[SteveE]

I recently had a moderate flare-up. I don't know what triggered it, but I know that some mildly spicey foods that usually don't cause problems now seem like they might be making the flare-up a little worse. My question to everyone here is: what do you guys do to flavor your foods? Are there certain spices that work and others that don't?

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

Depends on the patient...tolerance to spices is highly patient specific. I have observed IBS-d types who can eat ANY spice even hot chili powders and others who cannot take anything....and everything in between. At one point I used only one flavoring for a protracted time: salt. Cannot "react" to it.The pattern of observation that "hot spicy food is bad for IBS" like many beliefs often comes from observing the response of a bowel whose tissues are chronically loaded with proinflammtory mediators which upregulate neuromotor response. Hence the observation that in some people even a glass of cold water can precipitate symptoms. Twitchy bowel, like the twicthy airways of asthma and for similar reasons.Stop the mediator release and restore the gut wall to its normative state and a lot of APPARENT sensitivity or intolerence disappears. Isolate what provokes the release of mediators in that specific person and avoid them and indeed normal bowel function can be achieved and you can find then what the person actually does tolerate physiologically from their normative state, and what she does not.You can get a probabilities list, though, from the population that lives here by encouraging everyone to list their observed or apparent spice tolerance and intolerance in a thread like this, which can be interesting.MNL

 

[modular mary]

i usually avoid spicy stuff just to be on the safe side, but what bugs me is, for example, there is a box mix of lentils and rice that has just a few spices added to it....i ate it one time and it was yummy and went through like a charm....the next time i ate it, i could tell right away that the spices were bothering me...what gives?....it sometimes feels like IBS is deliberatly psych-ing me out for "its" own wicked amusementblah!mm

 

[eric]

Steve, I don't know if you know this or not but I have been a chef formany years now.Black peper is one steve, and you should look at the tiny barbs on cayenne spice under a miscrosope sometime, they look like little fish hooks.However, how do you really know it was a food and not something else contributing to a flare up or perhaps food and other reasons?"This abnormality is an increased sensitivity of sensors within the bowel wall. This internal hypersensitivity is comparable to what occurs when you have a sunburn; the slightest touch or even breeze can be painful while unburned skin will hardly feel the same stimulus. For someone with the hypersensitivity, normal contraction and expansion of the rectum or colon can result in intense sensations. It therefore appears that most of the symptoms of IBS are due to an excessive perception of internal sensations. Frequently, other symptoms of hyper-sensitivity are associated with IBS. A patient may experience headaches, lower back pain, or pain during intercourse. This may be related to the fact that whatever mechanisms cause the hypersensitivity in the colon can also have the same effect on other parts of the body. Why this hypersensitivity develops is not yet understood. There may be genetic factors that make an individual susceptible to this problem. However, once someone is susceptible, factors in that person's environment become the most important triggers and aggravating forces. What affects the problem? Even just drinking water can cause bloating in some patients. For others, specific food items may cause or be related to distension of the stomach. Spices, milk products, artificial sweeteners, acids, and fats all interact with the same nerve receptors in the gut that are affected by IBS. Unresolved emotional problems, interrupted sleep patterns, grieving, depression, and anxiety can also trigger symptoms. So can situations an individual may perceive (consciously or unconsciously) as stressful. Most often, symptoms are triggered by a combination of factors." http://www.healthcare.ucla.edu/pls/ibs.htm

 

[SteveE]

I suppose you're right, eric, I guess I don't know. I suspect the spices have made the flare-up more difficult, though. Without getting too graphic, I guess there are certain "consequences and repercussions" to quote Eddie Murphy in one of his many roles that happen to varying degrees when I go for the Italian or Mexican foods. When I'm not having a flare-up, those consequences and repercussions are minimal, but when the flare-up is on, they are exaggerated. I guess I was trying to see if there are some ways of flavoring the old standards--like a boneless chicken breast, for example, that is tastey, but will also minimize the "consequences and repercussions."And since you are a chef, eric, your best technique for getting a chicken breast done to satisfaction would be greatly appreciated. I can't seem to get them right at home.Mike--perhaps that explains why the "consequences and repercussions" are minimized when a "flare-up" is not in session.mm--Lentils!? Ugh...I don't care for those either. One of the worst bouts of IBS came after some lentil soup. Perhaps a coincidence, but never again. I didn't find the flavor to my liking anyway.May your turkeys all be flavorful and digestable and not cause you any consequences and repercussions. Ok...I'll get off of that kick now

.

 

[eric]

Steve, I just recently posted a lot of chicken recipes and a few salad recipes in the food forum. You may have to add or delete some of the ingredients, but there are a few to choose from http://www.ibsgroup.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php...ic;f=4;t=000498 Happy Thanksgiving to you to, and don't be bothered to much from Mike's comments on the recipe thread to reactive, the bowel is reactive to everything, IBS is not a food problem of course, but some foods just act as a triggers individually and chemically, like fats for one. So when you cook that chicken breast, cut all the fat off it too.

Size of a meal can matter a lot so be careful on T-day.

 

[Susan Purry]

Hi SteveE

quote:My question to everyone here is: what do you guys do to flavor your foods? Are there certain spices that work and others that don't?

My experience is that Chillie, Paprika and Cayenne Pepper cause cramps and diarrhoea in me. Every other spice and aromatic is fine for me. I use black pepper often. I make curries with Tumeric and Cumin rather than with chilli, so the curry is spicy in an aromatic and flavourful sense, rather than hot and spicy. I use a lot of herbs as well, particularly with vegetables, for example, basil, thyme, marjoram, oregano, bay, Herbs de Provence. Those sorts of herbs and spices give lovely flavour and interest to my food without aggravating the IBS. I really recommend Elizabeth David's thorough and informative book 'Spices, Salt and Aromatics in the English Kitchen'. It gives info about the spices and herbs, their history of use and recipies: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/014...5483647-9082459 http://www.justcookbooks.com/detail/01/0140461639.shtml Happy cooking!

 

[Susan Purry]

P.S

I guess I was trying to see if there are some ways of flavoring the old standards--like a boneless chicken breast[/quoteYes! I poach chicken (simmer gently in a saucepan, in just enough water to cover, for 25 to 30 minutes) with bay leaves (fresh or dried), or with sage (dried or fresh), or with Herbs de Provence (which contains lemon thyme, which goes with chicken fantastically). You can roast a chicken breast or whole bird with lemon and garlic in the cavity or rubbed on the flesh or skin. A little salt livens the tast of chicken as well. I'm only a lay person, but I cook chicken breasts often enough to know that it's best if poaching them, to cook them gently (i.e. a lower heat) in a smaller amount of water for a longer time, than boil for a shorter amount of time. The fibers aren't so tough if you cook it gently, so the texture and the taste is better. See the top of this post for timings.

 

[SteveE]

Great advice everyone! Thanks! I'll be going through these ideas this weekend for sure!

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

2 apt observations.... _____________________________________"This may berelated to the fact that whatever mechanisms cause the hypersensitivity in the coloncan also have the same effect on other parts of the body." ____________________________________Ineed...the leukotrienes, cytokines, prostaglandins and other proinflammatory mediators which may be released from the variosu classes of immunocytes when provoked are not limited in their effects to those which are localized in the small bowel (where the primary reactions are observed)...rather since they are released into the systemic circulation as well (as the immune system has designed them to be in response to pathogens) they afect other bodily organ systems in specific untoward ways.In addition to the other symptoms mentioned, another common one is "urinary frequency", dysmenorrhea, and "CNS activation" in its grossest form manifesting itself as ADD/Hyperactivity in children....sensations of feverishness, hot flashes, sweatiness, claminess, dizziness, "Fog-brain" ad nauseum in adults.This is covered in detail in these bboks by experts on the subject:"FOOD ALLERGIES AND FOOD INTOLERANCE: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO THEIR IDENTIFICTION AND TREATMENT", Professor Jonathan Brostoff , M.D.. Allergy, Immunology and Environmental Medicine, Kings' College, London http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...6487508-3420903 FOOD ALLERGY AND INTOLERANCE, Professor Jonathan Brostoff, MD, Stephen Challacombe, MD (NEW 2002) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/070...product-details ________________________________"Mike--perhaps that explains why the "consequences and repercussions" are minimized when a "flare-up" is not in session." ________________________________Yep that is a good observation. The effects are additive and cumulative. If , for example, the bowel has been "antigen free" for a period of time and the patient ingests an offending food which results in a mild response, it may be subclinical....not enough for the patient o perceive any symptoms.If, on the other hand, the person has recently consumed something to which they are moderately to severely reactive and are experiencing some symptoms then ingests that substance to which they are mildly reactive, even though by itself and at that dose the reaction might be so modest as to be subclinical, the additive effect of the second reaction...it may even be potentiative...will result in noticeably worse symptoms under these circumstances.I can cite personal experience as an example. Previously, when I consumed Italian food almost daily for umpteen years, I lost tolerance to wheat, tomato, basil, oregani, garlic, onion etc.After a period of 2 years of total avoidance of those (and other) reactive foods, I regained tolerance to modest amounts of wheat.After an added year or two of no ingestion of tomato sauce with oregano, basil, garlic onion etc.(good old spaghetti sauce) I regained tolerance to modest combined doses.In other words I can now go to Sbarro once a week (their sauce is very mild) and consume a big bowl of speghetti and meatballs with 2 garlic breadtsicks! And remain asymptomatic! Or consume 2 slices of pizza...not a twinge.To me this is better thn waking up one day and finding MrsNL has miraculouly become 24 years old again!

Well, almost....

MNL

 

[kamie]

Mike's Post:Stop the mediator release and restore the gut wall to its normative state and a lot of APPARENT sensitivity or intolerence disappears. Isolate what provokes the release of mediators in that specific person and avoid them and indeed normal bowel function can be achieved and you can find then what the person actually does tolerate physiologically from their normative state____________________________________________Yes, I think that statement holds the most important key. When one identifys the foods that react with our bodies like good medicine, then we are on the road to natural healing.To me, food is such an important key to the whole IBS issue.Actually a huge key in my personal life.There are a lot of ideas and recipes but what I see is the bottom of the whole food foundation regarding what triggers and what does not.Additionally, there is also the consiceration of the insides of ones gut. And as we get better of worse from our malady, then the insides of the gut begin to change too so then you find yourself juggling new things.So it's an on going project until a balance of regularity becomes apparent.For me, here's my list of the good stuff that keeps my condition progressively better and my bad days much much less than worse.1- Olive Oil the very dark green kind.2- Tumeric3- Basil4- Low salt (salt, even though a generally good source is basically too drying and to go light with salt will be prudent for other body systems too.)5-sugar? in small and little incriments. Try to use the raw kind but again stressing the doseage as being very small.6- pure, pliain non fat yogurt. I even cook with it. lends well to middle eastern types of foods.7-Vanilla. REAL Vanilla. a small amount. lends to a lot of recepies. Also, it is an aromatic and it has a strong influence for the positive on the limbic area of the brain.You can do some personal research in that area and you might find some exciting answers.For me, those are my staples.Any time my tummy feels funny, I pull from these flavorings and the world workd out pretty okay.I've had my problem now for 7 months.Theres a whole lot of stuff I can now eat as opposed to June when there was nothing I could eat.So it takes time and perception and prudence.But food really can be your healing buddy.Kamie

 

[Blair]

"Mike--perhaps that explains why the "consequences and repercussions" are minimized when a "flare-up" is not in session."you got that right. so is it food sensitivity(MNL) or is it a nervous complaint (Eric) or both and more. I get ear pain and lots of gas when IBS attack is under way, attacks can last 2 weeks. That sounds like allergy to me. But to what? is it the food which shouldn't really get pass the intestine wall or is it a fermentation byproduct of poorly digested food? Now lets assume Eric is right and I have a highly sensitive set of nerves in the Colon. poorly digested food can be starches, most people can't digest fiber well and that helps with constipation, etc. well all that fermentation causes gas which causes distention of the bowel which sets of the nervous system. etc. Not an allergynow lets assume MNL is right, well my small intestine reacts to some food, gets inflamed, can't digest correctly, gets leaky and big molecules get to liver which doesn't like it, sends way too much undigested food to Colon, bacteria go wild and multiply, get gas, get pain, colon and ears, get panic attacks, etc. Or better yet, lets say I have bacteria overgrowth, that is small intestine has bacteria in it. bacteria ferment and byproducts go right to liver, liver doesn't like this either, all of above bad things happen. but you were asking about spices? well i use garlic and have used tumeric. also salsa with serano peppers, tomatos, tomatios( green tomatos)And the very first thing I copied applies to spices. maybe its a parasite

 

[SteveE]

Blair--you have a great way of simplifying all of the points of view. Of course that only makes it harder to decide which to believe because it makes them all sound equally plausible!

When I was a grad student in psychology, we decided that the answer to everything was "both."Nature vs. Nuture? Both.Left Brain/Right Brain functioning independently vs. Integrated Brain? Both.Cognitive vs. Physiological? Both.I sure don't want flashbacks to grad school, though, so I'll just dive into those chicken recipes and move on.

 

[Blair]

You're right Steve, thats why I studied Engineering. Fuzzy science is a pain. however in this case both is probably correct because IBS is a fuzzy diagnosis with no known case and many ineffective treatments. I think thats why the syndrome part in the name. we could all have different problems. in my case my ears will hurt when a bad bout of IBS is coming up. feel plugged up. Also I can get panic attacks and can't think straight. Tingling in the hands, all kinds of weird things. systemic. Personally if I had to guess, I beleive its a digestion problem and consequence bacteria fermentation byproduce posioning. posioning is what it feels like somtimes. I avoid starches. less bacteria presumably. or less of a certain kind of bacteria.

 

[Auroraheart]

darn I wish that edit key worked!!! that should be cannot "have"

 

[Auroraheart]

I cannot of hickory or chickory in ANY form. Also anything that smells like black liquorice. Those tastes; along with smells will put me out for days.