[Flowby Jonas]

So I have posted a few times on this forum and I get the feeling I am being dismissed. I take exception to that and I am so much better it's not funny. I would go as far as to say I am 90-95% better. I still get the occasional upset but it has been minor. I went to see an acupuncturist named LiHua Wang. Dr Wang took me from a problem case that my GI Dr though was going to be helpless and almost a waste of time to a living functioning person again. I won a small business and I am the go to person for almost everything. This puts a large amount of pressure on me to be well. I went to Dr Wang for about 6 months and during that time she started me out on a fruit smoothie that was cooked. The key is to use the Chinese criteria to eat. This means no cold or uncooked foods. ALL FOOD NEEDS TO BE COOKED, EVEN FRUIT. She also started me on herbs that build the immune system. The reason is that in Chinese medicine I was out of balance. So by increasing my immune system she gave me the strength to battle the SIBO. One day I must have eaten something bad because after 75-80 days I had an attack. So she then gave me a bitter herb that pretty much cleaned out the bacteria in my small intestines. Yes there are herbs that will do this. The herb is "Coptidus Rysoma". This Herb is highly prized by many ancient cultures for its curative properties. So once this was done I felt really very good for some time, maybe 4 weeks before I had a minor setback. Part of this was because of my testing. I am constantly testing myself to see if I can actually eat things that caused me trouble before. Sometime I would lose. So about 2 months ago we put me on those bitter herbs for 12 days. At this point I was doing well but have some weird things going on with my gut. Well first of all I believe that the roots eliminated the bacteria in my small intestines. This I also think that the more often you hit them the harder it is for them to re-root. So about 2 weeks ago I started with Align to re-colonize my small intestines again. Since then I have felt great better than I have in 4 years or when ever the SIBO went off on me. I suffered from IBS for years with every doctor I went to telling me its not a big deal, live with it.I want to leave Dr Wang's phone number because she is usually available and will speak with you directly. She doesn't make you wait for long. 503-255-5511, website, http://www.chinesehomeremedy.com/ I will also include the letter I wrote for Dr Wang I am writing this letter to inform anyone who is suffering from the same condition I do. I have been unfortunately blessed with a small intestinal bacterial over growth to which I will refer to as SIBO from here out. SIBO is a condition and not considered a disease. I subscribe to an Internet group online and read about how these folks suffer from IBS to Crone's, to ulcerative colitis. Apparently SIBO can be spawned by IBS and according to the forum I visit it is closely related. The pain and suffering is not pretty. Usually when one has a SIBO it can be very hard to have any kind of life. Most of the time food is your enemy. For me it was having to give up many things I enjoyed such as a cup of coffee, (I used to drink 3-4 cups a day) raisin bran for breakfast, a fresh green salad, milk shakes, any veggie raw, and my favorite foods, Chinese and Thai. Yes, I used to eat lots of spicy food and some of my friends told me that is why this happened to me, but I know that hot peppers, garlic, and onions are quite healthy for you. Over the past 30 or so years I have seen it progress little by little. I also had stomach flu according to the doctors but it happened about 5 times in my life. Each time I remember being completely drained of fluids and spent the entire 24 hours on or near the toilet being sick about every 10-15 minutes. I don't know if this contributed to my situation but I think it did. So soon about every 3-4 months I would be a bit sick to my stomach to which I passed off as the food was not the best or a tad of salmonella. I went on for years thinking that was the case. About 10 years ago I noticed it happened about once every 2 months even once a month. What was happening is I would get a feeling I had to use the restroom and needed immediate relief. When I was on the road or in a place where I might be working it would strike. So about 4 years ago I went to Dr Wang. I had met Dr Wang briefly during a visit for hip pain I developed playing Taiji Quan. I had all along asked doctors when I went for other issues what was happening and every one said, "oh it's IBS and there is nothing we can do." It is always disheartening when a doctor tells you there are not much they can do for you. Anyway Dr Wang treated me for IBS and for a bit I was doing all right, but still now and then I would get the pain and the horrible feeling like your stomach wants to jump out of your body. It took about 3 years to manifest into this SIBO. When I get sick I call it an attack because it seems like your entire digestive system has crashed. It will last from 1hr to 2 - 3 days when I get an attack.It was 3 years ago I got a colonoscopy and I was confirmed I had IBS. The doctors had to do it twice because the first time I could not handle the pain from the procedure. The second time I was completely sedated and they removed several polyps and a few were precancerous. I went back to OHSU and saw a FNP and she had me tested for hydrogen and to see how much hydrogen I produced. It turned out I produced a lot of hydrogen and I was diagnosed positive for SIBO. She prescribed me Cipro for 10 days and this worked for a week and she had me on flaygl for a week and that did nothing. She put me back on Cipro for 10 more days and it only lasted 4-5 days and I experienced another attack. I called back for another appointment and I was never responded to ever again by that clinic. I was out of hope and I was scared that I would never be well for more than a week or two at a time. So went back to Dr Wang again and told her that I had a SIBO. This time she had a different treatment for me. I asked if she knew about this and she nodded as she often does without saying a word. Her calm reassuring voice reassured me she could do something to help me. I asked her if I was ever going to get better after the second or third visit and she said, "Chris, you will get better." I wasn't so sure yet, but I had now gone 3 weeks without an attack. This was amazing. So the weeks stretched out into months and I had gone about 75 days with no problems and I induced an attack inadvertently by eating something out of my fridge that I let get bad and didn't notice.Dr. Wang had me come in right away and she gave me a cleaning herb that just made me feel great in no time. I wasn't too sure about all the acupuncture either. After 4 months of treatment I can now feel the accumulated effect of the needles working for me and I have turned a major corner in my life.Dr. Wang has done for me what a trained gastroenteroligist could not do. In January this year 2 weeks after starting with Dr Wang I had an appointment with my doctor, a board certified gastroenteroligist even told me that there is no cure and all he could do was to give another different type of antibiotic and I said no. I have been with Dr. Wang since then and other than 3 episodes or attacks I have been well. I know I have a ways to go but I can now see this will soon pass and I can go about living normal again.As for Dr. Wang I am not saying she is going to fix everything but she knows many things that western doctor have no clue about. She is caring and does not treat you in same manner as a modern doctor does. She treats you, not the symptom and, this is the difference between an eastern and western doctor. She doesn't make you wait, you can call and speak with her the same day. She goes out of her way to help. I was very lucky to find her and I hope that if you suffer from any problem a doctor tells you he can't cure you should see Dr. Wang. Yes she has limitations, everyone does. I am not going to say she is going to cure stage 4 cancer or fix broken spinal cords but, if you suffer from a condition and many diseases, Dr. Wang can help you!--C. J.I will also add thisLihua Wang acquired formal medical education in both traditional Chinese medicine and western medicine, at Beijing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine in the People's Republic of China.Later on she began her career as a cardiologist in Xi Yuanhospital affiliated with the China Academy of Traditional Medicine, where she practiced integrative medicine, combining both Western and Traditional Chinese medicine. In 1982 she was invited by Kaiser Permanente Research Center as a visiting scholar. After returning to China and practicing for awhile, shewas invited by the Oregon College of Oriental Medicine to teach acupuncture and Chinese herbology to American students for four years before starting her private practice in Traditional Chinese Medicine in 1992 in Portland, OR. Throughout the years, as she was treating patients, many asked for her advice on how they should take care themselves in daily life. In 2006, Lihua Wang have written a book: Chinese Home Remedies. It sprang from this experience and it is the author's hope that the suggestions it contains will help the readers as her past patients. The book has already been translated into twelve foreign languages.

 

[On Edge]

Something similar worked for me some 20 years ago when I had my first massive ulcerative colitis flare - loads of Chinese herbal treatments put me into remission.

 

[Flowby Jonas]

So Edge, I take it you are still in remission? I get the idea that because I am not using modern means to deal with SIBO I am wrong? Why wont other try it? If it worked for me, why not others? Sure we are all different but I am willing to bet that at least 50% of the folks that try this method will find much releif and some restoration. I have diagnosed with both IBS and SIBO. I used to think when I had a stomach issue it was a bit food poisoning or something along that line. What was weird was that people that I went ouiot to eat with or ate the same food I did had no problem. That is when I realized it was a problem. Why did I get sick and the 9 others that ate the same thing had no problems, too strange. That is why I sought out help, losing 30lbs in a month, and never being able to leave the restroom for more than a half an hour before I was sick again. I hope you no longer sufferany of your symptomns.Chris

 

[BQ]

I get the idea that because I am not using modern means to deal with SIBO I am wrong? Why wont other try it? If it worked for me, why not others? Sure we are all different but I am willing to bet that at least 50% of the folks that try this method will find much releif and some restoration.

Think you may have the wrong idea....Maybe others have tried it and are better and no longer post here.Also.. MAYbe not everyone has access to such a good Chinese practioner. Also.. MAYbe some folks just do not prefer alternative medicine. OR MAYbe they do not have the $$ for it as most of it is not covered by insurance here in the US. Etc. Try not to take a lack of response to your thread personally. I am very happy it worked for you! And thanks for posting the info for others to learn about it... even IF no one is posting back to you.All the best

 

[Flowby Jonas]

BQ,I have tried lots of the same stuff that the folks that post here. From antobiotics to probiotics. 2 colonoscopies in one month, to incredible amounts of pain and to point of blacking out on the poddy. Like I posted once before It didnt work for me and it hasnt worked for them. I am not suggesting everyone jump on my band wagon. I feel a bit of resposibiliy to share my findings, so other may have the chance to try. Maybe only people in my area, maybe only those that have the cash. Maybe its 10 people in total, but that will be ten people that get help. From everything I have read and experienced is that everyone is different and if you don't try you dont find out. I am most fortunate to have been this lucky and I feel blessed to be this much better. Dr Wang is very accessable unlike Dr Pimentel and I am sure would explain to any acupuncturist how to preform the method to use if the person is not able to come to Portland for treatment. I am not bragging, I am not showing off, only trying to help. For all I know the only way we can treat this condition is Dr Wang's way! Its not the resposes so much but the lack of intrest when some one has found a way to deal with this condition. How many of us ever get over it? How many of us get cured? Not many from what I see on this forum! As for "alternaive medicine" I am aware that most doctors practice medicine like its the dark ages and as I watched my mother die from pancreatic cancer I questioned everything. I saw a vibrant 82 year old woman that would walk 4 miles a day non the local track, who ate properly all her life whither away to nothing. That is part of the reason I am not enamored by the medical industrial complex. I have little faith in doctors! Thanks for trying to be nice.Chris

 

[BQ]

We appreciate that you are sharing what has worked for you. And again.. just because you see a lack of response... doesn't mean there is a lack of interest. All the best

 

[powertool4]

I am very interested and have sent you a private message. Please read it! Thanks for the post.

 

[Common Response]

Hi C J.Thanks for your experiences.It's fantastic that you've turned the corner.Reading your story gives me great encouragement in my personal battle with IBS & FBO.Before seeking the natural treatment had you been tested & diagnosed for SIBO?Did they conclude which type of SIBO (candida?) was causing the problem?I need to explore SIBO & eliminate it as a variable.I've had gas tests & was found to produce hydrogen from lactose although l was ok with fructose.I don't know what other tests can be carried out to further confirm SIBO & whether some forms of infestation can go undetected by such tests.I'd also like to explore the herb "Coptidus Rysoma" & acupuncture if this assists if I'm found to have SIBO.Living in Australia I'll need to find a local practitioner.How is your situation progressing.Have you find probiotics useful in keeping you healthy?R

 

[Waray]

Congratulations! I went to an acupuncturist a couple of weeks ago out of desperation. I wasn't convinced that it would help. You've given me encouragement. I Googled "Coptidus Rysoma" and only came up with this article. Does it have another name?

 

[Common Response]

Try this link.http://www.orientalpharmacy.com/hulisutak.htmlhttp://www.shopsuigetsu.com/Huang_Lian_Su_...20lian%20su.htmThe Chinese name for Coptis Rizoma is Huang Lian.It seems to have a number of ways to spell it.Coptis RizomaCoptidis RhizomaI'm quietly excited about this stuff.I have had positive changes to stool formation in only three days.I know there's a long way to go but l'll continue the tablets for one month.

 

[powertool4]

Try this link.http://www.orientalpharmacy.com/hulisutak.htmlhttp://www.shopsuigetsu.com/Huang_Lian_Su_...20lian%20su.htmThe Chinese name for Coptis Rizoma is Huang Lian.It seems to have a number of ways to spell it.Coptis RizomaCoptidis RhizomaI'm quietly excited about this stuff.I have had positive changes to stool formation in only three days.I know there's a long way to go but l'll continue the tablets for one month.

How is the herb coming along for your SIBO? Are you taking only the huang lian or are you taking a concoction of it with other herbs for antibacterial properties? Thanks.

 

[Moises]

For the record,I started Huang Lian today.I am not very optimistic, since I tried Western forms of berberine many years ago with no effect.I tried acupuncture many years ago, again with no effect.I've also tried Cipro and Flagyl and they did not help me.As others have said, we are all very happy to hear from people who have been helped by this or that treatment. But, invariably, it doesn't work for everyone.I have had incremental benefits from low-carb eating and from the Align probiotic. I have tried many tens of other probiotics and none of the others had any benefit at all for me.Thanks, Common Response, for the information on Huang Lian. I never heard of it before, so I have decided it's worth a try. I am pleased to hear that you have gotten enormous benefit from it.

 

[Common Response]

How is the herb coming along for your SIBO? Are you taking only the huang lian or are you taking a concoction of it with other herbs for antibacterial properties? Thanks.

Huang Lian & vitamins is the only thing I'm taking.Twelve weeks ago I was in a pretty bad state.My IBS symptoms were out of control even though I exercised, ate sensibly, plenty of water, vitamins, avoided alcohol, tea & coffee, & regularly practiced relaxation.Symptoms were, lethargy, incomplete evacuation, high FBO, diarrhea with poor stool formation.I was getting all kinds of negative reactions from work colleagues & my self esteem was in pieces.Psychologically something was going to give.To the above baseline I started Huang Lian six weeks ago.Since then my stool formation is close to great, complete evacuation, none or little soiling on toilet paper.My confidence has turned around & I'm starting to go out & enjoy life.Over this period I've had the odd day when things weren't that good, but never to the extent it used to be.I put these days down to exposure to external bacteria from take away food, or perhaps eating something which has overwhelmed my gut.Huang Lian hasn't cured me but has stimulated my digestive tract to the point where my symptoms are down 90%.I'm on my second packet (Huang Lian) as it lasts about 5 weeks.I've shown it to my doctor & dietitian. Apart from the fact that it might contain impurities which might be harmful they were happy that my quality of life has been restored.I'm already planning an overseas trip (air travel) & enjoying my life (something I haven't done for a long time).My gym workouts are going to an extra level. I find I can more easily last longer on the treadmill & am lifting heavier weights.All this with no other variable other than the Huang Lian.Cheating on my diet (no dairy or wheat products, & no junk food, alcohol & coffee/tea) will affect me, but this was my baseline.I accept my digestive system is not as robust as those without IBS.I recognise I must continue to eat well but value my new found confidence over any culinary experience.As my gut is more robust I'm going to introduce lactose fee yoghurt, for dairy & probiotics.I've avoided probiotics to date & hope the yoghurt will add an extra dimension.Will keep reporting.

 

[Common Response]

For the record,I started Huang Lian today.I am not very optimistic, since I tried Western forms of berberine many years ago with no effect.I tried acupuncture many years ago, again with no effect.I've also tried Cipro and Flagyl and they did not help me.As others have said, we are all very happy to hear from people who have been helped by this or that treatment. But, invariably, it doesn't work for everyone.I have had incremental benefits from low-carb eating and from the Align probiotic. I have tried many tens of other probiotics and none of the others had any benefit at all for me.Thanks, Common Response, for the information on Huang Lian. I never heard of it before, so I have decided it's worth a try. I am pleased to hear that you have gotten enormous benefit from it.

Hi Moises.I sincerely hope things work out for you.I highly recommend that you eliminate variables when trying new things.Apart from sensible diet & lifestyle my only other input was general vitamins when starting Huang Lian.I haven't gone down the probiotic path but have read that for some these can have a negative affect or a temporary affect.I showed my doctor the list of active ingredients (huang lian) & interestingly one of the compounds was a liver stimulant.This gives me further future leads.Perhaps I have a sluggish liver & stimulating it has made the difference.I don't know.All I know is that after evacuating in the morning I take a look & rejoice in seeing normally formed stools with low odor.Also a feeling of complete elimination with no soiling on the paper.Very liberating.

 

[Moises]

Unfortunately, after 10 days, I had to stop the Huang Lian. It was making me feel worse. If I give it another try, I will start with only 1 pill/day. Then, after a week, I'll add a pill at another meal. I'll keep building until I either get bad symptoms, or reach 2 pills, 3 times a day.I know it's possible that my symptoms were a "die-off" reaction. But I am going on vacation in a few days, and I didn't want to feel lousy the whole time.

 

[Hester]

Well, good luck. I am off the Zyprexa and things did "speed" up a tad, not diarrhea though. I continue to take from 0 to 1000 mg a day of the Tetracycline with no ill effects that I can detect. However, I have not had a liver or kidney function panel in a few months. I avoid drinking any "colored" alcohol. Now and then, I will have a bloody mary and that does not seem to bother me. I do not eat any dairy and avoid eating junk food. The "juicing" did make my stools looser but I added ground flaxseed to the mixture and that has actually created a very nicely formed clean bowel movement. I visit a new GI specialist in two weeks for a second opinion on taking the AB for the rest of my life or what could have been the exact cause of SIBO. Was it the damage to my gut wall from the drug reaction? Was it my diet and stress? Do I have a blind loop? Did I get a bug that just would not leave? My best guess is the drug reaction that took out my mucus membrane allowed the bad bacteria to spread up into my small bowel. When the lining grew back, it grew over the bacteria causing a very leaky gut. As I ate carbs, the bacteria grew while I got only a enough "food" to barely keep going until one day. . . POOF. And, I had the fever, weakness, brain fog and severe untreatable diarrhea. I think it is a balancing act to kill just what got into the small bowel without ruining the flora in the colon. Also, that JAMA article stated with severe SIBO, the overgrowth spreads into the body. My Naturopath found that 90 percent of my live blood was loaded with bacteria. On the Tetracyline, this too is gone. The difference is that Tetracyline is bacteriostatic rather than a bacteriacide. It simply and slowly is allowing my body to return to normal. Some of the antibiotics such as Avelox are bactericides. This particular AB kills anerobes too which can be good bacteria in the colon. Xifaxin cannot penetrate the lining of the GI tract to destroy what has spread into subendothelial spaces and the blood. I know my first two rounds of Tetracycline even at 14 days did not do it. I think a great deal of tissue penetration is required at the gut level. The symptoms came back every time. Now we are going for the six month mark and see if that does the trick. I feel pretty good and am able to work full time again, drive for hours, have a morning bowl movement with maybe one or two others during the day that are NOT urgent. I would call this success if only I had more confidence the SIBO was finally beat! (I have avoided all probotics during this time as well as herbals, cleanses, etc.) Just an ordinary diet, the juicing/smoothies with flaxseed and my AB.

 

[Common Response]

Unfortunately, after 10 days, I had to stop the Huang Lian. It was making me feel worse. If I give it another try, I will start with only 1 pill/day. Then, after a week, I'll add a pill at another meal. I'll keep building until I either get bad symptoms, or reach 2 pills, 3 times a day.I know it's possible that my symptoms were a "die-off" reaction. But I am going on vacation in a few days, and I didn't want to feel lousy the whole time.

Sorry to hear your symptoms worsened.I started 2 tablets three times a day & noticed positive effects within two days.I guess, although many of us have similar symptoms & find ourselves under the IBS banner, the causes must be quite varied for each of us.Thankfully for me the Huang Lian continues to have a positive effect.Even with Huang Lian, eating the wrong foods is still bad for me although a tiny fraction of the effects I used to suffer.But without Huang Lian, I was in an extreme state no matter what I ate.

 

[Joseph81]

Flowby Jonas and Common Response, Thank you guys, this did the trick!I take 1 pill 3x a day on an empty stomach, and I'm about 90- 95% better. My stomach now feels calm for the most part.One thing I didn't expect is my brain fog is gone! I didn't even realize that I had it until it was gone. I don't feel so sleepy or "slow" anymore. It's only been a week, so it's too early to tell, but I'm hoping this is a lasting solution. But I finally have some hope in my life.I still have problems with certain things (green tea, coffee), so I avoid those. Other than that, I feel much better!Oh, and Amazon carries Huang Lian Su FWIW.