[flux]

quote: However, there was dysbacteriosis (dysbiosis) in IBS patients.

How is dysbacteriosis defined? Since most of the flora can't even be identified let alone grown in culture easily, how can ever know what's normal and abnormal in the gut?What makes the sheer number of the bacteria a valid measure for dysbacteriosis? Even we allow for the numbers of bacteria and the numbers of these bacteria to count for dysbacteriosis, how do we know the difference they found is actually meaningful? While the means may be different, there could be patients whose bacterial counts overlap with the controls.

quote: Now clearly, these IBS experts

They are?

quote:1. IBS is psychosomatic...

Who says that?

 

[flux]

quote: However, there was dysbacteriosis (dysbiosis) in IBS patients.

How is dysbacteriosis defined? Since most of the flora can't even be identified let alone grown in culture easily, how can ever know what's normal and abnormal in the gut?What makes the sheer number of the bacteria a valid measure for dysbacteriosis? Even we allow for the numbers of bacteria and the numbers of these bacteria to count for dysbacteriosis, how do we know the difference they found is actually meaningful? While the means may be different, there could be patients whose bacterial counts overlap with the controls.

quote: Now clearly, these IBS experts

They are?

quote:1. IBS is psychosomatic...

Who says that?

 

[flux]

quote:Why would you even raise this point? So what if there are some patients who might match the controls with respect to various bacteria.

This implies that having a difference in those bacteria is not clinically significant.

quote:If this were true, why use antibiotics or antifungals?

Who is trying to use antibiotics to treat dysbacteriosis?

quote: How could doctors use anything but broad spectrum if its all just guess-work?

You tell us.

quote:If that were true, how could they find the following in IBS patients? ~~

How do these findings have anything to do with the other 400 species of bacteria present? Are they less important if we can't count them?

quote: believe that means that the overall numbers of bacteria in the flora were about the same, but the numbers of some of the various specific strains of bacteria were different (different proportions).

But those are mean values. There could be patients would overlap. Wouldn't that negate the findings of difference?

 

[flux]

quote:Why would you even raise this point? So what if there are some patients who might match the controls with respect to various bacteria.

This implies that having a difference in those bacteria is not clinically significant.

quote:If this were true, why use antibiotics or antifungals?

Who is trying to use antibiotics to treat dysbacteriosis?

quote: How could doctors use anything but broad spectrum if its all just guess-work?

You tell us.

quote:If that were true, how could they find the following in IBS patients? ~~

How do these findings have anything to do with the other 400 species of bacteria present? Are they less important if we can't count them?

quote: believe that means that the overall numbers of bacteria in the flora were about the same, but the numbers of some of the various specific strains of bacteria were different (different proportions).

But those are mean values. There could be patients would overlap. Wouldn't that negate the findings of difference?