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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Effect of Probioticson(Trevis R)Bloating in IBS:http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00368758?order=23
quote:The objective of this study is to establish a model for screening probiotic bacteria in the treatment of meteorism symptoms (feeling of air in the stomach) with otherwise healthy adult women. --->As excessive bacterial gas production in the intestine is the most likely mechanism behind meteorism, we will examine eventual changes of the production of gases (hydrogen and methane) before and after administration of Trevis®.
Lewitt research quote in the link
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15238205Treatment of Excessive Intestinal Gas.Azpiroz F, Serra J. Digestive System Research Unit, Hospital General Vall d"Hebron, 08035 Barcelona, Spain Fernando.azpiroz###wol.esSymptoms of excessive intestinal gas may be related to eructation, excessive or odoriferous gas evacuation, and/or abdominal symptom attributed to gas retention. Patients with aerophagia and excessive eructation can be usually retrained to control air swallowing, but if present, basal dyspeptic symptoms may remain. Patients with excessive or odoriferous gas evacuation may benefit from a low-flatulogenic diet. In patients with gas retention due to impaired anal evacuation, anal incoordination can be resolved by biofeedback treatment, which also improves fecal retention, and thereby reduces the time for fermentation. Other patients complaining of abdominal symptoms that they attribute to intestinal gas, probably have irritable bowel syndrome or functional bloating, and their treatment options specifically targeting gas-related symptoms basically include prokinetics and spasmolytics. There is no consistent evidence to support the use of gas-reducing substances, such as charcoal or simethicone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12095473Aerophagia and Intestinal Gas.Quigley EM.Dept. of Medicine, Clinical Sciences Building, Cork University Hospital, Cork, Ireland. E-mail: e.quigley###ucc.ieAerophagia refers to a rather rare disorder that may occur in both children and adults that features repetitive air swallowing and belching and that may result in abdominal distention. There are few, if any, controlled studies to guide therapy, which remains largely supportive but may include behavioral therapy and psychotherapy. Bloating, distention, and other gas-related symptoms are common in functional gastrointestinal disorders, including the irritable bowel syndrome; their pathophysiology remains, for the most part, poorly understood. Two separate phenomena need to be distinguished in these disorders: gas production and gas perception. Thus, whereas gas production, which relates most closely to flatus emissions, is probably within the normal range in most patients with irritable bowel syndrome, gas transport or transit through the gut may be impaired and may lead to the retention of gas within segments of the gut. Visceral hypersensitivity, a common phenomenon in all functional disorders, may exacerbate the sensation of distention and contribute to other "gas-related" symptoms. Few controlled studies have addressed any of these issues. Although, on an empiric basis, dietary therapy may be partially effective in some situations, there is at present no data to support the use of any form of pharmacologic, endoscopic, or surgical therapy for any of these symptoms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=158629341: Gastroenterol Clin North Am. 2005 Jun;34(2):257-69. Links The pathogenesis of bloating and visible distension in irritable bowel syndrome.Azpiroz F, Malagelada JR. University Hospital Vall d'Hebron, Autonomous University of Barcelona, PG Vall d'Hebron S/N, Barcelona 08035, Spain. fernando.azpiroz###wol.esAbdominal bloating is a relevant, troublesome, and poorly understood clinical problem. Despite its clinical importance, bloating remains substantially ignored, without proper clinical classification, known pathophysiology, and effective treatment. It is not even clear to what extent the complaints of individual patients correlate with objective evidence of abdominal distension, and this uncertainly regarding the subjective or objective origin of the complaints further adds to confusion. This article proposed a framework for investigating bloating, considering key factors potentially involved in its pathophysiology: distorted sensation, physical abdominal expansion, and abdominal wall dystony. Some data indicate that patients complaining of bloating have impaired transit and tolerance of intestinal gas loads. The problem does not seem to be too much gas,however, but rather abnormal responses to gas. Furthermore, abnormal control of abdominal muscle activity in these patients may contribute to objective distension. Bloating, like many other abdominal symptoms,probably represents a heterogeneous condition produced by a combination of pathophysiological mechanisms that differ among individual patients,resulting in a polymorphic clinical presentation.
 

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What is there to dive in about? I don't see anything new.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
quote:--->As excessive bacterial gas production in the intestine is the most likely mechanism behind meteorism
I was hoping to raise a debate
It's almost ridiculous.Holding urin flare my IBS.
 

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[/quote]I was hoping to raise a debate[/quote]IBSers don't have gas, so there's nothing to debate.
quote:It's almost ridiculous.Holding urin flare my IBS.
Actually, that's not ridiculous. Cells talk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
quote:Originally posted by flux:
I was hoping to raise a debate[/quote]IBSers don't have gas, so there's nothing to debate.Actually,i think some have excessive gas.Perhaps not easily detected because associated to diet or other primal defect.
quote:It's almost ridiculous.Holding urin flare my IBS.
Actually, that's not ridiculous. Cells talk.[/QUOTE]I was reading a website on pain.Yeah like burning pain originate from the base of the bladder or very close to it.Any clue on that?
 

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quote:Actually,i think some have excessive gas.Perhaps not easily detected
The excessiveness of the gas in and of itself makes it readily detectable.
quote:Yeah like burning pain originate from the base of the bladder or very close to it.Any clue on that?
Could be referred pain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
quote:Originally posted by flux:
quote:Actually,i think some have excessive gas.Perhaps not easily detected
The excessiveness of the gas in and of itself makes it readily detectable. Could it be a reaction to pain or a desesperate attemps to conteract constipation from the body itself?
quote:Yeah like burning pain originate from the base of the bladder or very close to it.Any clue on that?
Could be referred pain.
Is it possible to detect any tear or damage from diagnosis test?Ultra-sound of my full bladder revealed nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
http://www.painonline.org/peri.htmPeristalic or Visceral PainCentral Pain In The Hollow Organs The gut does not burn, not even protopathic burning, and there is some debate about whether to consider nausea or cramping as the gut's counterpart of burning. Consequently the question of whether Central Pain creates gut dysesthesia remains unanswered. However, such abdominal pains as are present are clearly hyperpathic, for example the full bladder burns intensely in Central Pain and the bowels may feel as if they are going to explode. Following Bowsher's criteria, dysesthesia includes burning. However, this definition was created for simplicity of diagnosis so non-pain specialists would recognize Central Pain. The definition was intended to be pared to the bone and was not all inclusive. Since digestive viscera do not burn in Central Pain but do manifest fullness, cramping, and nausea, the increase in the same may be hyperpathic, or it may likely be the only way the gut can display dysesthesia. As in other parts of the body and in the bladder, inappropriate abdominal pain probably reflects both dysesthetic and hyperpathic components. The autonomic nervous system, which is poorly understood, conveys pain from hollow organs. A definition of Central Pain based on the nociceptive process in the skin may not have a good fit for describing Central Pain in the gut. We need further knowledge to speak confidently in this area. Central Pain patients do have increased complaint of "acid stomach" but considering their intense suffering, it is not determined whether this is a hyperpathic response to esophageal reflux, or is in fact, a type of dysesthesia.. The gut then, does not burn, but that is practically the only pain the bladder can produce. In the bladder, which does burn, it is very tempting to term the sensation as dysesthetic. Here again, one must be careful, since the burning in the bladder might simply be hyperpathic. However, there are enough Central Pain patients who term the bladder burning "creepy" to suspect it is dysesthetic, at least so far as that term applies to autonomic pain. Bladder Central Pain feels like a dysesthetic urinary tract infection, with considerable discomfort. The patient has a startling urge to void, which is unpredictable and not unlike a spastic bladder. The patient generally must carry a receptacle for immediate voiding to relieve the pain. Pain during orgasm has also been reported, but pain from touch on skin surfaces is the major problem during physical relations. In the gut the sensation of pain as urge to defecate is located in the rectum, and is precipitated by the presence of stool or flatus. The Central Pain patient must remain close to a toilet because the sudden urge to defecate can be tremendous. The problem is exacerbated due to sensory loss at the rectum. This prevents awareness that stool is present. Soilage from soft stools can be one more discouraging aspect of Central Pain. Although pain receives most of the attention, sensory loss certainly contributes to the clinical picture. The problem again is that because the doctor encounters complaint of pain from touch in a given area, he is often unaware that touch is impaired in the patient. Von Frey hairs can demonstrate the loss, but are seldom used in this hurried-up age of "managed care". Sensory Dysuria and Sensory Fecal Incontinence Soilage is an occasional problem for the same reason as above. This is sensory incontinence; inadequate sensory input to alert the patient to the presence of stool at the rectal sphincter. This is a definite problem socially and prevents mobility for the patient. Visceral hyperpathia is also present in both the digestive and tracts, which means that when the bladder becomes full or when stool is ready to be expelled, the patient is unaware of this at the normal threshold of sensation, but becomes aware late and the sensation is powerful, in a sort of crisis.When the signal does appear, the signal has "delay with overshoot". It is wildly overblown, and it is also dysesthetic (the bladder burns unbearably) creating an irresistible urge to urinate, or as the case may be, to defecate. This is in addition to the fact that because of the subtle sensory loss, the patient is missing the alerting message in people without Central Pain that the bladder is about to be full or that the sigmoid is nearly full of stool. Many embarrassing social moments will afflict these patients. It prevents going to meetings or buildings where sudden resort to the restroom in unavailable. This also restricts car travel.Patients deal with the problem by paying very close attention to sensation from the bladder and rectum, by fasting prior to trips or before going out, and by staying home except for important events. Occasional failures are nevertheless inevitable, particularly if the stool becomes soft, providing little or no warning of its presence in the rectum. Diarrhea is certain to cause embarrassment. Amitryptiline is popular among Central Pain patients, not only because it makes dysesthetic burning on the skin more bearable, but also because it lessens the hyperpathic pain of bladder distention.
 

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quote:Could it be a reaction to pain or a desesperate attemps to conteract constipation from the body itself?
What be a reaction to pain? I don't get it. I thought you were talking about gas.
quote:Is it possible to detect any tear or damage from diagnosis test?
I don't think you'd need a test to diagnosis it. It would be pretty obvious without any test.
 

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There is no mechanism by which a pain signal or reaction to constipation would generate gas in the colon
I mean you don't release chemicals that cause the lining of the colon to generate and release gas into the colon under any conditions, not even when you are in pain.Gas volume in the colon is made by bacteria that are not feeling your pain, or discomfort from constipation, out of food you do not have the ability to digest even if you are totally pain free and not constipated at all. In a few cases the gas is from the atmosphere which is not sucked in there by pain or constipation, either.Remember, pain and discomfort may be from any number of stimuli. If you do not fart more than normal there is not more gas than normal regardless of what you are feeling. Now normal volumes of gas may be bothersome to some IBSers so reducing the gas volume below normal may be helpful for some.K.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I understand It's hard to beleive Kathleen but it often start like that.Pain/sensitization--->bowel disturbanceFlux this pelvic pain website says:
quote:Treatment prescriptions may include: Pain medications and injections to treat inflammation, muscle spasms and nerve pain
http://www.aapmr.org/condtreat/pain/chronicpelvicpain.htmAny thougths on that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
quote:I don't think you'd need a test to diagnosis it. It would be pretty obvious without any test.
Flux,i've heard the term refered pain before by the mouth of a hernia doctor.What is it?And why are you convinced that no test are needed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That's interesting but it could be confusing for diagnosis.
 

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It would be if it were totally random.However most humans are wired with nerves in approximately the same way, so there are particular patterns to it that make it easier than one might think.Gall bladder pain doesn't show up in the hip or shoulder, always the upper back by the shoulder blade, the sciatic nerve, even though the problem is usually in the back makes the pain go down the leg, not up the back or in an arm, etc.
 
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