Eric, I have an urgent suggestion for you regarding these questions you raised on the other thread (Talissa's):
And-quote:Eric wrote:So tell me what are the little critters (abnormal gut flora) doing if not causing inflammation or infection or Alarm symptoms, because pain and discomfort is a must for the diagnoses of IBS. And alarm symptoms would suggest something other then IBS.Nor is it likely that gut flora is passing the brain barrier, so it woould have to be a messeger (neurotransmitters) of some sort that can access and have access to the brain. Most infections or patogens cause d, as the body trys to dispel them.
Now, it seems obvious that you are suggesting that because of the clearly demonstrated abnormalities in the brain-gut axis of IBS patients as reported by the IBS experts/researchers, you believe that dysbiosis itself cannot possibly be the "cause" of IBS. This is because these abnormalities occur in such places as the brain, and in the nerve systems controlling the gut, while dysbiosis is inside the colon itself, in the flora, and so you feel that can't possibly be causing those other abnormalites because they are in different places. And furthermore, you are suggesting that if dysbiosis (from antibiotics, for instance) were the cause of IBS, why doesn't everyone with dysbiosis have IBS? (Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting anything you are saying).Now I'd like to reference this recent study which you posted earlier: Intestinal microecology and quality of life in irritable bowel syndrome patients And from that study, this particular quote from the "Discussion" section of the study:quote:Eric wrote: Considering how many people have taken them (antibiotics) in the general population, how come everyone does not have IBS with altered gut flora?
Now clearly, these IBS experts are suggesting that dysbacteriosis MAY possibly be the cause of IBS. And obviously, on the other side of the coin, they are also suggesting that dysbacteriosis MAY NOT be the cause of IBS. As they say, more studies are needed to resolve this. But at this point in time, they are clearly stating that there is not enough evidence to either "rule out", or to "rule in" dysbacteriosis as the cause of IBS.Now what I'd like to explore with you, my friend Eric, is the fact that these people believe that dysbacteriosis MAY be the cause of IBS. We have to keep in mind of course, that these are IBS experts who conducted this medical study which you originally posted, so I'm sure you must hold them in high esteem and trust them and believe in their conclusions. And of course, as modern IBS experts, they must be fully aware of the other medical studies you have posted here showing that there are abnormalities in the brain-gut axis of IBS patients. And also, as IBS experts, they must be fully aware that, as you pointed out, there are people who do have dysbacteriosis, yet don't have IBS. Nevertheless, despite this knowledge, these IBS experts have NOT ruled out the possibility that dysbacteriosis could be the cause of of IBS. So they must believe that there are possible explanations for those aspects you have brought up.However, amazingly, it's clear from your quotes at the beginning of this message that somehow you yourself HAVE ruled out dysbacteriosis as the cause of IBS, so you do NOT agree with these IBS experts in this conclusion of theirs! What is it that you know that they do not, my friend? Just as you feel you must aggressively "correct" anyone here who happens to suggest that dysbiosis may be the cause of IBS, by posing such questions as those at the start of this message, you certainly must also feel an urgent need to correct the "misinformation" being propogated by these IBS experts in their study when they suggest the very same thing, musn't you? Following is my urgent suggestion to you. You stated this in the other thread:quote: "Further studies are still needed. However, there was dysbacteriosis (dysbiosis) in IBS patients. Whether it is the effect or just cause of IBS remains unclear"
I don't know if that happens to include the IBS experts who conducted this study, but regardless, I'm sure you must feel you need to contact them ASAP about their wayward conclusions. Please do share your superior knowledge with them, and correct them in their misguided ways! Since you are already very good friends with many top IBS researchers, I'm sure you'll have no trouble commanding the attention of these experts, even if you are not already personally acquainted with them. I'm sure they will amend their study and give you many thanks and full credit for setting them straight!Here is their contact information, from the top of the study:Correspondence to: Professor Jian-Min Si, Department of Gastroenterology, Sir Run Run Shaw Affiliated Hospital of Zhejiang University, Hangzhou 310016, Zhejiang Province, China. Email: sijm###163.net And please Eric, post their reply here on this bulletin board ASAP, I'm sure it will prove to be most interesting!Sincerely,Captain Colon