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quoteo you still suffer from spasms

How could one tell if they were having a spasm?

 

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quoteerhaps due to the pain often associated with the spasm ?

Logic?

 

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quote:know they are having a spasm by the pain. Don't you agree ?

No, because you haven't defined what a spasm is or how having pain automatically leads one to conclude there is a "spasm" present. What if you take the pain away? Then how do you know?

quote:You can tell when things feel like they are tightening up

This makes a lot more sense because you are ascribing a spasm to a particular sensation that is not pain. Do others perceive a spasm as a tightening sensation?

 

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quote:sometimes there is like the feeling of flickering sensation if that makes any sense, but there are some

quote:I gotta tell you though I can feel it sometimes jumping around down

Would you be surprised if I said these things don�t sound like IBS?There is a difference between pain and somatic sensations (meaning someone else could feel them, although there are pure sensations like itching that also count) because they use different nerve pathways back to the brain. And the latter suggest there is something physically happening abnormal inside gut.. Simply run and up the stairs for several flights and you can feel your heart beating through your chest. This is not pain, for example and it correlates very well to what the heart is actually doing.This difference is significant because a large part of what we think is going on in IBS is visceral hypersensitivity, which implies nothing abnormal is happening with the gut's motor behavior.

quote:is not the tighteneing just a pain of minimal intensity, becuase how would you know it is tightening otherwise ?

I'm not sure how the tigtening sensation is conveyed exactly. I am not so sure it is via pain pathways.

 

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quote:Intestinal spasms are indeed associated with IBS.

No, IBS is a diagnosis based on symptoms not on a specific motor physiology. In general, specific dysmotility is something that scientists have not been able to associate with IBS. Even visceral hypersensitivity doesn�t show up in all cases: hence the reason the diagnosis is based on symptoms and the reason the term "spastic colon" was dropped. Once a specific motor problem is found then that is the problem and not IBS.

 

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quote: IBS is definitely associated with colon spasms.

No, IBS is a term invented by doctors based soley on symptoms, and it covers what are almost certainly many disparate disorders. In many cases, there is no physical motor correlate in the gut. Once something like "spasms", whatever that really is, is detected, the diagnosis should be changed. Lotronex in a sense causes spasms.Loperamide/Lomotil definitely causes spasms (tonic contraction at sphincters).

quote:When I get these, I take Bentyl or Librax which immediately relieves the spasms

So would you consider taking these other drugs instead?

 

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quote:Now my questions are what are your thoughts on the pain ? If that pain is brought about by a suddencontraction of the muscles in the gut (a 'spasm') then do you not think that a spasm IS (or should be made) a symptom of IBS (assuming that definate physical recording of the spasm can be made).

The definition of IBS is based on the fact that enough patients are reporting similar symptoms that the experts have felt (presumably while enjoying the sights and food in Rome

constitute a single entity they term IBS.The goal is here is to identify a specfic disease state so that doctors in practice can diagnose IBS and follow a specific protocol for treatment.The reason that symptoms are used is largely because there is no one physiological correlate that is present in everyone who reports these symptoms. If it were found to be the case that every IBS subject had a particular abnormal physiological correlate, such as spasms, I think the experts would incorporate this into Rome. At that point, IBS is technically no longer is a syndrome but a disease.In actuality, the Rome criteria as it stands almost certainly includes persons who have something that will ultimately be the "true" IBS and others who have something that is not IBS.Currently, many, but not all, IBS subjects who have been tested have visceral hypersensitivity, which is measured using a barostat in the rectum. These IBS subjects feel pain at slight distension of the barostat while healthy people do not.So it is a possibility that the next "version" of Rome: Rome 3.0 will formally name a specific irritable bowel disease.

quoteo you feel there are other reasons for the pain often associated with an IBS 'diagnosis' ?

Not sure what you mean, the cause of the pain being the result of something other than visceral hypersensitivity? If so, I tend to think that the pain is mainly due to visceral hypersensitivity. However, it is conceivable that a particular person's disease could be affecting motility as well and the two be present simultaneously.

quote:"Once something like "spasms", whatever that really is, is detected, the diagnosis should be changed.", do you have any suggestions as to what that diagnosis should be changed to ?

Currently, our means of studying gut motility is pretty pathetic. The intestine is about 30 feet long but most motility testing looks at just the first and last two feet of that. In addtion, most people with IBS symptoms do not even get these tests. Even with the limited testing, there are a number of specific motily disordersdiffuse esophageal spasmachalasiaGERDgastroparesispseudo-obstructionslow-transit constipationpelvic floor dysfunctionHirschprung's disease