[22058]

Hi, does anyone else have to take percocets because the pain with ibs is so bad? I live in Canada so I dont know if we get all the same drugs as in the states.

 

[15561]

Hi Darice,I've never taken percocets but I can make a few suggestions to aid in your information search: firstly, try searching through the archive with that as a keyword; secondly, since pain can be associated with either IBS-D or IBS-C, posting in the main forum will reach a broader audience.Cheers.

 

[Kathleen M.]

While occasionally some people do use narcotics to control diarrhea they are not normally used for pain control in IBS.Antispasmodics and antidepressants which are both available in Canada can be used for this.

quote:· Narcotic. Narcotic analgesic drugs are usually not prescribed for continuous treatment because of possible development of physical dependency or addiction and unwanted side effects, such as drowsiness and interference with clear thinking. Furthermore, continuous narcotic use can actually increase pain sensitivity and also alter gut motility, leading to severe constipation. This is called the “narcotic bowel syndrome” (Annals of Internal Medicine, 1984;101:331â€"334). Keeping these cautions in mind, narcotic analgesic drugs are occasionally used to relieve intermittent attacks of more severe pain.

http://www.grandtimes.com/Treatment_of_Irritable.html is a source of why they don't use narcotics regularly for IBS.K.

 

[22058]

Oh, I had no idea. What else would I use for the pain then. It is very bad. If I didnt have this medication I would never be able to leave the house because I would be laying on the floor in a ball all day. Thanks for the advice thought, I will talk to my doctor on our next visit.

 

[Kathleen M.]

Typcially IBS pain is treated with antispasmodics (levsin bentyl and others) or antidepressants, like I said.My severe pain (that no GI doctor ever even suggested taking narctoics for) was actually best controlled using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy which alters how you react to the pain so you shut it down yourself without drugs.K.

 

[13903]

darice, a few intermittent oxycodone or hydrocodone won't hurt. do what you have to do. all the cbt in the world won't make a difference, if youve been in pain for time, it gets amplified by the cns.

 

[Stuart]

I have taken Percocet for severe IBS stomach pains and cramps, and it works great and also knocks out D like a dream. Unfortunately it also knocks me out all day so there is no way I can take it except in emergencies. I tried Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and it was bunk.Lotonex has been the best for me in terms of efficacy versus side effects.

 

[13903]

cbt seems to work on anxiety imo.

 

[22058]

I dont know what cbt and cns means?? I'll probably kick myself after I hear it

 

[Kathleen M.]

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.CentralNervousSystem (the spinal column and brain)CBT that is designed for IBS (rather than whatever the therapist makes up to do) works for about 70% of people.No treatment works for everyone, but that something didn't work for you, personally, doesn't mean it won't work well for others.K.

 

[eric]

Long term use of narcotics for IBS pain can lead to a condition called narcotic bowel syndrome. The narcotics evenually make the pain worse by acting on pain receptors in the gut.I know a few people with this and the pain becomes out of control, more so with the pain already from the IBS. Fewer and fewer treatments work for those people."cbt seems to work on anxiety "That is a very good thing in IBS, because anxiety is part of the vicious cycle and global symptoms. Anxiety and emotions are also processed in some of the same parts of the brain which are connected to pain."Cognitive therapy for irritable bowel syndrome is associated with reduced limbic activity, GI symptoms, and anxiety." "Limbic activity changes were accompanied by significant improvements in GI symptoms (e.g., pain, bowel dysfunction) and psychological functioning (e.g., anxiety, worry). The left pons (-2, -26, -28, P=0.04) showed decreased neural activity which was correlated with post-treatment anxiety scores. Changes in neural activity of cortical-limbic regions that subserve hypervigilance and emotion regulation may represent biologically oriented change mechanisms that mediate symptom improvement of CT for IBS. "http://ibsgroup.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/72210261/m/894109461Hypnotherapy another safe and intergrative approach also works on the anteior cinculate cortex and pain in IBS, a problem seen in IBS patients and not controls. Hypnotherapy has proven effective in IBS and global symptoms.On a side note cbt and HT and relaxtion techniques effect serotonin in the bodyt a problem seen in IBS. Serotonin helps transmit pain signals to the brain from the gut.also its important to understand here something about gut function and that is the division of the autonomic nervous system and the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems and digestions processes."The organs (the "viscera") of our body, such as the heart, stomach and intestines, are regulated by a part of the nervous system called the autonomic nervous system (ANS). The ANS is part of the peripheral nervous system and it controls many organs and muscles within the body. In most situations, we are unaware of the workings of the ANS because it functions in an involuntary, reflexive manner. For example, we do not notice when blood vessels change size or when our heart beats faster. However, some people can be trained to control some functions of the ANS such as heart rate or blood pressure. The ANS is most important in two situations:In emergencies that cause stress and require us to"fight" or take "flight" (run away) andIn nonemergencies that allow us to "rest" and "digest."http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/auto.htmlMind-Body-Pain Connection: How Does It Work? By Michael Henry JosephWebMD Live Events Transcript Event Date: 05/11/2000.Moderator: Welcome to WebMD Live's World Watch and Health News Auditorium. Today we are discussing "The Mind-Body-Pain Connection: How Does It Work?" with Brenda Bursch, Ph.D., Michael Joseph, M.D., and Lonnie Zeltzer, M.D.http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1/1700...vent%20Archives

 

[17736]

I have IBS with diarhhea and severe pain. I've had every test done imaginable. I have IBS, bad IBS. To be honest since I started taking Oxycodone 6+ months ago I have not had one single episode of diarrhea!!!! Need I say more! I take one 5mg pill after dinner and I can eat ANYTHING, before I could eat next to nothing without getting diarrhea and, or intense stomach cramps. Every symptom has gone away. I no longer fear long car rides, I'm about to drive 16 hours in 2 weeks for a vacation. I NEVER would have dreamed of doing that before. A trip to work was a nightmare in the past. I know there are some dangers with "addiction" but most of our meds cause some form of dependency anyway. For the benefits I have received which are countless!!! It's far beyond worth that small risk. If you have tried everything. And trust me I have. 8 years and more meds, fibers and herbal "remedies" than I can recall. Show this to your doctor. Many doctors will disagree with it. Mainly due to lack of understanding of the condition. And out of fear of writing out a script for a schedule II narcotic which has not been indicated for IBS. My guess is someday it will be. Did you know that Immodium AD, the most effective of the OTC brands is actually an Opiod. Do your research. Theres truth to all of this. So why not use an opiod that not only prevents the diarrhea but also kills the excrutiating pain at the same time. Good luck. I know how you all feel and it breaks my heart.

 

[Kathleen M.]

If I may repeat myself.Over time some chronic users of narcotic pain medications get a conditions known as narcotic bowel syndrome. You sometimes read about it more on boards for opiate addiction/pain managment stuff, but I've read stories and it doesn't sound like any fun.Yep, Imodium is an opiate without the risk of addiction or narcotic bowel syndrome. There may be a few people with IBS who may have to resort to narcotics but it should always be seen as a last resort. The complications from going down that road may end up being worse than the IBS was.K.

 

[17736]

I saw what you wrote Kathleen. You wrote it several times. I've researched Narcotic Bowel Syndrome and theres not much info out there. I take one pill a day. I'm not worried. We all have to do what works for us. The reason Imodium isn't addictive is because it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier like most RX opiods. Lomotil (RX version of Imodium on the other hand does cross the barrier and is addictive) Just to put that fact out there. I don't promote "narcotic" use for everyone. Try everything, then try the Hpno therapy and if that doesn't work. You may be a candidate for an opiate. The defenition of narcotic by the way is - "Something that dulls the senses." A lot of people assume it's a legal term.

 

[Kathleen M.]

It just seemed that what you wrote could be read as since Imodium is the same thing what is the difference, why not use narcotoics instead. It isn't the same and I just wanted to point that out.A lot of people downplay the risks of narcotics. Yes, some people do use them without problems, but that doesn't mean the risks are not real, or there is no difference between using Imodium and using Narcotic painkillers.I wish there was more info about what doses over what time frame are involved in narcotic bowel syndrome, but I suspect it is one of those some people run into big trouble at doses that don't cause problems for others. It sounds to me, from what I've read, that time that you are using them may be as big a factor as what dose you take.K.

 

[Twocups424]

why isn't there as much of an outcry about antidepressants etc. everyone I know can get an antidepressant at the drop of a hat ( happy pills) and most always have a heck of a time withdrawing from those just as much. we are talking about a minimum dose of pain pills here to FUNCTION

 

[eric]

Narcotic bowel syndrome is pretty common, according to some of the IBS researchers and doctors I have talked with.The narcotics effect bowel receptors and slowly pain tolerence GOES DOWN, which is something you don't want with IBS.

 

[tltrull]

quote:Originally posted by Darice:Oh, I had no idea. What else would I use for the pain then. It is very bad. If I didnt have this medication I would never be able to leave the house because I would be laying on the floor in a ball all day. Thanks for the advice thought, I will talk to my doctor on our next visit.

Oh my, if I had to take percocet I could never leave because I would sleep all day. I had these after surgery and I finally told them no more...gimme just plain tylenol instead.I take Pamine(generic is METHSCOPOLAMINE) for the cramping and it works quite well. Its an anti-spasmodic, but works way better than all the others Ive tried. I take it before meals as a preventative and also if I have cramping at other times. I take 2.5mg. When I took Pamine Forte, they didnt come smaller than 5mg and I have to cut them in half because they were too strong.

 

[18275]

I've taken many narcotic drugs to "ease" the symptoms of the IBS, now I find that if I take a narcotic drug for my other IBS symptoms (joint pain mainly) it actually causes worse D the next day... So I stay away from them and try Naproxen now.

 

[18886]

Hello, I'm new here and found this thread interesting and have something to say. I have had chronic radiation enteritis and chronic radiation proctitis since 1999.My medications are codiene, lomotil and lidocaine gel. I have been on the codine and lomotil for the entire time. codeine 30mgs every 4 hours and lomoil 3 times daily with extras for what I call the breakthroughs.I have has of yet to experience any of the narcotic problems. Addiction is not a problem because when it is used for D control the dosage does not need to be increased.I'm still on the same dose as I was in '99 It can not be used for both the d control and pain control for long due to the fact the pain killing ability is gone unless you increase the dosage.The other side effects are also gone. The NIH and the American Cancer society both recommend peragoric for diarehha but my doctor and I decided that if I could get by on the lower dose codeine it would be better.j90shero, if your d and c is under control then it is better that you use the narcotics sparingly because you will run the risk of addiction as you body gets use to them and you need to increase the dosage to stop the pain.While percocet does stop the d, long term use of it for control of d will leave you needing much stronger narcotics if you ever do have the need for pain meds.I had a tooth pulled in Feb and had to have a script for 2 percocet every 4 hours for the pain because the codeine no longer works for pain. You are better off using the methods others here are talking about for pain and save the percocets for when you really need them.