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Hey Down Under:"THANKS M.NOLOM YOU SHOULD WRITE A BOOK"No, but we all need tor ead the ones I read...they are very helpful, I don't know a damn thing about food intolerance compared to those who study it and write about it themselves, some of whom I work with daily....But here IS a book that's written for you, and a new book for doctors by the same author is in editing now:"FOOD ALLERGIES AND FOOD INTOLERANCE: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO THEIR IDENTIFICTION AND TREATMENT", Professor Jonathan Brostoff (M.D.. Allergy, Immunology and Environmental Medicine, Kings' College, London)http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...r=2-1/102-64875 08-3420903[/URL]This next one is also a good book to be able to have a reference on basic immunology so one can understand a little of what the docs who do it are talking about...its a baffling subject even to experts. I learned that if an expert does not admit he/she is still baffled by many aspectc of the immune system it he/she is no expert LOLThe Immune System by Peter Parhamhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/081...76326/sr=2-3/re f=sc_b_3/107-4326764-6290107[/URL]Plus I just have read and filed so many papers on the subject of the effects of food allergy and intolerance that I have shelves filled with multiple three ring binders stuffed with just the ABSTRACTS.So I don't know that much I just know where people are and what they write who do konow some things, and just parrot what they say. So much of the information just does not filter down to many practitioners working with people whose various symptoms can be linked to this problems...not just certin IBS types.Your history is very consistent of course with known precursor events for a person with your symptoms. I recommend Brostoffs book strongly for you, and that in adition you evaluate adjunct programs such as Dr. Weinstock/Lipsitz IBS sress managment program on cd www.ibstherapy.com, or Mike Mahoneys HT program (see Erics website) as this is also essential to helping get your symptoms under control. You need to learn bith how to assess and alter diet to address your symptoms and how to alter your perspective and the inevitable anxieties and fears that go with this.You put the twio together successfully and you can acheive substantial symptom reduction. This is particulrly teu if you are being cared for by a Board Certified GI doc who has exhausted all her options with you. If you have not had all this assessed by a GI specialist in addition to your primary care doc, I recommend this strongly as well.We are absolutely not better than doctors (many of us work with some in one way or another), there is no subtitute for proper care, EXCEPT that we may have more time to listen, and have the empathy that comes from having experienced ourselves what you are living with. So we can help people find ways and means of coping.Eat well. Think well. be well.MNL
 

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Hey Down Under:"THANKS M.NOLOM YOU SHOULD WRITE A BOOK"No, but we all need tor ead the ones I read...they are very helpful, I don't know a damn thing about food intolerance compared to those who study it and write about it themselves, some of whom I work with daily....But here IS a book that's written for you, and a new book for doctors by the same author is in editing now:"FOOD ALLERGIES AND FOOD INTOLERANCE: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO THEIR IDENTIFICTION AND TREATMENT", Professor Jonathan Brostoff (M.D.. Allergy, Immunology and Environmental Medicine, Kings' College, London)http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...r=2-1/102-64875 08-3420903[/URL]This next one is also a good book to be able to have a reference on basic immunology so one can understand a little of what the docs who do it are talking about...its a baffling subject even to experts. I learned that if an expert does not admit he/she is still baffled by many aspectc of the immune system it he/she is no expert LOLThe Immune System by Peter Parhamhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/081...76326/sr=2-3/re f=sc_b_3/107-4326764-6290107[/URL]Plus I just have read and filed so many papers on the subject of the effects of food allergy and intolerance that I have shelves filled with multiple three ring binders stuffed with just the ABSTRACTS.So I don't know that much I just know where people are and what they write who do konow some things, and just parrot what they say. So much of the information just does not filter down to many practitioners working with people whose various symptoms can be linked to this problems...not just certin IBS types.Your history is very consistent of course with known precursor events for a person with your symptoms. I recommend Brostoffs book strongly for you, and that in adition you evaluate adjunct programs such as Dr. Weinstock/Lipsitz IBS sress managment program on cd www.ibstherapy.com, or Mike Mahoneys HT program (see Erics website) as this is also essential to helping get your symptoms under control. You need to learn bith how to assess and alter diet to address your symptoms and how to alter your perspective and the inevitable anxieties and fears that go with this.You put the twio together successfully and you can acheive substantial symptom reduction. This is particulrly teu if you are being cared for by a Board Certified GI doc who has exhausted all her options with you. If you have not had all this assessed by a GI specialist in addition to your primary care doc, I recommend this strongly as well.We are absolutely not better than doctors (many of us work with some in one way or another), there is no subtitute for proper care, EXCEPT that we may have more time to listen, and have the empathy that comes from having experienced ourselves what you are living with. So we can help people find ways and means of coping.Eat well. Think well. be well.MNL
 

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Hey Linesse: _________________________________"...you have a definite talent for written expression. " _________________________________It may be that there is tendency to be verbose and overbearing which some may find entertaining, others not, [sigh], if only, though, I was able to actually type it all out accurately. But if I cannot do it by 49, it's just not happening. I flunked typing in 7th grade and still flunk my remedials every single day. I am just glad people are observant enough to usually figure out what the word is supposed to be, not how it came out of my keyboard.Ever tryo to edit your own writing/typing? Talk about having a scotoma.
[SEE?] ______________________________OHNO U2? Thank Divinity I am not alone
To wit: ______________________________"What is helping me out now is work with Leap Allergy and taking a dietary supplement that seems to be increasing my symptoms alot." ______________________________Unless there has been a dramatic reversal of fortune in the last 24 hours I think she means "decreasing" her symptoms. ["Not sick enough? Try LEAP! Guaranteed to increase your symptoms!" Should go over well with the masochist subpopulation.
{{Donna}}
______________________________OHNO! You also!:"When I feel good it's like "I probably dont have to write that down today " but a few days passes and I think now why didnt I keep up with my Food Diary...." ______________________________Why does EVERYBODY on dietary therapy do that during the recovery phase?
You know now in retrospect why it is a must to keep the log accuratley during the recovery phase, at least until full remission seems to have been achieved...since the reactions are delayed up to 72 hours and you for sure will accidentally ingest something (depending upon your reaction profile) which you need to be able to isolate when a symptom does appear. As you know, the symptoms SUBSIDE, over time, not disappear like blinking out a light.You have to allow all the antigens to be flushed from the body, and the GI tract takes time to fully cleanse. All the while you still have exposure, less and less as time passes, so constant reactivity going on at a lower and lower level. Its also well established that the presence of proinflammatory mediators in the gut wall, regardless of why, if it is chronic (Like it is in your case)does leave the gut with some residual "neuropathy" (some call it persistent inflammtory reaction) even after the cuasal basis is removed. Some peopel recovery time from this is protratec, some it is short. During this time the gut can still be provoked mechanically even by normal nin reactive food, too big a meal, too much fat, or even stress-induced effects until the neuromusculature returns to a non-upregulated state.So during this time if you inadvertently toss-in a reactive food or chemical you will still get symptoms similar to, but less intense (unless it is a true allergy) than you were living with before. So you want to be able to isolate how this happend so you can avoid doing it again.ALSO even in that subpopulation whose symptoms actually DO just disappear almost overnight, it takes a long time of non-exposure beofre the immunocytes regain some tolerance. So one must also be trained in the new habit of being constantly aware of their offending foods and chemicals so as to not get either casual and sloppy, thus bringing back the symptoms, OR thinking like you profess to sometimes.Believe me, it is a very short leap from 'I don't need to log today I feel good' to 'I don't need to AVOID THAT ALL THE TIME anymore I feel good'.The food intolerant patient during withdrawl and 'recovery", while learning new lifestyle skills, is a lot like the alcoholic: the alcoholic is always one drink away from his next drunk. the food reactive victim, IBS or FMS or Migraine or urticaria...whatever the symptom set...for a long time is still onyl one mouthful away from theior next episode!Note to Aussie:Having comorbid symptoms to your GI troubles like headache, sinus problems, stuffiness or buzziness/ringiness in the ears, even clmminess to nausea to chills are all symptoms of the systemic effects of immune activation (circulating an/or tissue immunocytes). The chemicals released abnormally when one loses tolerance are called "proinflammatory" as they act on smooth muscles in organs and blood vessels, many different "types" of peripheral nerves, endocrine and exocrine glands and on the central nervous system including the brain.Those who study what happens can quantify various myriad generalized abnormal activation of the immune system locally in the gut and, when the "digestive end products" enter the vasculature, throughout the body. The more of certain sympotms a person can "compile" the greater the liklihood of the symptoms being traced to a specific oral provocation.That numbness on the other hand you better keep tolking to Norb about. I only had (1) good outcome with chiropractic...luckily it "saved" my spine and has had a long (8 years now) residual effect. But its not my bag so to speak.Also, as the Lover of Lotronex suggests, while ruling-out things which can cause these clear symptoms of immune activation, it is wise to be checked for celiac as well if the sympotms fit at all...and sometimes you do have what tyou might call an atypical celiac...the body does not always remember to "color inside the lines" we draw for it diagnostically.ITCHIBOD and MOLDING ONE both make good points about antibiotic treatment as a precursor. The digestive process and gut immune function (whih is where 70% of the bodies immune system is located anyway...hence the overwhelming imprtance) are closely related, and the flora and proper digestion are closely related. Ergo one of the many things that proper function of the immune system is dependent upon is the gut flora.If you screw it outside a certain tolerance range, which is not yet definable much less quantifiable but it is different for all of us, then some people (possibly predisposed) lose some or a lot of their ability to sort out safe ingestants from unsafe ingestants. Loss of oral tolerance. So they become food sensitivie or chemically sensitive and show clusters of various symptoms. Among them the "IBS" syjmptom sets of d or cyclic especially are prominent.So it does satnd tor eason if we can identifiy the problem and corect it we should be able tor estore some or all of a perosns tolerance. Since we know we cannattenuate if with immunomodulation, and have quantified the small bowel inflammatory response, this makes it pretty clear that, at least in that speicif population, the investigators doing that work are barking up the right tree so far.Gotta runEat well. Think well. be well. type well.MNL
 

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Hey Linesse: _________________________________"...you have a definite talent for written expression. " _________________________________It may be that there is tendency to be verbose and overbearing which some may find entertaining, others not, [sigh], if only, though, I was able to actually type it all out accurately. But if I cannot do it by 49, it's just not happening. I flunked typing in 7th grade and still flunk my remedials every single day. I am just glad people are observant enough to usually figure out what the word is supposed to be, not how it came out of my keyboard.Ever tryo to edit your own writing/typing? Talk about having a scotoma.
[SEE?] ______________________________OHNO U2? Thank Divinity I am not alone
To wit: ______________________________"What is helping me out now is work with Leap Allergy and taking a dietary supplement that seems to be increasing my symptoms alot." ______________________________Unless there has been a dramatic reversal of fortune in the last 24 hours I think she means "decreasing" her symptoms. ["Not sick enough? Try LEAP! Guaranteed to increase your symptoms!" Should go over well with the masochist subpopulation.
{{Donna}}
______________________________OHNO! You also!:"When I feel good it's like "I probably dont have to write that down today " but a few days passes and I think now why didnt I keep up with my Food Diary...." ______________________________Why does EVERYBODY on dietary therapy do that during the recovery phase?
You know now in retrospect why it is a must to keep the log accuratley during the recovery phase, at least until full remission seems to have been achieved...since the reactions are delayed up to 72 hours and you for sure will accidentally ingest something (depending upon your reaction profile) which you need to be able to isolate when a symptom does appear. As you know, the symptoms SUBSIDE, over time, not disappear like blinking out a light.You have to allow all the antigens to be flushed from the body, and the GI tract takes time to fully cleanse. All the while you still have exposure, less and less as time passes, so constant reactivity going on at a lower and lower level. Its also well established that the presence of proinflammatory mediators in the gut wall, regardless of why, if it is chronic (Like it is in your case)does leave the gut with some residual "neuropathy" (some call it persistent inflammtory reaction) even after the cuasal basis is removed. Some peopel recovery time from this is protratec, some it is short. During this time the gut can still be provoked mechanically even by normal nin reactive food, too big a meal, too much fat, or even stress-induced effects until the neuromusculature returns to a non-upregulated state.So during this time if you inadvertently toss-in a reactive food or chemical you will still get symptoms similar to, but less intense (unless it is a true allergy) than you were living with before. So you want to be able to isolate how this happend so you can avoid doing it again.ALSO even in that subpopulation whose symptoms actually DO just disappear almost overnight, it takes a long time of non-exposure beofre the immunocytes regain some tolerance. So one must also be trained in the new habit of being constantly aware of their offending foods and chemicals so as to not get either casual and sloppy, thus bringing back the symptoms, OR thinking like you profess to sometimes.Believe me, it is a very short leap from 'I don't need to log today I feel good' to 'I don't need to AVOID THAT ALL THE TIME anymore I feel good'.The food intolerant patient during withdrawl and 'recovery", while learning new lifestyle skills, is a lot like the alcoholic: the alcoholic is always one drink away from his next drunk. the food reactive victim, IBS or FMS or Migraine or urticaria...whatever the symptom set...for a long time is still onyl one mouthful away from theior next episode!Note to Aussie:Having comorbid symptoms to your GI troubles like headache, sinus problems, stuffiness or buzziness/ringiness in the ears, even clmminess to nausea to chills are all symptoms of the systemic effects of immune activation (circulating an/or tissue immunocytes). The chemicals released abnormally when one loses tolerance are called "proinflammatory" as they act on smooth muscles in organs and blood vessels, many different "types" of peripheral nerves, endocrine and exocrine glands and on the central nervous system including the brain.Those who study what happens can quantify various myriad generalized abnormal activation of the immune system locally in the gut and, when the "digestive end products" enter the vasculature, throughout the body. The more of certain sympotms a person can "compile" the greater the liklihood of the symptoms being traced to a specific oral provocation.That numbness on the other hand you better keep tolking to Norb about. I only had (1) good outcome with chiropractic...luckily it "saved" my spine and has had a long (8 years now) residual effect. But its not my bag so to speak.Also, as the Lover of Lotronex suggests, while ruling-out things which can cause these clear symptoms of immune activation, it is wise to be checked for celiac as well if the sympotms fit at all...and sometimes you do have what tyou might call an atypical celiac...the body does not always remember to "color inside the lines" we draw for it diagnostically.ITCHIBOD and MOLDING ONE both make good points about antibiotic treatment as a precursor. The digestive process and gut immune function (whih is where 70% of the bodies immune system is located anyway...hence the overwhelming imprtance) are closely related, and the flora and proper digestion are closely related. Ergo one of the many things that proper function of the immune system is dependent upon is the gut flora.If you screw it outside a certain tolerance range, which is not yet definable much less quantifiable but it is different for all of us, then some people (possibly predisposed) lose some or a lot of their ability to sort out safe ingestants from unsafe ingestants. Loss of oral tolerance. So they become food sensitivie or chemically sensitive and show clusters of various symptoms. Among them the "IBS" syjmptom sets of d or cyclic especially are prominent.So it does satnd tor eason if we can identifiy the problem and corect it we should be able tor estore some or all of a perosns tolerance. Since we know we cannattenuate if with immunomodulation, and have quantified the small bowel inflammatory response, this makes it pretty clear that, at least in that speicif population, the investigators doing that work are barking up the right tree so far.Gotta runEat well. Think well. be well. type well.MNL
 

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Aussie....comment:I LOVE
whenever someone posts this all the time as the preamble to their references: ________________________________________"Accurate IBS info and what the researchers know about it." _________________________________________Is this to suggest that any other information is innately "inaccurate?"
And one should read that second section vis a vis "THE researchers", which suggests there are no others except those which author his references, to "SOME researchers", as there are many others who posess additional findings and additional postulates which are not referenced."Accurate" is not synonymous with "complete", especially in the case of investigations and postulates about IBS or other "syndromes" and diseases which are in the phase of understanding where they are still being labelled "functional". This is just a catch word which means "we have not found the/or all of the causes yet". So it denotes conditions wherein medical sciences' understanding is clearly incomplete.Now do not permit my words to be manipulated to suggest some sinister motive other than EXACTLY what I say. This is NOT by any stretch of the imagination to dispute the findings of the investigators someone quotes or to derogate anybody anywhere. period.On the contrary I personally pay close attention to their work as well, as do the doctors I work with, as their work produces pieces of the puzzle.Their finidings certainly valid, and some of their theories are also potentially valid, and some may ultimately be proved correct under specific conditions, otheres not. Same for anyones theories or prognostications.On the other hand the work referenced in a VACUUM from the findings of some other investigators decades of privately-funded work, clinically and otherwise, who approach the IBS symptom sets from a different angle so they often find different and/or additional things the referenced groups do not find is thus incomplete. The words "the" and "accurate" and what this denotes are wholly inappropriate in this context.So I would suggest to you and all other readers, and any newcomers et al to whom it is intimated that there is a some single source of factual information, a single source of valid information, and sole valid and truthful source of research on the symptoms we associate with IBS, or that there is a single set of theories about etiology which are valid, that you are simply being misled.We must all collectively, patients, practitioners, and researchers, broaden the scope of our view. The history of the evolution of progress in medicine in coming to understand what "syndromes" actually are, and the underlying "diseases" which are finally isolated, proves that the wide angle view is not only desireable but requisite. One must go beyond the quid pro quos and speciality-driven predipositions that individual investigators or groups are driven by, and integrate ALL the myriad findings about a "syndrome" and the different patient populations which are sadi to suffer the "syndrome" to get to the underlying causal basis.This is an inescapable fact, and every time it is not acknowledged and not accepted, progress slows.Eat well. THINK Well. Be well.
MNL
 

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Aussie....comment:I LOVE
whenever someone posts this all the time as the preamble to their references: ________________________________________"Accurate IBS info and what the researchers know about it." _________________________________________Is this to suggest that any other information is innately "inaccurate?"
And one should read that second section vis a vis "THE researchers", which suggests there are no others except those which author his references, to "SOME researchers", as there are many others who posess additional findings and additional postulates which are not referenced."Accurate" is not synonymous with "complete", especially in the case of investigations and postulates about IBS or other "syndromes" and diseases which are in the phase of understanding where they are still being labelled "functional". This is just a catch word which means "we have not found the/or all of the causes yet". So it denotes conditions wherein medical sciences' understanding is clearly incomplete.Now do not permit my words to be manipulated to suggest some sinister motive other than EXACTLY what I say. This is NOT by any stretch of the imagination to dispute the findings of the investigators someone quotes or to derogate anybody anywhere. period.On the contrary I personally pay close attention to their work as well, as do the doctors I work with, as their work produces pieces of the puzzle.Their finidings certainly valid, and some of their theories are also potentially valid, and some may ultimately be proved correct under specific conditions, otheres not. Same for anyones theories or prognostications.On the other hand the work referenced in a VACUUM from the findings of some other investigators decades of privately-funded work, clinically and otherwise, who approach the IBS symptom sets from a different angle so they often find different and/or additional things the referenced groups do not find is thus incomplete. The words "the" and "accurate" and what this denotes are wholly inappropriate in this context.So I would suggest to you and all other readers, and any newcomers et al to whom it is intimated that there is a some single source of factual information, a single source of valid information, and sole valid and truthful source of research on the symptoms we associate with IBS, or that there is a single set of theories about etiology which are valid, that you are simply being misled.We must all collectively, patients, practitioners, and researchers, broaden the scope of our view. The history of the evolution of progress in medicine in coming to understand what "syndromes" actually are, and the underlying "diseases" which are finally isolated, proves that the wide angle view is not only desireable but requisite. One must go beyond the quid pro quos and speciality-driven predipositions that individual investigators or groups are driven by, and integrate ALL the myriad findings about a "syndrome" and the different patient populations which are sadi to suffer the "syndrome" to get to the underlying causal basis.This is an inescapable fact, and every time it is not acknowledged and not accepted, progress slows.Eat well. THINK Well. Be well.
MNL
 

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Hi Angry.Eric teaches: _________________________________"One thing is a fact the brain and the gut are both operative in IBS." _________________________________??? Of course they are, I never heard anyone dispute that. If they were not then we would of course have no gut function much less dysfunction.
BUT So is it a fact that the immune system, the endocrine system, the exocrine system, the circulatory system, the lymphatic system, and other integrated subsystems of the body are all "operative in IBS" as well. The wide range of sometimes disparate findings, patient subpopulations with different symptom sets, the vagaries of patient selection for study as well as clinically depending upon the source of the patient observations by practice specialty, and the UNIVERSALLY INCOMPLETE physiologic assays performed in all so-called IBS studies...NO ONE has ever assayed all neural, immunologic, endocrinologic markers at the same time in the same patients selected the same way in an effort to capture the whole picture of at least ONE of the various patient subpopulations. Nobody has ever done it even once.Instead we have findings of all manner of abnormalities within each system, and the physiologic markers appurtenant thereunto, within all manner of selection criteria for subjects.So to even get a glimmer of the phsyiology and etiology of each subpopulation we have to find everything that was done from each diffrent type of investigation on patients which appear to have been selected to at least have the same symptoms sets and try to integrate those findings collectively, and integrate them with what they mean from what science knows about each phenomenon uncovered. If we do not, and start making pronouncements in terms of the absolute, this is the "accurate" inforamation, this is "the researcher" or "the cause" etc., we are mistaken.Because of the quid pro quos associated with each source of funding one accepts to pay oneself to do studies, the design conforms to that outcome which will continue to disclose something about IBS but in a way that does not run contrary to the interests of that funding source. If not, the source will not renew the funding when the next application is submitted. Who cuts their own income or perquisites intentionally?So this is a big reason for the non-integration of the work...right now there is no commercial enterprise which would sand to benefit from this which has the funds to commit to this type of wide ranging, exhaustive, and expensive investigation. So, as the late Sara Peller once declared "It's parts. It's pieces. Pieces-parts."Hey, on the other hand, today who cares? The Dolphins gave us Club Seats
for the playoff game with the CROWS, uh sorry , RAVENS. So it is OFF TO MIAMI to claim my seat and my ****tail!!! [NOTE: THAT WORD edited by the program is a euphamism for an alcoholic beverage LOL. Guardians of Virtue ever vigilant!!!]Time to Barbecue some Birds from Baltimore!Ya'll have a fun day!Eat well. Think well. Be well. RUN, well, Like HELL!!!, Lamar. [INSIDE Lamar, INSIDE...]MNL
 

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Hi Angry.Eric teaches: _________________________________"One thing is a fact the brain and the gut are both operative in IBS." _________________________________??? Of course they are, I never heard anyone dispute that. If they were not then we would of course have no gut function much less dysfunction.
BUT So is it a fact that the immune system, the endocrine system, the exocrine system, the circulatory system, the lymphatic system, and other integrated subsystems of the body are all "operative in IBS" as well. The wide range of sometimes disparate findings, patient subpopulations with different symptom sets, the vagaries of patient selection for study as well as clinically depending upon the source of the patient observations by practice specialty, and the UNIVERSALLY INCOMPLETE physiologic assays performed in all so-called IBS studies...NO ONE has ever assayed all neural, immunologic, endocrinologic markers at the same time in the same patients selected the same way in an effort to capture the whole picture of at least ONE of the various patient subpopulations. Nobody has ever done it even once.Instead we have findings of all manner of abnormalities within each system, and the physiologic markers appurtenant thereunto, within all manner of selection criteria for subjects.So to even get a glimmer of the phsyiology and etiology of each subpopulation we have to find everything that was done from each diffrent type of investigation on patients which appear to have been selected to at least have the same symptoms sets and try to integrate those findings collectively, and integrate them with what they mean from what science knows about each phenomenon uncovered. If we do not, and start making pronouncements in terms of the absolute, this is the "accurate" inforamation, this is "the researcher" or "the cause" etc., we are mistaken.Because of the quid pro quos associated with each source of funding one accepts to pay oneself to do studies, the design conforms to that outcome which will continue to disclose something about IBS but in a way that does not run contrary to the interests of that funding source. If not, the source will not renew the funding when the next application is submitted. Who cuts their own income or perquisites intentionally?So this is a big reason for the non-integration of the work...right now there is no commercial enterprise which would sand to benefit from this which has the funds to commit to this type of wide ranging, exhaustive, and expensive investigation. So, as the late Sara Peller once declared "It's parts. It's pieces. Pieces-parts."Hey, on the other hand, today who cares? The Dolphins gave us Club Seats
for the playoff game with the CROWS, uh sorry , RAVENS. So it is OFF TO MIAMI to claim my seat and my ****tail!!! [NOTE: THAT WORD edited by the program is a euphamism for an alcoholic beverage LOL. Guardians of Virtue ever vigilant!!!]Time to Barbecue some Birds from Baltimore!Ya'll have a fun day!Eat well. Think well. Be well. RUN, well, Like HELL!!!, Lamar. [INSIDE Lamar, INSIDE...]MNL
 
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