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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know that there is such a thing as having a yeast overgrowth in your intestines. From what I understand, sugar feeds the problem, and causes yeast to grow even more.Now by sugar , I know it means processed sugars, like cakes, and breads. I assume that pasta, rice and fruit, along with some vegetables contain sugar as well. I know there is a way to eat so that you can detoxify your body, but other than meat, chicken fish and some veggies, what else is left to eat ?Another thing that contributes to this problem , are dairy products.I got up this morning to eat breakfast and everything was either a dairy product, or contained sugar. So I haven't eaten anything at all.I guess what I would like to know is, what can you eat , if you are trying to limit the yeast in your system ?Thanks for your help.Jeanne
 

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Hi Jeanne.Happy Boom Boom Day.You should find this link useful. http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook...ti-candida.html There is quite a bit of info, some conflicting, avaialble of dietary approaches to "candidiasis" and the outcoems are "variable". But if you put "candida diet" into any ol search engine, and look for diets which are along the lines of this one and which meet ADA minimum nutritional requirements, you will have enough guidance to put yourself on track.MNL
 

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quote:I know that there is such a thing as having a yeast overgrowth in your intestines. From what I understand, sugar feeds the problem, and causes yeast to grow even more.
Really, how would it do that? Think about this before you answer.
quote:I know there is a way to eat so that you can detoxify your body
No. Some (small) levels of toxins are normal. Toxins have nothing to do with yeast, so I don�t know why you bring that up here.
quote:Another thing that contributes to this problem , are dairy products.
How does it do that?
quote:I guess what I would like to know is, what can you eat , if you are trying to limit the yeast in your system ?
Live inside one of these
Is there anything here that makes sense?
 

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To Flux, there is no need to be rude or condescending to people and you are not the be all end all of information. I know people have felt irritated by you in the past myself included, please if you don't have anything constructive to say, leave it out, we who are symptomatic and searching for help do not appreciate your comments. Now with that off my chest to Jeanne D-my doc put me on a low carb diet which I have written about in the past. I eat no bread, pasta, rice, cakes, pies, potatoes, etc... The only thing I really eat with any substantial carbs are green plantains and whole wheat pita bread. I eat a lot of seafood, lean red meat, chicken, pork and fish. I eat some veggies and very little fruits. I have never felt better. The gas and diarrhea have for the most part disappeared. Only if I "cheat" do I become very symptomatic. My doctor told me that because my diet was so high in carbs it was basically fermenting, as yeast does, in my intestines causing serious bloating, gas and diarrhea. Look into the Atkins diet which is low carb. I don't eat a lot of fatty foods such as the Atkins Diet suggests, but you can have a modified Atkins Diet. But check with your doctor before trying the diet. Good Luck and feel better.
 

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Note: _______________________________________"Is there anything here that makes sense?" _______________________________________Perhaps not, but I will add something then which does..I suffered (2) episodes of exacerbation of my diarrheic-type IBS symptoms which were traced to intestinal candidiasis.I say (2) since the course of therapy suggests that the first course of antifungal therapy was not adequate. The remission following treatment was temporary, and I required a second more aggressive regimen.However, since that time (about 3-4 years back I forget) the problem has not returned.Indeed there is great controversy over what constitutes a real case of intestinal candidiasis, how to diagnose it, and whether anti-candida diets are effective at all, whither and with whom they should be attempted, the whole area is controversial.But for an IBS patient to be interested in learning about it as a possible basis for some of their symptoms is not a clinical sign of intrinsic stupidity nor does it give one license to address the person as if they are a moron. It just shows a desire for education being expressed. We cannot educate the person we offend. Well, not usually anyway.
Eat well. Think well. Be well.MNL
 

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I would like to point out one of Flux's misinformation in his post:
quote: Really, how would it do that? Think about this before you answer.
In an article by Dr Jennifer Lively, Dr. Jim Jenks, and Dr. Jack Richason, they stated:
quote: Eat a low carbohydrate diet with no more than 60-80 grams of carbohydrate per day. Because yeast feeds on sugar, wheat and dairy products they should be avoided. Yeasts, molds and fungi cross react so yeast products should be avoided such as vinegar, mushrooms, cheeses, commercial breads and alcohol
You can also read the entire article by going to: http://www.joyfullivingservices.com/candidahandout.html I would be vary careful and vary with most of Flux's statements in future. He misinforms regularly.Richard
 

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quote:Eat a low carbohydrate diet with no more than 60-80 grams of carbohydrate per day. Because yeast feeds on sugar, wheat and dairy products they should be avoided. Yeasts, molds and fungi cross react so yeast products should be avoided such as vinegar, mushrooms, cheeses, commercial breads and alcoho
This is
First off, what organism is there that does not feed off sugar? Can you name any?Second, isn't humans� consuming sugar is part of our natural diet? Under what medical situation have you been ever told (other than the silly one above) not to consume it ? For example, would you stop consuming sugar if you had a sore throat? Ear infection? A stomach flu? Should we just stop consuming sugar altogether?To be accurate, there is a bonafide circumstance where sugar is involved in pathogensis: tooth decay. Bacteria (we have a lot of those in our guts and mouths) consume primarily sugar. In fact, the yeast can't begin to compete with their voracious appetite for it, so that�s why yest in the mouth is generally not a problem.Third, now where sugar is suppsoedly to get involved with yeast is not clear, but say for the moment that that is in the gut. Well, the stomach and upper gut are nearly sterile. So it can't be there. And after that point, simple sugars are absorbed into the bloodstream so it can�t be in the mid-gut. In the colon, a fair portion of undigestible carbs are, in fact, present, but what lives there? Guess what? Bacteria. Lots of them. Trillions. Yeast count is probably not even a thousandth of that. But bacteria living there are not harming you. They are mainly there to eat the sugar and protect you against real pathogens, which are mainly other bacteria. I wonder if it is in the blood. There is sugar there. Only problem is that if yeast got a chance to grow there they would probably kill you in a few days.Fourth, what's the deal with the particular range of 60-80 grams? Are the yeast wherever they are supposed to be to ignore this amount which don�t have much access to anyway?Fifth, I don�t know of any connection between pathogenic yeast and non-pathogenic ones? What is the significance of a cross-reaction?Sixth, when yeast do cause a problem because the immune system is sick or busy, guess what they eat? You
 

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quote: First off, what organism is there that does not feed off sugar? Can you name any?
Please provide substantiated backup by a credible or qualified medical professional for the above statement. Otherwise, it is merely your misinformed opinion and I will not respond to it.
quote:Second, isn't humans� consuming sugar is part of our natural diet? Under what medical situation have you been ever told (other than the silly one above) not to consume it ?
Again, another misinformed and unsubstantiated statement from you - in fact downright incorrect!!I know of many who do not consume sugar as part of their natural diet. A lot of diabetics (type-2) do not take sugar in the raw or simple form.
quote: Third, now where sugar is suppsoedly to get involved with yeast is not clear, but say for the moment that that is in the gut. Well, the stomach and upper gut are nearly sterile. So it can't be there. And after that point, simple sugars are absorbed into the bloodstream so it can�t be in the mid-gut. In the colon, a fair portion of undigestible carbs are, in fact, present, but what lives there? Guess what? Bacteria. Lots of them. Trillions. Yeast count is probably not even a thousandth of that. But bacteria living there are not harming you. They are mainly there to eat the sugar and protect you against real pathogens, which are mainly other bacteria. I wonder if it is in the blood. There is sugar there. Only problem is that if yeast got a chance to grow there they would probably kill you in a few days.
Furhter major statements of misinformation. You are not sure of the above facts, so please do not use them unless you can substantiate them!! As to the last sentence:
quote: I wonder if it is in the blood. There is sugar there. Only problem is that if yeast got a chance to grow there they would probably kill you in a few days.
I know that yeast do get into the blood and live there. I have personally been shown and seen a magnification of "live" blood (ie within 30 min of extraction) where yeast (including excessive yeast) presence and shown up in blood. This is also preliminary blood tests done by a hospital group based in Tjuana - American Biologics Hospital Group using Dr Bradford's microscopy.Finally, it is interesting that you, a lay person totally unqualified and uneducated in the medical sciences, are calling my rebuttal of your statement "preposterous and other things"! You would be the least qualified to do so as the information was written by three qualified doctors specialised in dealing with yeast infection.First of all you scorned at someone who asked if sugar would feed the yeast and yet now you seemed to have said otherwise??In future, I would suggest that you provide qualified substantiation of your statements before you make any more misinformed postings.Everyone who comes here are uncertain of information and was hoping through discussion and otherwise, to learn. We do not need your arrogance in correcting by posting information gleaned from reading of books, etc. You are probably not trained or qualified to properly understand what you read and should therefore refrained from what you do. If you had been a retired doctor or some medicial personnel, at least we can tolerate your "bigoted and blinkered" opinion - unfortunately and sadly NO!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I read the response from Flux, and of course I don't agree with his opinion, although he is entitled to express it.I would appreciate it if he would be a little more considerate, and simply present the facts as he sees them.C'mon Flux.... some manners would be nice.I thank you for all your responses and for defending me. I have found some very useful info.. so thanks to those of you who took the time to provide some answers for me.Jeanne
 

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quote:quote:------------------------------------------------------------------------First off, what organism is there that does not feed off sugar? Can you name any?------------------------------------------------------------------------Please provide substantiated backup by a credible or qualified medical professional for the above statement. Otherwise, it is merely your misinformed opinion and I will not respond to it.
Question, not statement. The onus for substantation is always on those making the outrageous claim.
quote:quote:------------------------------------------------------------------------Second, isn't humans� consuming sugar is part of our natural diet? Under what medical situation have you been ever told (other than the silly one above) not to consume it ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------Again, another misinformed and unsubstantiated statement from you - in fact downright incorrect!!I know of many who do not consume sugar as part of their natural diet. A lot of diabetics (type-2) do not take sugar in the raw or simple form.
Can you name of any one person in the world who does not? Before you do consider that I count all monosaccharides and disaccharides. And remember since this claim is outrageous....
quote:quote:------------------------------------------------------------------------Third, now where sugar is suppsoedly to get involved with yeast is not clear, but say for the moment that that is in the gut. Well, the stomach and upper gut are nearly sterile. So it can't be there. And after that point, simple sugars are absorbed into the bloodstream so it can�t be in the mid-gut. In the colon, a fair portion of undigestible carbs are, in fact, present, but what lives there? Guess what? Bacteria. Lots of them. Trillions. Yeast count is probably not even a thousandth of that. But bacteria living there are not harming you. They are mainly there to eat the sugar and protect you against real pathogens, which are mainly other bacteria. I wonder if it is in the blood. There is sugar there. Only problem is that if yeast got a chance to grow there they would probably kill you in a few days.------------------------------------------------------------------------Furhter major statements of misinformation.
This information is just out of any standard human physiology text. Do you think that our scientists have all been lying to us?
quote:quote:------------------------------------------------------------------------I wonder if it is in the blood. There is sugar there. Only problem is that if yeast got a chance to grow there they would probably kill you in a few days.------------------------------------------------------------------------I know that yeast do get into the blood and live there. I have personally been shown and seen a magnification of "live" blood (ie within 30 min of
Live blood cell analysis is
More details are at http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelate...s/livecell.html
 

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Jeanne D, Thanks for asking important questions about yeast. I've been looking for some additional info re: candidiasis. Mike NoLomotil, poeticalms, kkshedevil, osumex, and CaseyL: thanks for the intelligent responses. Most helpful.
 

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Random remarks before retiring from the discussion:There is one advantage to Flux's penchant for dramatic graphics, it makes it easy to refer people to what he posted.
In the MISSION PREPOSTEROUS post, (apologies, I am sure, to Tom Cruise, Peter Graves, et al) if one will resist allowing their hackles to be raised by, uh, "evocative challenges to your intellect" the information he posts about yeast, physiology of gut flora, digestion of complex sugars (saccharides) and all the rest is accurate and instructive.As I said the subject is very contentious, among those interested enough to talk about it or counsel the sick about it. The primary reason is that there is great great great difficulty in doing detailed visual real-time in vivo study of all aspects of this potential pathogenic process due to the nature of where it occurs, and the very nature of the gut flora and their role in digestive and normal immune function.There is one thing that Flux posted that we need to take away from the conversation if it just ended now in a quandry over who "owns the high-ground" of knowledge on the subject. Keep this in mind.It's so concise I wish I had said it myself: ________________________________________"when yeast do cause a problem because the immune system is sick or busy, guess what they eat? You" _______________________________________Simplified, this is the crux of the problem with all the "anti yeast diets" all the way back to classic book on the subject whose torn and tattered pages I hold in my hand at this moment "The Candida Control Cookbook" by Gail Burton (1989?).I mean I hate to say it, I hate to challenge all that is said and claimed by those who contrive diets with the good intention of helping those either truly afflicted or possibly afflicted by intestinal candidiasis as a possible etiologic basis for their symptoms. But I have to becasue it seems to be fact.I will first suggest that we all consider this from the perspective that the prevalence of this problem IS overstated…. It is very very difficult to come to Agreement over how to make a diagnostic determination . But having spent many years working with doctors and dieticians of "all opinions" and "all experimental protocols" and "100% willing to try anything" when presented with the symptoms we call IBS, if you really follow the few people who are able to adhere to one of the anti-fungal diet protocols long term the outcomes are not compelling. In fact, they are rather disappointing. And if you include the patients who attrit from the protocol(s), they seem futile in the many patients I have had the opportunity to observe trying to adhere to same.Plus, when utilizing some tools that are not widely available yet within the allopathic medical community for assessing cellular immune responses but eventually will be, it appears that the dietary modifications made that patients respond to are less related to anything to do with "not providing a medium of growth of gut yeats re: nutrients, for intestinal yeasts" than they are simply the laws of probability of removing certain chemicals (in and out of foods, naturally occurring and additives) from the diet to which the patient is (for some reason) sensitive, or that the patient shows some either actual allergy to, or some other of many possible mechanisms KNOWN which could be precipitating the symptoms that were interpreted as "yeast overgrowth".The bottom line is as Flux said above in simple terms…(and sometimes the simplest terms cary the greatest educational value)…If one does end up with a "pathogenic yeast overgrowth" it is probably due to one or more of the delicately balanced components of the bodies first line of defense, the complex "intestinal and systemic immune system interaction" not functioning properly, the yeast "eats you"…and frankly could not care less how much sugar you do or do not ingest. This truly is, all kidding and acidic interplay aside, at the root of why if you have this pathology altering the diet for it just does not have the direct-effect on candida-turned-pathogen that is often hoped. She is busy invading the tissue not gobbling up saccharides in the intestinal effluvia.Now that is not to say that in all of the diets there may not be instructions which do help symptoms in some people to some degree, but the mechanisms by which this benefit is realized would seem to be elsewhere.Sadly, it is a lot like the use of skin testing for food allergies. A lot of allergists have done it since time eternal. A lot of people have had them. A lot of diets have been changed. Some get better, some experience no change. Some get worse. Why? Well, its not an accurate way of diagnosing actual food allergy. Period. It's just not debatable when it's a fact. You would have to oral challenge everything to be sure of which are really positive and which are not. It is in fact easier and at least as accurate to make a list of foods on a piece of paper, give the doctor a coin and the patient a coin, then let them flip. If they both come up the same, call it allergy, if they come up different call it negative. Then adjust the diet accordingly. You will get the same results if you did this to 1,000 people. Some will get better, some will not, some will get worse. Sux that third party payer don't reimburse for this...no procedure code. Same with dietary changes for suspected candidiasis. Like SPT, that does not mean the physiologic basis for it is sound. Honest! Like I said………..controversial at best.Oh jeez "dark field microscopy"...don't wanna go there.
This thread is tough enough as it is. (But HINT: Live pathogens populating the plasma = sepsis = massive immune response. The plasma HAS no flora. So, what ARE we actually seeing when the microscopist "interprets"? What would account for the absence of , in simplest terms, a massive immunologic response to the presence of organisms in the plasma which would provoke that expected response? ). here is another subject which is controversial at best.
Anyway ya'll eat well, think well and be well. And if compelling evidence does exist that you do suffer this problem, I suggest you and your doctor consider just letting you take the drugs.I am out of the thread before "The Flaming" erupts...
MNLMNL(What the hell...is there an echo in here??
)
 

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MNLI appreciate what you have said and you prefer to err on the side of conversatism. You would prefer to work with medical experience and historical diagnosis of the medical industry.However, I believe we need to be controversial to stimulate discussion and perhaps a new treatment? If you look back at the medical fraternity historically, new findings and treatments are generally not accepted by the establishment until "proven beyond doubt, maybe even reasonable doubt"?? In the end, such initially controversial treatment when it works will be embraced by the masses and in the end the medical establishment.Furthermore, I believe this board is designed to support those who had sought treatment from traditional conversative mainstream medicine but have not found relief. I believe such unfortunate individuals are prepared to consider alternatives, not mainstream tried and tested cures as it did not help them. Otherwise, they do not need the counsel of you or anyones else, they can go to their own professional healthcare person who would have a much better idea of their history of illness.Like I said, to each his own - one man's meat another man's poison - and no one has the right to impose his will on another. We merely try to help in a helpful and friendly manner. No one - not a single person, least of all FLUX - can claim that he knows all and everything else is incorrect merely he disagreed with an opinion.I feel that I am merely wasting my time on this forum and wish all well and that they succeed in seeking a treatment for their maladies.Take care n goodbye
 

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Osumex, First off..You're not wasting your time on this forum. You're providing good info & givingpeople other options for there IBS. Yes..most Drs. won't agree with you, but like you said thats howit always is with different therapy's. Getting into a "debate" with Flux or anyone else on this boardshould not be the main reason your here. Sharing info, giving people hope and being supportive!!IBS is a miserable condition, I've had this now 20 years!! its affected by social life, family, work andpretty much everything!! I don't agree with the current "treatments" for IBS. But, when someone postsinfo that I don't agree with. ..I'm not going to post a stupid graphic, or get into some half-ass debate. Wesimply have a difference of opinion. Period!!!! Next Post!! Flux has put out some good info, yes he's sarcastic as hell at times, but he's got some good understanding of the GI Tract. I don't think this forum should be about who's "right" "Wrong" we have enough worries like surviving this F** Miserable condition!!!!
 

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OS-U-MEX-ICAN!!Just in case you are lurking (I could not get here yesterday): ____________________________________"However, I believe we need to be controversial to stimulate discussion and perhaps a new treatment? If you look back at the medical fraternity historically, new findings and treatments are generally not accepted by the establishment until "proven beyond doubt, maybe even reasonable doubt"??" _____________________________________Oh I never said we should not be controversial. Anyone know me to duck a controversy? I hope you do not misunderstand me. I am trying to be objective AND point out what you say is true. Certain conditions which are not wholly understood are almost always controversial while the knowledge is evolving. This is merely another. Folks get sometimes kind of emotional, like religion or politics, when it is a subject where there is "wiggle room".
Beleive me, when it comes to pioneering new things and new ideas which run contrary to the common wisdom or current opinion, the doctors and others I work with are classic examples of that...as am I. Ask who was (one of) the first to have the quacking ducks and Martian pictures dog everything they (I) posted?
So in this case, you be "preaching to the choir" ...so why be so disenchanted as to announce a departure?We can please some of the people some of the time, and some of the people none of the time...and we sure can't please mom....but we love her anyway!Stick around and stimulate your mind!
Eat well, think well, be well!MNL
 
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