don't know how to cure yet...Very grateful when I break a bone or need to be sewn up that they are there for those basic cut and dry needs. But the analogy of doctors and mechanics is a great one...Not able to afford the luxury of a mechanic when I was a kid, and having a strong mechanical aptitude I learned to work on my own vehicles..Over the years I have saved 10's of thousands of dollars and been appalled at the BS stories I have been told by "professional" mechanics. There are plenty of really good honest mechanics...and plenty of knuckled thieves..what both have in common is..when they come to an issue that they don't know the exact cause or solution for, it becomes a guessing game..a process of elimination. The honest one will do his best and the dishonest one will milk you all the way to zero...

Doctors are the same..they are just human..some are brilliant, honest, noble good folks, some can be honest but not so especially brilliant or maybe just apathetic / lazy, and some are just downright greedy, sneaky, evil crooks.

A hard fact to ponder as you blindly hand your health's fate over to your doctor...50% of all doctors graduate in the bottom half of their class and the one that graduates at the very bottom still gets to claim the title of "Doctor"

When it comes to diseases that the medical world has not yet figured out, we as patients end up being guinea pigs of a very narrow path of treatment. With the laws as they are set up and the litigious nature of our society it's unlikely your doctor is going to be having you try a LIver Flush anytime soon.

To those that jump on the old "those aren't gall stones or liver stones, those are just the result of what you shoved down your face the night before".. Well you and 1000's of other liver flushers out there know for a fact that can't be true. If it was, drinking the same solution each time would produce the same results but that's not what happens...Maybe they are not gall or liver stones whatever they are the body is expelling them and they reduce in size and quantity each time you do a flush..something is happening and something is changing...Most importantly you had a physical change in your health and you are not alone.

Thanks for sharing your experience..you mentioned you took pictures...it would be great if you posted them.

What I found very interesting in my online googling is the images of surgically removed Gall Bladders sliced in half and the stones within...Talk about a wide variety of strange looking stones.. Then there are the 1000's of pictures out there of liver cleanse folks...hmmmm they sure look similar????

Lastly I want to thank you for the ice cream idea...I had not come across that advise anywhere else but in dealing with such an unpleasant adventure it sounds like a nice way to start it off with all the other gross stuff you have to do..

After reading so many other stories and yours I am going to give it a try...soon... I'll report back.

Thanks

Tom
 

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Hi! Thanks for this topic! To complete your comments, I suggest having a look at the site iraisemyhealth.info, an instructive site that explains the liver cleansing according to Andreas Moritz's book "The Amazing Liver and Gallbladder Flush". It shows pictures of expelled gallstones and includes many testimonials which prove it's efficacy. My husband has done a few liver cleanses and felt much better afterwards! I'm going to try this method next month
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Not sure about precisely what you're looking for, before getting any medication or herbs you need to consult with a physician. For more information or even to educate yourself you can go through some very nice sites like MayoClinic etc ... also you can get a totally free ebook on liver cleanse here http://www.livercleansetruth.com/
 
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