[eric]

Aussie, here you go.

Auccurate IBS info and what the researchers know about it. http://www.fdhn.org/html/education/gi/ibs_guide.html http://www.fdhn.org/html/education/gi/ibs_nosology.htm http://www.fdhn.org/html/education/gi/ibs_diagnosis.html

 

[ohnometo]

Ohnoubigdummy

I wanted to say a decrease in symptoms So far I havent been in the hospital and it's been over a month now..I feel like I am improving but still have a way to go...I have been listening to the hypno tape and that's working with the anxiety of Oh My God here I go getting sick again

This has been a 40 year battle and I know it wont get better over night ...Smack my finger !!!

I have started back up with my food diary .

 

[ohnometo]

Ohnoubigdummy

I wanted to say a decrease in symptoms So far I havent been in the hospital and it's been over a month now..I feel like I am improving but still have a way to go...I have been listening to the hypno tape and that's working with the anxiety of Oh My God here I go getting sick again

This has been a 40 year battle and I know it wont get better over night ...Smack my finger !!!

I have started back up with my food diary .

 

[Nicol]

Just wondering if you have been tested for shingles? You are supposed to get a rash with them but I had shingles without a rash so it could be a possibility.

 

[Nicol]

Just wondering if you have been tested for shingles? You are supposed to get a rash with them but I had shingles without a rash so it could be a possibility.

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

Aussie....comment:I LOVE

whenever someone posts this all the time as the preamble to their references: ________________________________________"Accurate IBS info and what the researchers know about it." _________________________________________Is this to suggest that any other information is innately "inaccurate?"

And one should read that second section vis a vis "THE researchers", which suggests there are no others except those which author his references, to "SOME researchers", as there are many others who posess additional findings and additional postulates which are not referenced."Accurate" is not synonymous with "complete", especially in the case of investigations and postulates about IBS or other "syndromes" and diseases which are in the phase of understanding where they are still being labelled "functional". This is just a catch word which means "we have not found the/or all of the causes yet". So it denotes conditions wherein medical sciences' understanding is clearly incomplete.Now do not permit my words to be manipulated to suggest some sinister motive other than EXACTLY what I say. This is NOT by any stretch of the imagination to dispute the findings of the investigators someone quotes or to derogate anybody anywhere. period.On the contrary I personally pay close attention to their work as well, as do the doctors I work with, as their work produces pieces of the puzzle.Their finidings certainly valid, and some of their theories are also potentially valid, and some may ultimately be proved correct under specific conditions, otheres not. Same for anyones theories or prognostications.On the other hand the work referenced in a VACUUM from the findings of some other investigators decades of privately-funded work, clinically and otherwise, who approach the IBS symptom sets from a different angle so they often find different and/or additional things the referenced groups do not find is thus incomplete. The words "the" and "accurate" and what this denotes are wholly inappropriate in this context.So I would suggest to you and all other readers, and any newcomers et al to whom it is intimated that there is a some single source of factual information, a single source of valid information, and sole valid and truthful source of research on the symptoms we associate with IBS, or that there is a single set of theories about etiology which are valid, that you are simply being misled.We must all collectively, patients, practitioners, and researchers, broaden the scope of our view. The history of the evolution of progress in medicine in coming to understand what "syndromes" actually are, and the underlying "diseases" which are finally isolated, proves that the wide angle view is not only desireable but requisite. One must go beyond the quid pro quos and speciality-driven predipositions that individual investigators or groups are driven by, and integrate ALL the myriad findings about a "syndrome" and the different patient populations which are sadi to suffer the "syndrome" to get to the underlying causal basis.This is an inescapable fact, and every time it is not acknowledged and not accepted, progress slows.Eat well. THINK Well. Be well.

MNL

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

Aussie....comment:I LOVE

whenever someone posts this all the time as the preamble to their references: ________________________________________"Accurate IBS info and what the researchers know about it." _________________________________________Is this to suggest that any other information is innately "inaccurate?"

And one should read that second section vis a vis "THE researchers", which suggests there are no others except those which author his references, to "SOME researchers", as there are many others who posess additional findings and additional postulates which are not referenced."Accurate" is not synonymous with "complete", especially in the case of investigations and postulates about IBS or other "syndromes" and diseases which are in the phase of understanding where they are still being labelled "functional". This is just a catch word which means "we have not found the/or all of the causes yet". So it denotes conditions wherein medical sciences' understanding is clearly incomplete.Now do not permit my words to be manipulated to suggest some sinister motive other than EXACTLY what I say. This is NOT by any stretch of the imagination to dispute the findings of the investigators someone quotes or to derogate anybody anywhere. period.On the contrary I personally pay close attention to their work as well, as do the doctors I work with, as their work produces pieces of the puzzle.Their finidings certainly valid, and some of their theories are also potentially valid, and some may ultimately be proved correct under specific conditions, otheres not. Same for anyones theories or prognostications.On the other hand the work referenced in a VACUUM from the findings of some other investigators decades of privately-funded work, clinically and otherwise, who approach the IBS symptom sets from a different angle so they often find different and/or additional things the referenced groups do not find is thus incomplete. The words "the" and "accurate" and what this denotes are wholly inappropriate in this context.So I would suggest to you and all other readers, and any newcomers et al to whom it is intimated that there is a some single source of factual information, a single source of valid information, and sole valid and truthful source of research on the symptoms we associate with IBS, or that there is a single set of theories about etiology which are valid, that you are simply being misled.We must all collectively, patients, practitioners, and researchers, broaden the scope of our view. The history of the evolution of progress in medicine in coming to understand what "syndromes" actually are, and the underlying "diseases" which are finally isolated, proves that the wide angle view is not only desireable but requisite. One must go beyond the quid pro quos and speciality-driven predipositions that individual investigators or groups are driven by, and integrate ALL the myriad findings about a "syndrome" and the different patient populations which are sadi to suffer the "syndrome" to get to the underlying causal basis.This is an inescapable fact, and every time it is not acknowledged and not accepted, progress slows.Eat well. THINK Well. Be well.

MNL

 

[angry]

MikeNoLoI think you are absolutely right. The process of classifying something like a syndrome by symptoms is only the first step in the discovery process. Often this macroview leads to classification errors of inclusion and exclusion.I remember how biologists classified things before DNA to develop an evolutionary tree. After the tool of DNA anaylsis became available, many errors of classification were discovered. Much more understanding of the evolutionary process was also garnered.I am glad to see that they are beginning to discover different underlying features associated with IBS(d) and IBS©. To me, it has always been counterintuitive to consider them the same "disease". It is essential that these kinds of things be nailed down to obtain properly targeted cures-- unless one is satisified by throwning darts and achieving a hit by accident. To do this sufficiently sophisticated tools are required, they have to put aside biases, realize that classification schemes are subject to error and LOOK.

 

[angry]

MikeNoLoI think you are absolutely right. The process of classifying something like a syndrome by symptoms is only the first step in the discovery process. Often this macroview leads to classification errors of inclusion and exclusion.I remember how biologists classified things before DNA to develop an evolutionary tree. After the tool of DNA anaylsis became available, many errors of classification were discovered. Much more understanding of the evolutionary process was also garnered.I am glad to see that they are beginning to discover different underlying features associated with IBS(d) and IBS©. To me, it has always been counterintuitive to consider them the same "disease". It is essential that these kinds of things be nailed down to obtain properly targeted cures-- unless one is satisified by throwning darts and achieving a hit by accident. To do this sufficiently sophisticated tools are required, they have to put aside biases, realize that classification schemes are subject to error and LOOK.

 

[eric]

Angry here is a couple pages on some of the issues they are looking at, one is a summuary page from Med students in IBS. IBS is so complicated its unreal really and there is a lot of work that needs to be done for sure.One thing is a fact the brain and the gut are both operative in IBS. http://www.cgf.gu.se/fouschema.html http://www.macmcm.com/pcp/pcp2000_01.htm http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/symposium.html

 

[eric]

Angry here is a couple pages on some of the issues they are looking at, one is a summuary page from Med students in IBS. IBS is so complicated its unreal really and there is a lot of work that needs to be done for sure.One thing is a fact the brain and the gut are both operative in IBS. http://www.cgf.gu.se/fouschema.html http://www.macmcm.com/pcp/pcp2000_01.htm http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/symposium.html

 

[helen j]

As a new member, I'm a little raw in the protocals here, and perhaps the info i'm seeking is already posted in this fantastic but confusing maze.Isd there anybody or group who suffer the three. IBS, UC and Arthrits in tandem?????I'm particularly interested in the balances achieved through medications etc, and the fact that so many foods are alien. will get into more detail if people need specifics.Helen

 

[helen j]

As a new member, I'm a little raw in the protocals here, and perhaps the info i'm seeking is already posted in this fantastic but confusing maze.Isd there anybody or group who suffer the three. IBS, UC and Arthrits in tandem?????I'm particularly interested in the balances achieved through medications etc, and the fact that so many foods are alien. will get into more detail if people need specifics.Helen

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

Hi Angry.Eric teaches: _________________________________"One thing is a fact the brain and the gut are both operative in IBS." _________________________________??? Of course they are, I never heard anyone dispute that. If they were not then we would of course have no gut function much less dysfunction.

BUT So is it a fact that the immune system, the endocrine system, the exocrine system, the circulatory system, the lymphatic system, and other integrated subsystems of the body are all "operative in IBS" as well. The wide range of sometimes disparate findings, patient subpopulations with different symptom sets, the vagaries of patient selection for study as well as clinically depending upon the source of the patient observations by practice specialty, and the UNIVERSALLY INCOMPLETE physiologic assays performed in all so-called IBS studies...NO ONE has ever assayed all neural, immunologic, endocrinologic markers at the same time in the same patients selected the same way in an effort to capture the whole picture of at least ONE of the various patient subpopulations. Nobody has ever done it even once.Instead we have findings of all manner of abnormalities within each system, and the physiologic markers appurtenant thereunto, within all manner of selection criteria for subjects.So to even get a glimmer of the phsyiology and etiology of each subpopulation we have to find everything that was done from each diffrent type of investigation on patients which appear to have been selected to at least have the same symptoms sets and try to integrate those findings collectively, and integrate them with what they mean from what science knows about each phenomenon uncovered. If we do not, and start making pronouncements in terms of the absolute, this is the "accurate" inforamation, this is "the researcher" or "the cause" etc., we are mistaken.Because of the quid pro quos associated with each source of funding one accepts to pay oneself to do studies, the design conforms to that outcome which will continue to disclose something about IBS but in a way that does not run contrary to the interests of that funding source. If not, the source will not renew the funding when the next application is submitted. Who cuts their own income or perquisites intentionally?So this is a big reason for the non-integration of the work...right now there is no commercial enterprise which would sand to benefit from this which has the funds to commit to this type of wide ranging, exhaustive, and expensive investigation. So, as the late Sara Peller once declared "It's parts. It's pieces. Pieces-parts."Hey, on the other hand, today who cares? The Dolphins gave us Club Seats

for the playoff game with the CROWS, uh sorry , RAVENS. So it is OFF TO MIAMI to claim my seat and my ****tail!!! [NOTE: THAT WORD edited by the program is a euphamism for an alcoholic beverage LOL. Guardians of Virtue ever vigilant!!!]Time to Barbecue some Birds from Baltimore!Ya'll have a fun day!Eat well. Think well. Be well. RUN, well, Like HELL!!!, Lamar. [INSIDE Lamar, INSIDE...]MNL

 

[Mike NoLomotil]

Hi Angry.Eric teaches: _________________________________"One thing is a fact the brain and the gut are both operative in IBS." _________________________________??? Of course they are, I never heard anyone dispute that. If they were not then we would of course have no gut function much less dysfunction.

BUT So is it a fact that the immune system, the endocrine system, the exocrine system, the circulatory system, the lymphatic system, and other integrated subsystems of the body are all "operative in IBS" as well. The wide range of sometimes disparate findings, patient subpopulations with different symptom sets, the vagaries of patient selection for study as well as clinically depending upon the source of the patient observations by practice specialty, and the UNIVERSALLY INCOMPLETE physiologic assays performed in all so-called IBS studies...NO ONE has ever assayed all neural, immunologic, endocrinologic markers at the same time in the same patients selected the same way in an effort to capture the whole picture of at least ONE of the various patient subpopulations. Nobody has ever done it even once.Instead we have findings of all manner of abnormalities within each system, and the physiologic markers appurtenant thereunto, within all manner of selection criteria for subjects.So to even get a glimmer of the phsyiology and etiology of each subpopulation we have to find everything that was done from each diffrent type of investigation on patients which appear to have been selected to at least have the same symptoms sets and try to integrate those findings collectively, and integrate them with what they mean from what science knows about each phenomenon uncovered. If we do not, and start making pronouncements in terms of the absolute, this is the "accurate" inforamation, this is "the researcher" or "the cause" etc., we are mistaken.Because of the quid pro quos associated with each source of funding one accepts to pay oneself to do studies, the design conforms to that outcome which will continue to disclose something about IBS but in a way that does not run contrary to the interests of that funding source. If not, the source will not renew the funding when the next application is submitted. Who cuts their own income or perquisites intentionally?So this is a big reason for the non-integration of the work...right now there is no commercial enterprise which would sand to benefit from this which has the funds to commit to this type of wide ranging, exhaustive, and expensive investigation. So, as the late Sara Peller once declared "It's parts. It's pieces. Pieces-parts."Hey, on the other hand, today who cares? The Dolphins gave us Club Seats

for the playoff game with the CROWS, uh sorry , RAVENS. So it is OFF TO MIAMI to claim my seat and my ****tail!!! [NOTE: THAT WORD edited by the program is a euphamism for an alcoholic beverage LOL. Guardians of Virtue ever vigilant!!!]Time to Barbecue some Birds from Baltimore!Ya'll have a fun day!Eat well. Think well. Be well. RUN, well, Like HELL!!!, Lamar. [INSIDE Lamar, INSIDE...]MNL

 

[Nicol]

Helen did you know that arthritis is a side effect of IBD? If you get your UC under control then your arthritis will ease up on you. I have IBS, Crohn's and Arthritis. When my CD flares, my arthritis does as well.

 

[Nicol]

Helen did you know that arthritis is a side effect of IBD? If you get your UC under control then your arthritis will ease up on you. I have IBS, Crohn's and Arthritis. When my CD flares, my arthritis does as well.